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arne v Full Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 195 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: tip: More power to your pianos |
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Hi,
I was unsure of posting this since there are no other post or comments on this, but in many of my combo`s and songs my piano (acoustic and electric) sounds "weak". I cant get the volume up so the sound sort of fades in the background or i have to adjust every other track to fit the piano volume and then the song sort of looses its punch.
My goal here was to make a piano for a jazz trio. To make the piano the "lead singer" so to speak.
I love the standard kronos piano, which imho is best suited for down beat ballads. I wanted a jazz piano a`la chick corea
First i have edited my Kronos Grand to have more of an "edge" then i copied EXi1 parameters to EXi2 and voilà..the sound becomes infront instead of in the back (2 pianos ontop of each other). The important thing here is to use the same piano sound on both EXi`es Not a kombination of piano1 bright and piano2 dark, because then you will get a strange distortion effect. The sound sort of crashes in the middle of your speakers
i also did this on some of my EP and they got a bit more aggressive, not some dull piano in the background. Add som detune and stereoeffect and you are ready to go!
Im a huge fan of Chick Corea and love his piano sound (both electric and acoustic). I finally made a pianosound that i liked
PS!This piano sound does not fit everyone, but it fits my style of playing and i want to share my experience with this insane instrument
[IMPORTANT EDIT] i forgot to mention check the key zone on the EXi2. This is set to bottom F#6 as default. set this to c-1.
.
Last edited by arne v on Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:35 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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michelkeijzers Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 9113 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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If you copy it without changes, isn't it the same as increasing the volume?
I assume the detune and stereo effect do the trick ... probably only a slight detune is needed, otherwise you probably get a honky tonk piano.
I use this 'trick' sometimes to fatten lead sounds (although the sounds in the Kronos are already very good).
Maybe an idea to regulate the detune/stereo effect by a slider so you can adjust the level of 'stereo spread'. _________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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xtatty Full Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Posts: 136 Location: Greece
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for sharing.
If you want us to try it out and give you our opinion about it,
give us a .pcg with the piano only inside or post it to http://korgpatches.com/ _________________ Korg Kronos LS
SSD1: 500GB (Samsung 850 EVO)
SSD2: 240GB (Crucial BX500)
Internal USB & LAN:
- Wireless Lan (WL-330N3G)
- Wireless USB keyboard receiver (Logitech) |
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jerrythek Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think I would do what you are suggesting. Doubling a Program using a lot of stereo samples streaming from disk is using a HUGE amount of system resources/polyphony, all in the desire to achieve what?
A louder sound? Try using a limiter on a TFX to boost your gain.
A punchier sound? Work with some EQ before the limiter.
Experiment with effects processing to get more from your paino - it'll be the best approach.
Regards,
Jerry |
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Mofit
Joined: 21 Nov 2011 Posts: 12 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Many times you can fix the problem with a sound being too feint by making the sound 'brighter,' meaning increasing the filter cutoff frequencies (for LPF), increasing resonance slightly, or jacking the 4k and higher EQs. When you start layering different piano multisamples together, you get overlapping frequencies, where both pianos give a lot of mid-range and lower-range frequencies. This can cause distortion, phasing, and other odd artifacts.
If something is not loud enough, then turn up the AMP. If it's loud, but not cutting through, think about frequencies and not amplitudes.
The problem also might be with other instruments in the mix. If the piano is competing with strings or guitar that have a considerable amount of similar frequencies, then the instruments can get lost in one another. Think about turning down frequencies of other instruments in order to bring forth the piano.
Just my two cents. _________________ Mofit
www.playkeyz.com
Gear:
Yamaha Motif ES7; Yamaha Motif XF8; Yamaha Motif XS7; Yamaha S70XS; Yamaha Motif XS Rack; Korg Kronos 73; Old, unreliable, tweaky, pissy-and-moany self-built PC. |
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xtatty Full Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Posts: 136 Location: Greece
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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I tried it and he is right!
I haven't got much time to test it, but my first impression was good!
After you place the second EXi , it automatically detunes it by 5 cents.
So the result is a very loud and punchy piano!
Yes, the work can be done with effects too but this is a simple and fast way and it sounds good! _________________ Korg Kronos LS
SSD1: 500GB (Samsung 850 EVO)
SSD2: 240GB (Crucial BX500)
Internal USB & LAN:
- Wireless Lan (WL-330N3G)
- Wireless USB keyboard receiver (Logitech) |
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arne v Full Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 195 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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hehe..thank you all for suggestions, but i have already tried the filters etc.
xtatty, i will upload the file to korgpatches asap
If you liked it try shortening the release to -18 and adjust the velocity bias to +009, lid position 0,47.
Piano type: German D 2 s
as i wrote this is a sound for a trio. I can play combi int-D0097 for a looong time.
The problem of just changing the effects is that when wanting a piano in a song or combi i have to always change the effects, and that takes to long .) |
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spo elman
Joined: 18 Oct 2011 Posts: 36
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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The problem of just changing the effects is that when wanting a piano in a song or combi i have to always change the effects, and that takes to long .)
Just copy from program, then you won't have to insert fx again, it's all done automatically |
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arne v Full Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 195 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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thanx but i already know that.
If i want to keep the original fx`s this does not work |
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Fred S Junior Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2011 Posts: 90 Location: Northern California
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Volume did increase. Worked well with the German. Also tried doubling the Rudess piano...not so much. _________________ Yamaha S90es, Hammond XK-1, Kronos 88, Gibson Les Paul, American Deluxe Strat, Taylor accoustic, Vox amp, Motion Sound Pro 145, KC-550s x2, a bunch of plugins, and a Kawai grand. |
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jerrythek Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Isn't it nice that there are so many choices/possibilities?
Until polyphony or performance become an issue, if it works for you, it's right. But in general I still offer that effects processing can achieve a lot, and is the best route to explore.
But you're happy, so I'm happy (for you) too!
Enjoy.
Jerry |
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arne v Full Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 195 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: |
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thank you Jerry, i do appreciate the feedback |
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michelkeijzers Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 9113 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:30 am Post subject: |
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jerrythek wrote: | I don't think I would do what you are suggesting. Doubling a Program using a lot of stereo samples streaming from disk is using a HUGE amount of system resources/polyphony, all in the desire to achieve what?
A louder sound? Try using a limiter on a TFX to boost your gain.
A punchier sound? Work with some EQ before the limiter.
Experiment with effects processing to get more from your paino - it'll be the best approach.
Regards,
Jerry |
Thanks for this advice (and from Mofit). _________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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arne v Full Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 195 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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added to korgpatches.com:
http://korgpatches.com/patches/kronos/
it was not easy saving just those 2 sounds (with an EP) so i saved them under user AA000 and user AA001. If i missed please let me know
regards arne v |
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polop Junior Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2011 Posts: 61
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Thanks _________________ KORG KRONOS 61 |
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