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Kronos Tutorial: 17 Loop Recording in Ableton (ambient) QR
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Kronos Tutorial: 17 Loop Recording in Ableton (ambient) QR Reply with quote

Kronos Tutorial 17: Kronos loop Recording in Ableton Live with the Magical Clouds Sound Set
(use the 1080p quality to read the screens)

In this tutorial i show how to setup an external instrument in Ableton Live for the Kronos and assign it to 64 free audio loop pads

Magical Clouds Sound Set Demo
First part is a demo of the Magical Clouds sound set where i show how to use ableton as a hardware loop recorder. I didn't have a demo yet from the magical clouds sound set so this is the first demo of those sounds. If you already have the magical suite sound set than you also have these sounds which you can find in program locations UDD-064 - UDD-127. If you only have the magical clouds sound set then the program locations are UDD-000 - UDD-63. I've included the program names for referral purposes.


The following things are shown:
- record a loop to a pad
- deleting a loop from a pad and record it again
- modifying Volume, EQ and audio effects from a loop through the Hardware controller (i use the Ableton Push Controller for this)
- enabling / disabling several audio loops to build up your song


Tutorial: Ableton and Kronos integration
Second part is the tutorial Where i show how to set up the environment to support loop recording for the Kronos in Ableton Live (starting at 08:15)

The following things are shown:
- creating an external instrument which is connected to the Kronos
- creating 8 audio channels
- adding a reverb to the audio channel
- how to set up the Input / output routing of the External instrument and the audio channels
- how to get your loop recordings in sync (4 bar method)
- how to modify the default trigger system of a pads to support the enabling / disabling from the hardware controller

Keep in mind that although i use ableton live with a push controller for this, you could do the same with Loopy HD on an ipad (also a loop recorder for the ipad) or with any other hardware controller that's connected to ableton and support enabling / disabling pads.




Hope this helps Cool



For reference purposes, here are the other 16 tutorials
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Tutorial: 01 KARMA Introduction - How to program your first KARMA Arpeggiator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvAZqstk5E8

Tutorial: 02 Clusters - How to program Polyphonic Arpeggiators in KARMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSXNL8-ZHFU

Tutorial: 03 Using the Sequencer for recording combis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djRsZihhSIQ

Ttutorial: 04 Sampling Omnisphere in the Kronos Sampler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nURLCUGAzTw

Tutorial: 05 Sidechaining and Compression
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCZfox4VwAk

Tutorial: 06 Using Backing Tracks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edzVvnGccgc

Tutorial: 07 Setup Kronos And VST Instruments for Live Performance and Recording (Internal Summing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd23OjFZjz8

Tutorial: 08 Using Existing KARMA Modules
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrqRgIexH94

Tutorial: 09 Wave Sequences (Motion Pads)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv3aIfpq2h4

Tutorial: 10 IPAD Music App Synth Arp & Drum Pad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6-AuyfSno

Tutorial: 11 Programming an AL-1 Lead QR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDA3k3O9ibE

Tutorial: 12 Step Sequencer and Patterns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt_L_mm9-CQ

Tutorial: 13 MS-20 Patch Panel Programming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv7O95Gc2EY

Tutorial: 14 Creating your own combi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7frcN8ASFk0

Tutorial: 15 KARMA KK, Custom GEs and building a Combi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiYVPk9uZqo

Tutorial: 16 Arpeggiator Up & Down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_alCRjg8w4
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Ksynth
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superb Qui, thanks. Looking at he details now.

Having watched the video I wonder how you change the length of the loops in Live? Or are they just free length?

Or were you using Push to do that (I missed your movements if you did - I know Push can set loop length by selecting the right hand side buttons etc)

Also like your Push stand over the Kronos - self made?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always a pleasure to welcome your video, I'll check it out, thanks very much ^^
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Amos922
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! Push looks very powerful!
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Lou
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Video refuses to play in any of the quality modes. All others load and play well? Been waiting for this one! Thanks..

edit:
3 am, .. working now.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so the first external instrument track is solely used for sound I/O and the reverb helps eliminate the audio cutting abruptly as the clip rolls from end to start.
One thing I wasn't sure of was why set the Global quantize to 4 bars as opposed to leaving it to 1 bar?

Thanks Qui, this was well done.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ksynth wrote:

Having watched the video I wonder how you change the length of the loops in Live? Or are they just free length?

Or were you using Push to do that (I missed your movements if you did - I know Push can set loop length by selecting the right hand side buttons etc)

this works even better then setting a custom loop length upfront through the push, In the video tutorial you see me setting a Bar length, i've changed this from 1 bar to 4 bars.

Now if you watch the video closely you see me enter the patterns by pressing the pad once for recording and pressing it again to stop the loop recording. Now the fun part is that the bar length determines the loop length as a multiplier. So if i 'stop' the recording for bar 4 then the loop length is 4 bars. If i stop the recording on bar 6 for instance the loop length is 8 bars, etc...

Through this technique you can record loops in any length per clip (pad).

so with:
- a bar length of 4 you can record loops of length: 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, etc...
- a bar length of 1 you can record loops of length: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc...

Really powerful because everything stays in sync. Personally i find the Bar 4 length the most convenient to work with. You can set this bar length at the left top of the project screen in ableton live.



