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Palaver_Sound
Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: Korg Kronos: Octave Switches in OS1.5? |
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Hi All,
Will Korg be addressing the octave problem in OS 1.5 with respect to the Kronos?
I've Googled this topic, but I can't seem to find an answer other than, "Program the SW1/SW2 switches for changing octaves." IMO, this simply isn't good enough.
It's a beautiful board, but from a performance stance, this is a glaring problem. I would love to get the 61-key model, but it seems like you can only assign the SW1/SW2 switches to go one octave (in either direction). Is this true? I've only demoed one board, and couldn't figure out how to implement this change... I apologize about asking such a simple question, but it only occurred to me today after playing one for about a half hour.
Hopefully, a representative can explain Korg's philosophy as to why this is left off the keyboard?
Thanks in advance,
Phil |
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EXer
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Location: France
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Korg Kronos: Octave Switches in OS1.5? |
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| Palaver_Sound wrote: | Will Korg be addressing the octave problem in OS 1.5 with respect to the Kronos?
I've Googled this topic, but I can't seem to find an answer other than, "Program the SW1/SW2 switches for changing octaves." IMO, this simply isn't good enough. |
I agree: SW1/SW2 should not have to be used to transpose the keyboard; they are too useful for other tasks (e.g. locking/unlocking the ribbon).
But I'm not sure how they could address that without adding 2 buttons on the panel. |
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RC-IA
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 971
Location: FR
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Just have to "draw" 2 tabs at the bottom of the screen in the OS, like on kurzweil. |
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X-Trade
Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 6494
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:32 am Post subject: |
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It's been the same on every other Korg workstation.
At least now there are plenty of control switches up on the control surface too now.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro |
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sani
Senior Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts: 354
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:24 am Post subject: |
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I'd really like someone to explain it to me, why those dedicated octave switches are so important. I play keyboards for twenty years and I had those with and without separate octave switches. I never used them. Regardless whether I play on a 61 or 88 keyboard, I do my splits and put every sound in the desired octave range.
Playing piano on a 61 keyboard can be difficult at times, but an octave switch certainly doesn't help me out of this situation. How could I be focused on what I play and at the same time switch between octaves back and forward and keep in mind where I am on that virtual shifted keyboard? For the rest of the sounds, whether they are acoustic or synth type, 5 octaves are more than enough to play them if a single patch is used across the whole keyboard. |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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There's a reason that Korg's micro range as well as the RADIAS has them - not enough keys. But on a workstation or a synth that has 61 keys or more, that's probably more than enough keys for any patch. You can edit the patch to "fit" the range you need but in the rare instance that you need more, you can use a button to give you an octave in either direction.
I have an 88 key, I don't see the need for octave switches. I also have 73 and 61 key keyboards, don't see the need for them there either.
_________________
Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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NuSkoolTone
Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I use it for ONE song, and that's simply because I didn't feel like writing another patch. I think they're useful, but not the catastrophe some are making it out to be. At least in my world!
_________________
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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polop
Junior Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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korg can add simply with press: Enter + Sw1 / Sw2  |
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Palaver_Sound
Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| RC-IA wrote: | | Just have to "draw" 2 tabs at the bottom of the screen in the OS, like on kurzweil. |
My thoughts exactly... Not having them completely defeats the purpose of having the 61-key. There are lead playing techniques that octave buttons are really handy for implementing.
It's such a simple fix! Even the "up" & and "down" arrows could be used!
There's a scroll wheel, sliders, and a pile of other ways to select a patch... but no octave switch? There's not really an excuse.
It's been years since I've dug around a Korg product. While demoing the Kronos, I could not figure out how to program octave switches for the life of me. Perhaps, I'm an idiot, but I found this frustrating while trying to navigate around the instrument. In fact, it made me appreciate the layout of the Kurzweil.
Hopefully, we can hear more about the 'octave' issue. Paying almost a grand extra for the 'not-so-portable' 88 key version is not really great advice.
I hate sounding like a nag, it really is a great product. However, I would love to have a wonderful 61-key master controller, but the lack of such a convenient feature is unfortunate.
