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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: |
Until KRONOS allows full editing of all synth engines from Combi and Song mode, no editor, no matter how userfriendly will improve the workflow. |
Yes, it's indeed incredible how KORG never changed this deficiency of their user structure in their flagship synths to this day. Competitors like Yamaha are offering this crucial option in their flagship synths since the late eighties!
The current Korg user structure is completely out of date and destined for ruin...
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Dany,
But Yamaha synths like EX series and Motifs didn't allow that, until Motif XS. The drums editing wasn't added until Motif XF.
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Ojustaboo wrote: | | Shakil wrote: |
As I mentioned for Editor 1. The main problem is KRONOS architecture, not the Editor itself. Until KRONOS allows full editing of all synth engines from Combi and Song mode, no editor, no matter how userfriendly will improve the workflow. |
if soundquest had written a 64 bit version of the plugin this problem wouldn't exist.
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How do you know that. Even if the plugin editor was 64bit, you wouldn't be able to edit the programs from the Combi/Sequencer mode. The plugin editor is a remote control, so all editing is actually done on KRONOS. If the KRONOS doesn't allow editing while in sequencer mode, the editor's userfriendliness doesn't make a difference.
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Shakil wrote: | | Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: |
Until KRONOS allows full editing of all synth engines from Combi and Song mode, no editor, no matter how userfriendly will improve the workflow. |
Yes, it's indeed incredible how KORG never changed this deficiency of their user structure in their flagship synths to this day. Competitors like Yamaha are offering this crucial option in their flagship synths since the late eighties!
The current Korg user structure is completely out of date and destined for ruin...
- |
Dany,
But Yamaha synths like EX series and Motifs didn't allow that, until Motif XS. The drums editing wasn't added until Motif XF. |
I didn't know that, because I never owned a Motif. But my Yamaha SY-77 workstation/synth flagship from 1989 and later my SY-99 from 1991 (which I still own) are offering this option, included drum editing!
They were obviously far ahead of the times and still are...
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: | | Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: |
Until KRONOS allows full editing of all synth engines from Combi and Song mode, no editor, no matter how userfriendly will improve the workflow. |
Yes, it's indeed incredible how KORG never changed this deficiency of their user structure in their flagship synths to this day. Competitors like Yamaha are offering this crucial option in their flagship synths since the late eighties!
The current Korg user structure is completely out of date and destined for ruin...
- |
Dany,
But Yamaha synths like EX series and Motifs didn't allow that, until Motif XS. The drums editing wasn't added until Motif XF. |
I didn't know that, because I never owned a Motif. But my Yamaha SY-77 workstation/synth flagship from 1989 and later my SY-99 from 1991 (which I still own) are offering this option, included drum editing!
They were obviously far ahead of the times and still are...
- |
Do you mean you can edit the individual patches in full from the combi/song mode without stopping the sequencer?
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Shakil wrote: | | Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: | | Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: |
Until KRONOS allows full editing of all synth engines from Combi and Song mode, no editor, no matter how userfriendly will improve the workflow. |
Yes, it's indeed incredible how KORG never changed this deficiency of their user structure in their flagship synths to this day. Competitors like Yamaha are offering this crucial option in their flagship synths since the late eighties!
The current Korg user structure is completely out of date and destined for ruin...
- |
Dany,
But Yamaha synths like EX series and Motifs didn't allow that, until Motif XS. The drums editing wasn't added until Motif XF. |
I didn't know that, because I never owned a Motif. But my Yamaha SY-77 workstation/synth flagship from 1989 and later my SY-99 from 1991 (which I still own) are offering this option, included drum editing!
They were obviously far ahead of the times and still are...
- |
Do you mean you can edit the individual patches in full from the combi/song mode without stopping the sequencer? |
Yes! And it's even possible to adjust the effect send parameters of EACH individual drum sound in Multi and Seq Mode, which works only in Global Mode on the Kronos and OASYS!
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: | | Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: | | Dany wrote: | | Shakil wrote: |
Until KRONOS allows full editing of all synth engines from Combi and Song mode, no editor, no matter how userfriendly will improve the workflow. |
Yes, it's indeed incredible how KORG never changed this deficiency of their user structure in their flagship synths to this day. Competitors like Yamaha are offering this crucial option in their flagship synths since the late eighties!
The current Korg user structure is completely out of date and destined for ruin...
- |
Dany,
But Yamaha synths like EX series and Motifs didn't allow that, until Motif XS. The drums editing wasn't added until Motif XF. |
I didn't know that, because I never owned a Motif. But my Yamaha SY-77 workstation/synth flagship from 1989 and later my SY-99 from 1991 (which I still own) are offering this option, included drum editing!
They were obviously far ahead of the times and still are...
- |
Do you mean you can edit the individual patches in full from the combi/song mode without stopping the sequencer? |
Yes! And it's even possible to adjust the effect send parameters of EACH individual drum sound in Multi and Seq Mode, which works only in Global Mode on the Kronos and OASYS!
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That's great! This is one of the reasons I didn't purchase OASYS or KRONOS.
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: |
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That's great indeed!  ...and the SY-99 user manual even tells us, why this function is crucial:
Quote from the Yamaha SY-99 user manual from page 189:
http://soundprogramming.net/manuals/Yamaha_SY99_Manual3.PDF
"Since the SY99's sequencer can be used at any time even while editing a voice or multi, you can use this function to edit one of the voices in a multi while that multi is being played from the sequencer.
This capability is very useful, since it allows you to edit a voice while it is being played in a musical context with other instruments."