Ksynth wrote:

Also like your Push stand over the Kronos - self made?

no, it's a stand called Brada from Ikea, i use it for all my racksynths and controllers. It's really cheap, only 4 euro !

see:
http://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/20212497/#/60150176


Lou wrote:
Okay, so the first external instrument track is solely used for sound I/O and the reverb helps eliminate the audio cutting abruptly as the clip rolls from end to start.
One thing I wasn't sure of was why set the Global quantize to 4 bars as opposed to leaving it to 1 bar?

yes, correctly, i kept this tutorial simple so that every version of ableton can be setup this way. I will add a new tutorial in the near future for the ableton live suite 9 users which have Max4Live to show how to setup the automation integration with the kronos which you need Max4Live for.

The global quantize isn't quantization, it's the bar length for you loops, see the explanation above this reply.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, correctly, i kept this tutorial simple so that every version of ableton can be setup this way. I will add a new tutorial in the near future for the ableton live suite 9 users which have Max4Live to show how to setup the automation integration with the kronos which you need Max4Live for.

That is excellent news. Look forward to that.

If you could just add some thought control that would be nice too.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ksynth wrote:

Also like your Push stand over the Kronos - self made?

no, it's a stand called Brada from Ikea, i use it for all my racksynths and controllers. It's really cheap, only 4 euro !

see:
http://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/20212497/#/60150176

But I wondered how did you attach it to the Kronos? That is not so obvious in the video. Sorry for the distraction.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ksynth wrote:

Also like your Push stand over the Kronos - self made?

no, it's a stand called Brada from Ikea, i use it for all my racksynths and controllers. It's really cheap, only 4 euro !

see:
http://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/20212497/#/60150176

But I wondered how did you attach it to the Kronos? That is not so obvious in the video. Sorry for the distraction.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if it's attached to Kronos but I was wondering how it was standing vertical, that's what surprised me…

Thanks for the bar explanation, I didn't know it works this way.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Qui. I'm beginning to better understand the modular concept of Ableton and how Push integrates with it. Very cool stuff and a whole new way at approaching composition.

Two questions:

1. In a different thread you posted a screenshot where you instructed to insert an M4L device. Is that just for MIDI/KARMA purposes?

2. OK, so you have these loops able to toggle on/off at various points in the performance, how does one go about recording live a continuous lead on top of the looped segments and not be restrained by loop bar length. In other words, can you create a new track to play something and record it free style on top of (independent from) the loops?

Thanks.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ksynth wrote:
But I wondered how did you attach it to the Kronos?

Lou wrote:
I don't know if it's attached to Kronos but I was wondering how it was standing vertical, that's what surprised me…


Actually it's very easy, the Brada stand leans against the wall and on the Kronos, so it isn't attached to the Kronos. But this method was sturdy enough to use it this way.


TheoG wrote:
1. In a different thread you posted a screenshot where you instructed to insert an M4L device. Is that just for MIDI/KARMA purposes?

good question, that screenshot can only be used by the people that have ableton live 9 Suite edition. That edition has an external program integrated called Max4Live (M4L), that's a programming environment where you can build your synths, effects and midi effects.

If you want to have automation possibilities for the Kronos you need to use a M4L plugin to make that possible. In the near future i will add a tutorial of how to do this in ableton, but this tutorial is intended for every version of ableton. So i deliberately left that part out to make it usable for everyone that uses a version of ableton.


TheoG wrote:

2. OK, so you have these loops able to toggle on/off at various points in the performance, how does one go about recording live a continuous lead on top of the looped segments and not be restrained by loop bar length. In other words, can you create a new track to play something and record it free style on top of (independent from) the loops?

actually you can, the Bar 4 length create loops that are multiples of 4 bars length. That's the beauty of this method. You can create any loop length but it will always stay in sync. The point where you press the record pad again (for the second time) determines the first endpoint of the current 4 bar loop length. So there is no limit to the length of a loop.

an example:
- let's say i want to record a Pad sound of 4 bars length (16 beats), i press the pad record and play the part, but before the 4 bars end i press the pad again. Now it stops recording exactly at the end of the 4th bar.
- Now i record a bassline of 8 bars length (32 beats), i press pad record and play the part but before the 8 bar ends (so the pad was running for the second time) i press the pad again, now i have a loop of 8 bars.
- then i want to record a lead of 128 bars, i press pad record and play the lead in the song as long as i will,when i'm done and press the pad again at bar 127 it will automatically stop at bar 128 (because 128 can be divided by 4). Then it will loop again and everything is in sync. Now if you want to use it in a song, you could set the TRIGGER mode of that melody lead pad to Trigger, that means that it will only play once. But that's more how ableton works instead of this method.


One thing that i left out of the tutorial is that this whole system also could work with midi, in this tutorial i only use audio loops because everyone understands how easy it is to capture your ideas with this method. But you could exactly do the same in combi or sequencer mode, and record only the midi information so that the loop will play the midi part through your kronos.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work Qui.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QuiRobinez wrote:


One thing that i left out of the tutorial is that this whole system also could work with midi, in this tutorial i only use audio loops
because everyone understands how easy it is to capture your ideas with this method.

Thanks, the looped clips method worked very well and following your setup made it easy to record audio clips. The 4 bar technique was clever!
I would prefer the midi setup because my keyboard skills are not very good and I can then very easily quantize.
But,
What I did was set the first channel as the external instrument I/O and then set up a couple of midi tracks and worked from combi mode.
I tried setting up a few different ways but midi tracks loose the faders, pans and fx and have to be controlled from Kronos loosing all of Pushes functionality.
If I place external instruments on the midi tracks I get back the faders and pans but they do not control Kronos, you have to do it all it from the Kronos control panel.
Am I not seeing something or is this how it has to be when using midi?
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