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leo200
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Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 106
Location: Israel
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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Yes , but did not record it. Since the difference is audible in low and middle low frequencies it is very depend of the nature of the sound-on high notes you are not hear difference at all, but the more the basses and middle low sounds-the more the difference
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Leo
OASYS 76 #000145, Kurzweil K2600S, Yamaha QS300 |
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| leo200 wrote: | | SanderXpander wrote: | I'm glad that you're happy with your O. I don't mean to attack that in any way. I have never played one, just a Kronos, so I can't debate very well from experience. However, I'm not very interested in which one people think sounds "better", because such an argument is subjective by nature. I'm interested why the Kronos would sound DIFFERENT with identical input from the UI. This is easy to test; record a midi sequence of something on the O., bounce it to audio internally on the O.
Then transfer the midi sequence to the K., load up the Oasys sound banks and again bounce the midi to audio internally (set the K. to the same 16-bit used on the O.).
Then, transfer the resulting wave files to a listening device, or even a wave analyzer, and compare.
It doesn't seem like that's what happened here. So we're left with an entirely subjective comparison again, and we don't really need sound samples to rehash that argument. |
I'll give it try and will post the results.Probably-next week |
No rush. But if and when you do, could you give them names that don't show which is which? It'd really make your case for you if people could pick the O. blind. |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| leo200 wrote: | | Yes , but did not record it. Since the difference is audible in low and middle low frequencies it is very depend of the nature of the sound-on high notes you are not hear difference at all, but the more the basses and middle low sounds-the more the difference |
Listening to your Oasys/Kronos comparison WAV's with my AKG k702 headphones, it is very evident that even the high audio frequencies, like in the Hi-Hat sound, have more transparency, depth and clearness on the OASYS sound example.
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: | | ...No rush. But if and when you do, could you give them names that don't show which is which? It'd really make your case for you if people could pick the O. blind. |
I would win a blindfold test anytime   It's so easy...at least with high-end monitors and headphones...
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franzlp
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Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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I can also now confirm my suspicions when I've audibly compared both devices. These recordings confirm that there is a quantifiable difference in the sound quality. I find the OASYS sound and it's spectrum "big" and mature. The Kronos is impressive but it has a distinct lack of body and boldness when compared side to side in sound quality. I am happy that I have my mazzaratti (oh I meant OASYS) because the quality of it's exterior is complimented by its pristine boldness. Bravo OASYS, there will never be one like you! I knew it.
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"The Oasys was made out of love...love lasts longer than fear" |
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EvilDragon
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 1992
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I think for a bit better test, stereo sound output from both boards should be recorded instead of internal bouncing. |
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leo200
Full Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 106
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: | | leo200 wrote: | | SanderXpander wrote: | I'm glad that you're happy with your O. I don't mean to attack that in any way. I have never played one, just a Kronos, so I can't debate very well from experience. However, I'm not very interested in which one people think sounds "better", because such an argument is subjective by nature. I'm interested why the Kronos would sound DIFFERENT with identical input from the UI. This is easy to test; record a midi sequence of something on the O., bounce it to audio internally on the O.
Then transfer the midi sequence to the K., load up the Oasys sound banks and again bounce the midi to audio internally (set the K. to the same 16-bit used on the O.).
Then, transfer the resulting wave files to a listening device, or even a wave analyzer, and compare.
It doesn't seem like that's what happened here. So we're left with an entirely subjective comparison again, and we don't really need sound samples to rehash that argument. |
I'll give it try and will post the results.Probably-next week |
No rush. But if and when you do, could you give them names that don't show which is which? It'd really make your case for you if people could pick the O. blind. |
I'll do this way
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Leo
OASYS 76 #000145, Kurzweil K2600S, Yamaha QS300
Last edited by leo200 on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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leo200
Full Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 106
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| EvilDragon wrote: | | I think for a bit better test, stereo sound output from both boards should be recorded instead of internal bouncing. |
I've got this way the same result.
But why you think that it is better way?