PS: I realized that my OASYS can't do this, only AFTER its purchase, because I naively assumed to have this option on such an expensive flagship from 2005 as a matter of course, because I already was used to have those possibilities from my old Yamaha SY-77 since the year 1989!
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Dany wrote: | That's great indeed! ...and the SY-99 user manual even tells us, why this function is crucial:
Quote from the Yamaha SY-99 user manual from page 189:
http://soundprogramming.net/manuals/Yamaha_SY99_Manual3.PDF
"Since the SY99's sequencer can be used at any time even while editing a voice or multi, you can use this function to edit one of the voices in a multi while that multi is being played from the sequencer.
This capability is very useful, since it allows you to edit a voice while it is being played in a musical context with other instruments."
PS: I realized that my OASYS can't do this, only AFTER its purchase, because I naively assumed to have this option on such an expensive flagship from 2005 as a matter of course, because I already was used to have those possibilities from my old Yamaha SY-77 since the year 1989!
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Wow, I don't believe this. This is what I want... exactly the reason for need it... This capability is very useful, since it allows you to edit a voice while it is being played in a musical context with other instruments."
This is my workflow and this is why I still use Roland Fantom-G workstation.
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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SoundQuest
Full Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 196
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Midi Quest does have additional features compared to UniQuest so those will be available to the Kronos editor. Beyond that, I don't believe I can comment at this time.
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Michael Lambie
Sound Quest Inc. |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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SoundQuest, with all due respect,
64bit compatibility is no "additional feature". It is a basic music software standard nowadays. I can only warn your company and perhaps also Korg: do not try to make a deal by separating 64bit functionality from the basic editor and only deliver it with MidiQuestXL.
This would create a high degree of embarrassement and anger from Kronos customers, after all the limited functionality of editor and plugin, and all the delays we have seen so far. It might rather lead to a complete boycott of your product line by many Kronos users, if you put more oil into the fire of an already heated situation, than offer an acceptable solution.
64bit functionality belongs to the BASIC requirements of this editor, so don't create a lose-lose situation instead of a win-win situation.
I'm always ready to pay for significant extras concerning the workflow of the editor (like streamlined GUIs for the 9 engines and the like), but I certainly won't get fooled paying extra money for basic functionality.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think we need to sepcify if we are refering to the stand alone editor, or the DAW plugin.
I agree that 64bit version of the DAW plugin is a must. Hopefully, the 3rd party software that's causing issues with requirement of large amount of data for KRONOS within DAW, will remove the 1MB limit, OR KORG will change the architecture so that each Combi/Song can store it's own version of 16 programs, mixer, and effects settings, reducing the data requiredment for total recall.
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Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Where has the orginal Soundquest post about a 64bit version gone?
Soundquest?
Just for the record:
The post stated that there will be a 64bit version of the Kronos editor/plugin, and it will be available in MidiQuest XL.
Have I overlooked anything? I can't find it any more. If it was deleted:
Iit is NOT ok from my view to delete a post after others refer to it. Sharp?
@Shakil:
so the problem is not that it is not possible to deliver a 64bit version, but that it looks like we should not get it as part of the Kronos package. This all looks extremely weird to me.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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Shakil
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
Posts: 1169
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| SoundQuest wrote: | | Midi Quest does have additional features compared to UniQuest so those will be available to the Kronos editor. Beyond that, I don't believe I can comment at this time. |
What does this mean?
Do you mean that the editor and plugin given with KRONOS are based on UniQuest? And UniQuest can't run as 64bit version plugin? Or SoundQuest will allow us to edit individual programs and drumskit without having to jump to program and global modes on KRONOS?
_________________
Roland Fantom-G6 ARX1, Korg M3-m exb-Radias, Korg Z1-18v, Roland MC-808, Roland MC-909, Korg microKontrol. |
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SoundQuest
Full Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 196
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Shakil wrote: | | SoundQuest wrote: | | Midi Quest does have additional features compared to UniQuest so those will be available to the Kronos editor. Beyond that, I don't believe I can comment at this time. |
What does this mean?
Do you mean that the editor and plugin given with KRONOS are based on UniQuest? And UniQuest can't run as 64bit version plugin? Or SoundQuest will allow us to edit individual programs and drumskit without having to jump to program and global modes on KRONOS? |
What this means is, just as a number of major DAW manufacturers have multiple levels of product, Sound Quest has 3 levels of librarian (UniQuest, Midi Quest, Midi Quest XL). Each step up adds capabilities to the editing environment.
How editing is performed on an instrument is defined by that instrument. In the case of the Kronos, to edit programs, you have to be in program mode. To edit Drum Kits, you have to be in Global mode. There is nothing that the editor can do to change this.
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Michael Lambie
Sound Quest Inc. |
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SoundQuest
Full Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 196
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | Where has the orginal Soundquest post about a 64bit version gone?
Soundquest?
Just for the record:
The post stated that there will be a 64bit version of the Kronos editor/plugin, and it will be available in MidiQuest XL.
Have I overlooked anything? I can't find it any more. If it was deleted:
Iit is NOT ok from my view to delete a post after others refer to it. Sharp?
@Shakil:
so the problem is not that it is not possible to deliver a 64bit version, but that it looks like we should not get it as part of the Kronos package. This all looks extremely weird to me. |
There are so many different threads, I couldn't tell you where it is. You'll simply have to look for it. I didn't delete it. And yes, that is what was written.
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Michael Lambie
Sound Quest Inc. |
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