Korg Forums

[Rob Sherratt]

I corresponded with PG Music recently, the makers of "Band in a Box". There is no copyright problem in creating and exporting styles from BiaB for use on the Pa2x/ Pa800. We can re-distribute such styles on the forum for other users benefit, even if they do not own BiaB. There is also some info about track assignments and generating harmony channel chords below. If you are a user of BiaB then please send me an email? I want to start a little "club" where we share the effort between us to export and convert some of the best BiaB styles for "live play" use on the Pa2x/ Pa800.

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Question 1
I know that all tracks from BiaB will be directed to the same MIDI port or .MID file, but could you please let me know how I assign MIDI track numbers to each BiaB track? I know that BiaB works with multi-track sound modules, so the track numbers for each BiaB track must be assigned to MIDI track numbers somewhere. Obviously I would like to assign the "correct" MIDI track numbers to correspond with the Pa2x and Pa800 keyboards.

Answer 1
To assign a channel number to a track in Band-in-a-Box you need to go to Opt | Preferences | Channels. Here you can change which ever track you'd like to which ever channel you would like.

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Question 2
How can I send the "harmony chord" notes that BiaB is currently playing to say MIDI track 5, so that it can be used with a vocal harmoniser? Each time the chord changes I need the new chord notes to be sent on this track, then when the chord changes we need "note off" to be sent for the previous chord, and the new notes for the current chord to be transmitted. In other words, these have to be block chords not arpeggiated notes that are generated by the style play mechanism.

Answer 2
To change the Harmonizer's chord output all you need to do is go to Opt | Preferences | OutputCH. Here you can change the channel that the chords output on.

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2008/7/11 support <support>:

Hello Rob,

The MIDI files created by Band-in-a-Box are not copy righted.
If you have any general questions I can answer, please feel free to ask.

Thanks,
Dave
PG Music Inc.
support@pgmusic.com

[Sam CA]

Hi Rob,
that's a very good idea. I recently bought that too, and i was surprised how good it is for working with midi. So, are you going to make a new forum for it?
_________________
Sam

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Sam,

I suggest we keep this thread going so long as there is interest. We would keep the technical discussion going here on hints/tips, configuration, who is working on converting which BiaB styles etc. Then I suggest we post the styles as message attachments on www.createsongstyles.com from where they can be easily downloaded. I'm not averse to making copyright-free styles available on korg forums, but I think Sharp prefers to avoid having to police the possibility of copyright breaches.

As you know, I attached the message I received from PG Music about the converted styles/ MIDI files being free of copyright. This is a great enabler, we would not want to do the work if there were copyright complications.

[Rob Sherratt]

I also asked PG Music whether BiaB running on a PC could be used with an electronic piano for live accompaniments. The answer is that it can not be used in this way - it can not recognise MIDI chords in real time played on an external keyboard. It is designed to be used with a "sequenced" chord progression that is created in advance for each song.

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rob,
I had a feeling that we wouldn't have a problem with being able to use BIAB styles as a basis for PA800 styles.

I did a bit of fiddling round with it a while back. I doubt we'd be able to share BIAB styles ( as PG sells them as add ons) but if they don't have a problem with us sharing midifiles created from the BIAB styles? that would open up great possibilities.
I'd been trying to find a simple way of creating a Korg style from a BIAB midifile, & I think I may have inadvertantly worked out a way of doing it
whilst I was experimenting with converting psr files to Korg format using a PC sequencer instead of EMC.

I definately found it worthwhile setting BIAB channels to match the Korg Style track channels.

If you're starting a club, have you also possibly also considered something along the lines of the Yahoo Group system ? I ran the Making Styles group for a couple of years using Yahoo Groups and found it quite simple..
Minimal upkeep really, except for the moderator having to approve new members & basically keep an eye on uploads just in case a member inadvertantly uploads something they shouldn't.
If you have a specific forum or group, messages & files might be less likely to get lost in the mix unless Ron ( moderator createasongstyle) was planning on having a BIAB section as part of his forum.

If you decide to go ahead, I've got all sorts of whacky ideas. Hopefully some of them may make it a bit simpler for members to try & create a style.

best wishes
Rikki

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Rikki,

Well if you will help I will put effort into this. As you know PG Music confirmed that exported MIDI files generated using BiaB are not copyrighted. So your whacky ideas will be very welcome - keep the posts coming here for now! Let's agree the process to follow to make the style generation as systematic as possible? I think Ron will be OK about using Create Song Styles as the upload/ distribution center for the new styles. We are in discussion about this. I don't want to set up a new web site.

