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herbsch
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:23 am Post subject: another question about live environment and levels |
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I know there are some posts about Kronos Audio level and live setup up but the answers did not fit for me and so i decided to ask this questions:
1.) Should I press or not the -20dB Button of my SM Audio Pro DI8E in conjunction with my Kronos?
2.) What do you think is the "optimal" level (shown on a mixer level meter) when playing in band context:
a) Pads
b) Organs
c) Piano
d) Brass
e) (Synth) Solos
f) ...
Thanks a lot for your suggestions, sharing your knowledge and your patience.
Herbert |
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ronnfigg
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2141
Location: CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Not sure about the -20dB Button of my SM Audio Pro DI8E, but when it comes to levels, your ears should be the final judge. Use the "optimal" level (shown on a mixer level meter) as a reference. A lot of factors come into play.
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Bob Moog |
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mathieumaes
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 430
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: |
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I try to find the maximum level during sound check by playing a regular piano using lots of lower notes. That usually has the highest peak levels.
When it comes to question 2, much depends on the music you play, and can be variable.
I usually use my monitoring to set the volume by ear. Don't look at level meters, because it doesn't always makes sense in music.
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Also when soundchecking (monitors or PA for a PA company), always use the loudest volume to set the levels.
Once we played before an other band. The mixer of the other band used our bands to levelling the PA. However, when they played they turned up the speakers resulting in lots of whistle tones (sorry don't know the English term for it). It's like the sound is going through the mics back to the speaker resulting in a very high and unpleasent almost single frequency tone.
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jeebustrain
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Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1284
Location: In a Roger Dean painting
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: |
Once we played before an other band. The mixer of the other band used our bands to levelling the PA. However, when they played they turned up the speakers resulting in lots of whistle tones (sorry don't know the English term for it). It's like the sound is going through the mics back to the speaker resulting in a very high and unpleasent almost single frequency tone. |
feedback?
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jeebustrain wrote: | | michelkeijzers wrote: |
Once we played before an other band. The mixer of the other band used our bands to levelling the PA. However, when they played they turned up the speakers resulting in lots of whistle tones (sorry don't know the English term for it). It's like the sound is going through the mics back to the speaker resulting in a very high and unpleasent almost single frequency tone. |
feedback? |
Thanks yes that was the word I was looking for.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: another question about live environment and levels |
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As others have already noted, question 2 is up to taste, depends on the context and so on. The only important thing is to give the sound guy the maximum expectable level during play, to allow for proper gain adjustment. This applies especially for digital mixing consoles.
| herbsch wrote: |
1.) Should I press or not the -20dB Button of my SM Audio Pro DI8E in conjunction with my Kronos? |
Here, one could also lean back and say "It depends..." - which is true, but there are some valid statements that can help the decision.
First of all, ask the sound guy what level he expects (mic or line). In most cases, mic level is expected or at least accepted. You already provide mic level in 90% of the cases if you use a DI - but unfortunately I'm not sure with the DI8E.
Second: A first try should be made with the button unpressed (no -20dB pad). If the mixer guy tells you your signal is too "hot", press it. If you press it in advance (without being told), you unnecessarily lose signal-to-noise ratio.
The rest is just knowledge, which can help to find the best solution quicker during soundcheck.
- There are two "standards" for line levels: -10dBV and +4dBu (~ 1.8 dBV). The Kronos delivers +4dBu (the "hotter" one) max. - so expect to have higher levels than other keyboardists.
- Check if the DI8E can manage this high level on its inputs. If not, set the volume knob well below max.
- In general, it's better to have the highest possible level (but allowing a good amount of headroom) on every part of the signal chain. So it's better to pad near the end of the signal chain than on the beginnig - unless parts of the signal chain require lower levels.
- There's one big exception: Even if a mixing console is capable of handling high level line input, many sound techs will ask you to provide only mic level or slighty above at the stagebox. The reason is possible cross talk on (long) multicores, where very high line levels can interfere with very low mic levels. |
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RonF
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Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: another question about live environment and levels |
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| .Jens wrote: | As others have already noted, question 2 is up to taste, depends on the context and so on. The only important thing is to give the sound guy the maximum expectable level during play, to allow for proper gain adjustment. This applies especially for digital mixing consoles.
| herbsch wrote: |
1.) Should I press or not the -20dB Button of my SM Audio Pro DI8E in conjunction with my Kronos? |
Here, one could also lean back and say "It depends..." - which is true, but there are some valid statements that can help the decision.
First of all, ask the sound guy what level he expects (mic or line). In most cases, mic level is expected or at least accepted. You already provide mic level in 90% of the cases if you use a DI - but unfortunately I'm not sure with the DI8E.
Second: A first try should be made with the button unpressed (no -20dB pad). If the mixer guy tells you your signal is too "hot", press it. If you press it in advance (without being told), you unnecessarily lose signal-to-noise ratio.
The rest is just knowledge, which can help to find the best solution quicker during soundcheck.
- There are two "standards" for line levels: -10dBV and +4dBu (~ 1.8 dBV). The Kronos delivers +4dBu (the "hotter" one) max. - so expect to have higher levels than other keyboardists.
- Check if the DI8E can manage this high level on its inputs. If not, set the volume knob well below max.
- In general, it's better to have the highest possible level (but allowing a good amount of headroom) on every part of the signal chain. So it's better to pad near the end of the signal chain than on the beginnig - unless parts of the signal chain require lower levels.
- There's one big exception: Even if a mixing console is capable of handling high level line input, many sound techs will ask you to provide only mic level or slighty above at the stagebox. The reason is possible cross talk on (long) multicores, where very high line levels can interfere with very low mic levels. |
Right on! Cheers on that post!
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herbsch
Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you so much for sharing your know how.
Herbert |
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