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Microstation quirk not mentioned in the manual?

 
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Dr Feelgood
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:33 pm    Post subject: Microstation quirk not mentioned in the manual? Reply with quote

Hello again Embarassed Sorry for the barrage of posts. So I was fiddling around with some presets in program mode, moving some of the presets to the 'user' category so I could customize some of my own sounds. I made a few parameter tweaks to the Filters, amp and LFO and a few other changes and saved my settings. All seemed fine and well until I noticed that the Microstation doesn't save the numerical values of the parameters that I made the changes to Mad Mad

I should clarify that the parameter changes are saved into the internal memory but all the numerical values are reverted back to Zero in the editing matrix! This is quite dissapointing for a number of reasons-1. You can't recall any of the patches with their modified numerical values for 'synth recipe' purposes. 2. It's easy to lose track of what has been edited and what hasn't and hard to decide what to further edit as the numbers aren't stored when you save the data!!

Hopefully I'm overlooking something and hopefully there is a way to bypass all of this unneccesary madness.

Any help is appreciated! Thanks for your time.
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billbaker
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the sounds you edited, using controllers rather than internal edits, WERE saved in their "tweaked" form [the saved voices sound like what you want] but all the controller knob values reset to "0"?

This IS a standard mode for saved voices -- the assumption is that the new (saved) voice represents where you want to START any future programming/tweaking (in other words a new "Zero") and no reference to the values of the original sound will be kept... otherwise all sounds would reference back to an prior sound or even an initialized state; all values start at zero at some point.

----------

If the sounds DIDN'T save in tweaked form (which is not how your message reads) then you'd need to do your tweaks in program rather than controller mode in order to ensure that the changes are saved as desired.


BB
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Dr Feelgood
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

billbaker wrote:
So the sounds you edited, using controllers rather than internal edits, WERE saved in their "tweaked" form [the saved voices sound like what you want] but all the controller knob values reset to "0"?

This IS a standard mode for saved voices -- the assumption is that the new (saved) voice represents where you want to START any future programming/tweaking (in other words a new "Zero") and no reference to the values of the original sound will be kept... otherwise all sounds would reference back to an prior sound or even an initialized state; all values start at zero at some point.


I made all of my tweaks using the internal editing matrix. Once I made all of the tweaks I saved the patch. I didn't use any of the real time controllers as I understand as you pointed out that these do not make any permanent changes to the sound. Your last paragraph certainly makes sense though.



Quote:
If the sounds DIDN'T save in tweaked form (which is not how your message reads) then you'd need to do your tweaks in program rather than controller mode in order to ensure that the changes are saved as desired.


BB


Oh yeah I totally understand that you can't make permanent changes using the controllers in realtime, you would have to change the actual parameters numerically (as I did) in the internal editing matrix. Needless to say as I stated before the numerical values are not stored in the MS's internal memory once you've tweaked the sounds to your liking (not using the controllers) and saved your changes. Mad This really blows! Again I hope I'm just overlooking something-I don't see how Korg could let something like this slide.
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Last edited by Dr Feelgood on Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:59 am; edited 3 times in total
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X-Trade
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm basing this on my experience with other Korg workstations but on my Tr (and I think the KARMA) there was a tab labelled 'Tone Adjust' or 'sound adjust' or 'quick edit' or something like that, which provided some quick modifier controls whose changes were actually saved with the program. But they were offsets from the original controls.

Somewhere the patch is stored using absolute values, typically in ranges like 0 to 127, -99 to +99, 0 to 100, etc. But what you are seeing is not these numbers, rather you have access to a bunch of tweaking 'modifier' or 'offset' controls that then alter the actual parameters which get saved when you write the program.

I don't know how limited the microStation is but I got the impression that for more in-depth editing, you'll need to go into the software editor. Personally I hate software editors, but then I'm fortunate not to own a microStation.

Why do you want to see the values anyway?
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Dr Feelgood
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Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-Trade wrote:
I'm basing this on my experience with other Korg workstations but on my Tr (and I think the KARMA) there was a tab labelled 'Tone Adjust' or 'sound adjust' or 'quick edit' or something like that, which provided some quick modifier controls whose changes were actually saved with the program. But they were offsets from the original controls.

Somewhere the patch is stored using absolute values, typically in ranges like 0 to 127, -99 to +99, 0 to 100, etc. But what you are seeing is not these numbers, rather you have access to a bunch of tweaking 'modifier' or 'offset' controls that then alter the actual parameters which get saved when you write the program.

I don't know how limited the microStation is but I got the impression that for more in-depth editing, you'll need to go into the software editor. Personally I hate software editors, but then I'm fortunate not to own a microStation.

Why do you want to see the values anyway?


Thanks for responding! Hardware synths are a rather new foray for me. I got somewhat acquainted with my Microkorg over several years of usage and one thing that I especially liked about it was the in depth editing capabilities or more so the fact that all of your tweaks were saved with their numerical values in tact-this is especially useful for making and recalling 'synth recipes' i.e. sound design. Sometimes I like to share the numerical parameters of a patch I've 'designed' with others who also use the Microkorg or a similar synth, having the numbers available at the push of a button makes all of this much more easier!

As I've pointed out it appears the Microstation doesn't store the numerical edits into it's internal memory once a patch is customized which means I would have to write all of my tweaks down on paper for future reference...which would be kind of a drag but doable. Perhaps everything is operating normally and I'm just making a mountain out of a mole hill Embarassed It's going to take a bit more time than expected to familiarize myself with the in's and out's as expected, but as you said the packaged editing software may answer some of my complaints...Thing is I was really wanting to use the MS as a standalone unit-as my rig isn't set up around a PC and I'm not to adamant about dropping another 1000 dollars to integrate software into my setup.

*There also appears not to be a way to restore-internally-a patch (that's been edited) back to it's original factory settings without having to use the included software.
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johnroney
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Joined: 16 May 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: microstation editor Reply with quote

can't anybody at KORG or elsewhere make a new EDITOR/LIBRARIAN for the microstation - seems like we're all having problems with the way that the combis are saved and stored...

drag and drop is a fantastic idea.
any plans on updating the samples? the pianos are tinny...
i just wanna play my gig!

johnroney
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