Hopefully, we hear from Korg!
Cheers,
Phil |
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sani
Senior Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts: 354
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Palaver_Sound wrote: | | RC-IA wrote: | | Just have to "draw" 2 tabs at the bottom of the screen in the OS, like on kurzweil. |
My thoughts exactly... Not having them completely defeats the purpose of having the 61-key. There are lead playing techniques that octave buttons are really handy for implementing. |
We probably all have different ways how to do things. When I play a lead, I'm usually focused on what I play and which controllers I move/handle, being most often occupied with the joystick. But even on a 61 keyboard, there is really more than enough space to play a solo or whatever there is to play. It simply confuses me if I have to play something on the next but non existing octave and use the octave switch for that. I have completely to rethink how to play those parts because the intervals change in that occasion drastically. That's just my opinion. And if somebody has such a situation where he occasionally needs an octave switch, there is always the option to use one of the SW buttons to program it for the octave switch. The good part is even that you can decide whether the switch will act momentary or toggle the on/off status. Quite handy IMHO.
| Palaver_Sound wrote: | It's been years since I've dug around a Korg product. While demoing the Kronos, I could not figure out how to program octave switches for the life of me. Perhaps, I'm an idiot, but I found this frustrating while trying to navigate around the instrument. In fact, it made me appreciate the layout of the Kurzweil.
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As a matter of fact, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Korg and there is nothing really to appreciate the Kurzweil for. You are used to one instrument and switching to a new system simply requires you to learn how to use it. That's what the manuals are for. You have to read and learn how to do certain things. Give me a Kurzweil and I'm lost in space and time and nothing will make sense to me in the store. All those systems are different and one has to learn how things are done on a certain system.
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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You could use the octave switches as a playing technique more than as a way to expand the keyboard. I do this all the time for showy solos on my AX-Synth. Well, maybe not ALL the time 
Play a fast arpeggio up and/or down with an analog lead, and hit some octave switches along the way. You can't do that comfortably on the Kronos, even having a "full range" keyboard like the 88. |
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danmusician
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 875
Location: Southern PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sani wrote: | | I'd really like someone to explain it to me, why those dedicated octave switches are so important. |
This statement really shows the pressure that is on manufactures when designing a keyboard. Everyone has their own "must have" feature set. What matters to me may not matter to you. I took a grad class years ago that included a tour of the Ensoniq facilities. A room full of musicians kept asking the rep why doesn't keyboard X have feature Y? Answer: it comes down to economics. They can make a keyboard do anything, but have to decide how much they can afford to put in and still bring the keyboard in at a certain price point.
For me, gigging as a one-man-band, I need portability. My 01/W Pro with 76 keys was a compromise because I couldn't carry the Pro X due to size and weight. But all the years I played it, I wished that I could take a fourth off the top of the keyboard and add it to the bottom.
I got my M3 73 and loved the fact that it was a C-C keyboard. I play a lot in D and Eb and I often double 8va in my left hand.
On the Kronos 73, coming back to low E Has cramped my style. An octave key would be helpful because it would presumably be in the middle of the keyboard where I could reach it with either hand. I'm switching 8va now for a song, and I had to practice getting my hand out to the switch between the other notes that I'm playing and then get it back when the passage is over.
I get that a switch may not matter to someone else, or that E-E may work better for some than C-C. But that's why it matters to me. 
_________________
Kronos 2 88, Kronos Classic 73, PX-5S, Kronos 2 61, Roli Seaboard Rise 49 |
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| danmusician wrote: | | sani wrote: | | I'd really like someone to explain it to me, why those dedicated octave switches are so important. |
This statement really shows the pressure that is on manufactures when designing a keyboard. Everyone has their own "must have" feature set. What matters to me may not matter to you. I took a grad class years ago that included a tour of the Ensoniq facilities. A room full of musicians kept asking the rep why doesn't keyboard X have feature Y? Answer: it comes down to economics. They can make a keyboard do anything, but have to decide how much they can afford to put in and still bring the keyboard in at a certain price point.