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Leo
OASYS 76 #000145, Kurzweil K2600S, Yamaha QS300 |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| EvilDragon wrote: | | Sounds (and looks, take a look at the waveforms) like there's more compression going on the OASYS. I wouldn't attribute that solely to DACs. |
You can find the information on this forum (from Dan Phillips and others) that M3, OASYS and Kronos astonishingly share the same and absolutely identical DACs!!! So this aspect is therefore obviously irrelevant concerning the final sound quality of those different instruments...
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| SanderXpander wrote: | | Again I feel the need to ask if you copied the Oasys soundbanks to the Kronos entirely, or if you just took the combis on the two machines that had the same name, and assumed they were identical. Also, did you switch the Kronos to 16 bit recording as well? As it seems this might account for some of the "compression" heard. All in all, it would seem entirely unlikely to me that Kronos, based on JUST THE SOFTWARE (seeing as you recorded internally without use of the DACs) would sound so dramatically different with identical settings. |
The same again: You can find the information on this forum (from Dan Phillips and others) that M3, OASYS and Kronos astonishingly share the same and absolutely identical DACs!!! So this aspect is therefore obviously irrelevant concerning the final sound quality of those different instruments...
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MrT-Man
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Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:14 am Post subject: |
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Does it really just come down to the DACs? I mean have a look inside the Oasys, the heavy duty shielding on all the wires is pretty crazy. Doesn't all that stuff have at least a little bit of an impact in shaping the final sound quality?
Also at least as far as the M3 is concerned, the raw waveforms are compressed while they're not in the Oasys. I haven't A/Bed an Oasys and Kronos but there's no question that there's a dramatic difference between the M3 and Oasys, as anyone who has heard both would tell you. |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| MrT-Man wrote: | Does it really just come down to the DACs? I mean have a look inside the Oasys, the heavy duty shielding on all the wires is pretty crazy. Doesn't all that stuff have at least a little bit of an impact in shaping the final sound quality?
Also at least as far as the M3 is concerned, the raw waveforms are compressed while they're not in the Oasys. I haven't A/Bed an Oasys and Kronos but there's no question that there's a dramatic difference between the M3 and Oasys, as anyone who has heard both would tell you. |
But that's exactly my point. The DACs are irrelevant, because they are exactly the same on M3, OASYS and Kronos. As you can read in this thread, I think that the OASYS is still playing in a higher sound league than the Kronos. The M3 uses of course the EDS Synthesis with compressed samples and Kronos/ OASYS do not (apart from all of the other soft synth engines). So other aspects must be the reason for the obvious different sound quality between OASYS and Kronos, as you have already suggested some...
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:14 am Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by Sina172 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Sina172 wrote: | | Dany wrote: | The same again: You can find the information on this forum (from Dan Phillips and others) that M3, OASYS and Kronos astonishingly share the same and absolutely identical DACs!!! So this aspect is therefore obviously irrelevant concerning the final sound quality of those different instruments...
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NO THEY DON'T! M3 and M50 use TI PCM1793 and PCM1802 DAC's!
I have opened up my M50 before to see the PCM1793 DAC's.
The OASYS and KRONOS by contrast use FLAGSHIP TI PCM1792 DAC's!!!
HOW ARE THOSE THE SAME DAC'S?!?!?!?!
WHERE ARE YOU GUYS GETTING THIS INFO!!! GET A CLUE PEOPLE!!! 
Sina |
Yeah, Sina! Get yourself this CLUE from DAN PHILLIPS (Product Manager, KORG R&D) himself and I quote him from this thread:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=401147
| danatkorg wrote: | | Cesarsound wrote: | Another discovery: The Kronos uses the same DAC and ADC converters (chips) used on M3.
DAC - PCM1793
ADC - PCM1802 |
...which are the DAC and ADC used on the OASYS, as well. |
So please Sina, get YOUR facts straight, before you start posting nonsense like this... 
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: |
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...
Last edited by Sina172 on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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