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rob,
basically creating a Korg Style from a BIAB style is done in 2 parts.

Part 1 is creating a song in BIAB based on one of the styles ( ie no chord changes except for maybe intro's & endings), then saving it as a midifile.

Part 2 requires using the import/export function in the Korg's style record section of the keyboard.

Anyone willing to participate could fall into 3 catergories.

Those who own BIAB & are willing to create a midifile, but haven't got the time or maybe the knowledge on how to then create the style in the Korg.

Those who don't own BIAB but are willing to create a Korg style from the midifile.

And then those who are able to complete the whole process.

The actual creation of the midifile might also benefit non Korg users as well. Some of the other brands of keyboards are also able to create styles from midifiles, if not onboard, then via software.

I had been experimenting with a chord type that might best suit the Korg. Initially I thought it might be best to use the Maj7th chord format that PSR's use for their styles. But I've since changed my mind. BIAB more or less randomly picks phrases based on chord type used in a song. I think there may be more options available if the song is just based on a Maj chord for CV1 & then if more variety is required, do additional cv's based on min, 7th, chords etc.

Hardest part I used to find whilst I was running the stylemaking group was to get members that were interested enough to give it a go.

The import/export function of style creation & any editing required on the Korg would i think be helpfull to members even if they weren't particularly interested in BIAB styles. I convert my PSR styles in a similar manner.

Happy to try & help out if anyone's interested.

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rob,

just noticed Ron has started up a BIAB section on his Forum.
http://www.createsongstyles.com/forum/index.php

Hopefully things will kick off.

[quote="Rob Sherratt"]
_________________
best wishes
Rikki

HOBBYIST

PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano

Yamaha PSR SX900

Band in a Box 2023

[miden]

Hi Rikki and Rob..

I am up for it if you would like some further support.

I know BIAB and I know the Korg, although being mainly a MIDI person, I do not know a lot about style making but happy to do what I can.

On a personal level I could think of no-one better to learn the intricacies of style creation than Rikki.

So make that +1

Dennis

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Rikki, Dennis and Ron,

Thank you to the three of you (so far) for your interest and expertise and to Ron for alredy creating the downloads area on www.CreateSongStyles.com. I think we should post most information and the style downloads themselves on Ron's forum, and keep everyone updated periodically on this thread on Korg Forums. The downloads of new styles will be attached to messages on www.createsongstyles.com, they will be available to anybody free of charge, but to download them you will have to create a user account on createsongstyles, which is also free.

Here are the first things we need to publish:

a) Patch map for use with BiaB for the Pa2x/ Pa800.
b) Two worked examples, with full description of the process, screen shot pictures etc, as a tutorial published on CSS.
I have a ViF4 board that I can use to grab pictures from the screen of my Pa2x
Anyone can grab screen shots from BiaB using SHIFT PrintScreen on the PC.

[miden]

Rob,

From memory, and Rikki can confirm, I think BIAB uses the same format as the Cakewalk ins.def file in which case the Korg website has this one already, available for download.
I will now re-install BIAB and get re-acquainted with it!!

So should we now focus on Rons's site and liaise and sort things out there?

Dennis

[rikkisbears]

Hi Rob,
I did one ages ago, but it got lost when the createasongstyle forum crashed a while back.

Personally I don't really use it, I alter my sounds in the keyboard.

I've hopefully still got a copy, when I locate, I'll upload it again.

[quote="Rob Sherratt"]

a) Patch map for use with BiaB for the Pa2x/ Pa800.
_________________
best wishes
Rikki

HOBBYIST

PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano

Yamaha PSR SX900

Band in a Box 2023

[rikkisbears]

Hi Dennis,
OMB uses modified Cakewalk ins. can't remember if BIAB does??

I remember doing one for BIAB ( from memory I think I modified Rob's PA1X version)

Sad when one's memory starts to dim haahaa.

Just hoping I kept a copy.


[quote="miden"]Rob,

From memory, and Rikki can confirm, I think BIAB uses the same format as the Cakewalk ins.def file in which case the Korg website has this one already, available for download.
_________________
best wishes
Rikki

HOBBYIST

PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano

Yamaha PSR SX900

Band in a Box 2023

[Rob Sherratt]

Rikki,

I found a copy of the one you created for the Pa800. Shall I email it to you so you can check it works OK and then post it on CSS?

[Mickb]

Hi All,

I have BIAB and would like to get more acquainted with its style making capabilities so count me in too
_________________
Regards


Mick

www.palibrarian.net