Korg Forums

montequi · Joined: 07 May 2012 Posts: 1

I'd like to see a FULL Physical Modelling synth. That includes not only a virtual analog synth (like the MicroKorg), but what about all physical modeled instruments (piano, reed, wind, string, organ, guitar, etc..) instead of samples. I know Yamaha tried years ago, but technology is progressed tremendously since. Roland has a physically modeled piano (V-Piano), and there are physically modeled clonewheel organs as well. How far away are we from that?

Also, what about a keyboard interface like the Ondes Martenot that support finger vibrato from the keys and has a finger-ring on a pulley that supports bending of notes across the full keyboard. That should be doable TODAY, but I haven't seen any major keyboard manufacturer take that on. I think it would be groundbreaking!

michelkeijzers · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject:

I think the Kronos is well on its way. It has several modeled engines, and my perception is that Korg will expand these by either improving and/or add new modeled engines. It probably will be added in Kronos 2, 3 etc.

About the interface: very interesting; never new it existed.
I once heard a Theremin (in real life) but was not really that convinced; this seems a lot more interesting.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/

phattbuzz · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:22 am Post subject:

The Kronos is definitely on the right track. I wouldn't want to give up the sampling option, but I definitely want to see more physical modelling on it, including more synths and some modeled effects as well. Hopefully we'll see some of the expansions on this unit and not in the next generation.

The Ondes Martenot was indeed a very interesting instrument. I think the larger ribbon controllers are the closest thing to it, and you don't have to worry about moving the ring around to hit the next note. Theremins are much harder to play a melody on because you have to rely on your ear to know what pitch your hand is playing. You even have to control your breathing to a point so you don't move your hand when you shouldn't. Check out the Continuum (not sure if I spelled that right). You can play full chords on that instrument. It's like a ribbon with X, Y and Z parameters.
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Latest Set Up: Kronos 61, Casio Privia, Korg TR61, EoWave Ribbon, Roli Rise 48, TEC Breath Controller, StudioLogic MP-117 Bass Pedals, Moog Theremini.
Past Instruments of Construction: Hammond A100 w/Leslie 760, Korg R3, Roland AxSynth, Korg Poly61, Korg M1, Univox MaxiKorg, Korg MS2000, (2) Moog Concertmate MG1, (2) Hammond X5, Rhodes Mark I & 2, Farfisa Compact, Yamaha S08, Casio SK1, Strymon Mobius, Custom Bass Pedals, Burns B3 Theremin.

michelkeijzers · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:21 am Post subject:

[quote="phattbuzz"]The Kronos is definitely on the right track. I wouldn't want to give up the sampling option, but I definitely want to see more physical modelling on it, including more synths and some modeled effects as well. Hopefully we'll see some of the expansions on this unit and not in the next generation.

quote]

I'm almost sure Korg will continue its way of extending/improving physical modeling engines. Why would they call all engines XXX-1 ... I expect a 2, 3 etc in time. However probably it will not be in Kronos but in Kronos 2, 3, etc Smile

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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/

billbaker · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject:

To me, the crucial missing piece for modelling synths is an easy to use programming interface; for a modeled instrument that may mean that it's less model-able because the complexities ontop of physical properties on top of variations may well lead to the elusive "infinite variety" that synth makers have been touting for so long... And infinity includes a lot of garbage as well as masterpieces.

How do you (as a manufacturer/designer) ensure that the results are musical while satisfying the desire for something unique (as a user) beyond presets given an instrument that is so complex that not many can do even simple tweaks with predictable results?

You sited Yamaha's previous efforts in the field and they may still have reed and brass modeling covered (patented like FM was?) but the thing I recall most about that, and for that matter Formant synthesis and to a certain extent Kawai's additive engines was that they were dubbed "unusable" for the average player and either ignored or actively derided.

I've already seen posts about how "disappointing" the modeled strings are on the Kronos. It would seem a shame to rush to all modeled synthesis before ther was a very well thought out way to make the instruments user friendly.

BB
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billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
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ravenmek · Junior Member Joined: 13 Jan 2011 Posts: 85

you could, for example, have 2 user interfaces. One for musical, simple, "beginner" modifications to a sound, and one with the complete engine. In that way, you could just chose a preset of the "professional" programming, and modify it with the reduced interface.
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michelkeijzers · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject:

Kontrol49 · Platinum Member Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 1280

michelkeijzers · Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject:

ravenmek · Junior Member Joined: 13 Jan 2011 Posts: 85

I was a Computer Engineering student, so believe me, I know that designing and coding is not cheap and it's not simple. But is money well spended. Interface is really important for a software implementation, so, it could make it a successful one or a totally shitty program. And, as those parameters that are in the "novice" page are, almost all, surely part of the "advanced" interface, it will be almost a "mask", something hiding the big interface and using macro controllers. It wouldn't be a different interface completely, and it wouldn't take too much time in coding (it could, however, take a lot of time in the design phase). But it could well be a selling point, and an interesting one, in fact.
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--GEAR--AKAI Miniak, KORG Nanokontrol, nanoPad 2, KP3
--Past Gear-- NOVATION Xio, ENSONIQ ASR-10, YAMAHA SY35, SY77

michelkeijzers · Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:27 am Post subject:

ravenmek · Junior Member Joined: 13 Jan 2011 Posts: 85

The thing you are describing is exactly what I was talking about, and that's not difficult to do at all. In fact, many software implementations use "interface wizards", simplifing the thing even more. It could, on the other hand, has a lot of development in the designing phase, because you have to choose what parameter will be in the novice interface, and how to group them for them to be easy to understand.
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--GEAR--AKAI Miniak, KORG Nanokontrol, nanoPad 2, KP3
--Past Gear-- NOVATION Xio, ENSONIQ ASR-10, YAMAHA SY35, SY77

michelkeijzers · Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:11 am Post subject:

Chriskk · Senior Member Joined: 10 May 2011 Posts: 349