For me, gigging as a one-man-band, I need portability. My 01/W Pro with 76 keys was a compromise because I couldn't carry the Pro X due to size and weight. But all the years I played it, I wished that I could take a fourth off the top of the keyboard and add it to the bottom.
I got my M3 73 and loved the fact that it was a C-C keyboard. I play a lot in D and Eb and I often double 8va in my left hand.
On the Kronos 73, coming back to low E Has cramped my style. An octave key would be helpful because it would presumably be in the middle of the keyboard where I could reach it with either hand. I'm switching 8va now for a song, and I had to practice getting my hand out to the switch between the other notes that I'm playing and then get it back when the passage is over.
I get that a switch may not matter to someone else, or that E-E may work better for some than C-C. But that's why it matters to me. |
Maybe a softkey would then be a good alternative (economic wise). For me it doesn't matter much: every song I play is currently in a combi (and when I have a Kronos it will be a set list slot). And if I would need to switch inside a combi, I just copy the combi with alternative octave settings. And I have 2 synths, so actually I have 2x5 octaves.
_________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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aron
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 1549
Location: Hawaii
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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The Kurzweil oct and transpose keys are so great. It certainly would be nice to at least have the transpose there. Especially since Korg was one of the first/ if not the first to have transpose.
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Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad. |
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Palaver_Sound
Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| danmusician wrote: | | sani wrote: | | I'd really like someone to explain it to me, why those dedicated octave switches are so important. |
This statement really shows the pressure that is on manufactures when designing a keyboard. Everyone has their own "must have" feature set. What matters to me may not matter to you. I took a grad class years ago that included a tour of the Ensoniq facilities. A room full of musicians kept asking the rep why doesn't keyboard X have feature Y? Answer: it comes down to economics. They can make a keyboard do anything, but have to decide how much they can afford to put in and still bring the keyboard in at a certain price point.
For me, gigging as a one-man-band, I need portability. My 01/W Pro with 76 keys was a compromise because I couldn't carry the Pro X due to size and weight. But all the years I played it, I wished that I could take a fourth off the top of the keyboard and add it to the bottom.
I got my M3 73 and loved the fact that it was a C-C keyboard. I play a lot in D and Eb and I often double 8va in my left hand.
On the Kronos 73, coming back to low E Has cramped my style. An octave key would be helpful because it would presumably be in the middle of the keyboard where I could reach it with either hand. I'm switching 8va now for a song, and I had to practice getting my hand out to the switch between the other notes that I'm playing and then get it back when the passage is over.
I get that a switch may not matter to someone else, or that E-E may work better for some than C-C. But that's why it matters to me. |
I don't buy this argument in respect to an 'octave switch'. Especially, when it comes to a board using the 'open architecture' line in its marketing strategy. I certainly don't have financial numbers to back it up, but I'm pretty sure implementing a software 'octave' button within the pads tab (for example), would be minimal R&D. One would intuitiviely think that adding sound banks, pre-programming the nano controllers, so on and so forth (for OS 1.5) is a much larger undertaking than putting in a silly octave/transpose switch.
It's such a trivial and simplistic feature... why not add it? We are the consumers. And, Korg have been excellent with implementing change for the most part. They implemented the nanoPad update. Why not this? If adding an octave switch sells a board or two extra, I think that would certainly pay-off any simple programming task of adding a switch in performance mode.
The only logical economic argument I can think of, would be the cannabilization of the 73 and 88 key boards. It's highly likely that Korg took this into account when running economic projections on sales.
Back to the 'octave button' issue:
It really is the equivalent of having no cup-holders in a car. It would be extremely irratating to pick up a cup of coffee at a drive thru, only to realize that the new BMW you just bought can't accomadate it. Yes, the car is amazing, it still works and is beautiful, but there's nowhere to put the damn coffee! It's the same with the octave switch. It's not detrimental to the operation of the board, but a really nice convenience.
It's important to note that I really do think it's a great board based on my demo. It's also a damn good price. However, the purpose of this thread is to bring back focus to an important, relative, simplistic feature.
Cheers,
Phil |
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