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musikmachine
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Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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 Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| decrepitude wrote: | Well I'm glad I saw this.
The KP3 rocks. Period.
All the "bugs" worthy of real attention were addressed in 2.0 in my professional opinion. Midi sync is now very solid. Auto BPM? Eh, it's always a challenge to implement a sync method based on audio waveforms. Got a "Acid House" groove goin? Perfect. "Experimental breaks"? Uh, no.
Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead uses them. Considering these are unbalanced units (RCA i/o) designed for the DJ community, these two artists using them is a very strong vote of confidence.
Personally I can tell you it has been one of most inspiring and FUN devices I've owned in ages.
I think the "loop" sampling is KICK ASS. If you define sampling as being able to fire off one-hits (like an MPC) then it's like comparing apples to oranges anyway. All this crap about resampling clicks and glitches is so minor, especially considering the kind of material it is designed to play with. No on one the dance floor is EVER going to notice that or CARE.
The real question is how are you going to use it?
So many guitarists come here asking about it and I always have to laugh. Are you going to just do hammer-ons while you manipulate the KP3 with your other hand? I just don't get it. People will immediately point out Johnny Greenwood of Radiohead, but that dude gets on his knees and plays the pad (KP2 in this case) with both hands and typically is manipulating something he just sampled - often Thom's voice.
Using it in a rock band context can be really challenging - but possible. That is why that 'align' function is there, combined with diligent use of the Tap Tempo button. |
All good points thanks.It sounds like it would fit well into my setup.So the results will depend on the resampling method used?
Not to mention Matt Bellamy uses one.Why dont guitarists do what he's done and get one fitted in their guitars?Maybe thats why they come here asking about them...
Live i'd be using it to manipulate audio in ableton and for transitions when mixing between my laptop and emx .Also to process the sound of my xiosynth.Not necessarily all at once as i'd need a mixer.The resampling adds another dimension that i wasn't really aware of but sounds excellent for creative sound design...
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BostonGreen
Junior Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 60
Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Lol, even the mpc500 lets you alter the end point.
Its a basic mathematical principle (excluding the logarithms involved in time-stretching whilst maintaining pitch). By failing to allow the user to alter the end point, or stretch the recorded sample to the required number of ticks to make a perfect loop, they are failing it as a sampler. U just aint bright enough to grasp what i'm explaining.
Lol, and yes my 2500 does go out and about .... along with about another 15k worth of kit, i'm not shy about getting a few digs on my kit.
I own a PA hire company you muppet. |
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Zedius
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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I agree it would be nice to be able to edit the end point, but with the kp3 you need to be on time. What sucks about this is you might have an awesome sounding loop that's useless because you f***ed it up a bit. However, when you're playing live I don't think you want to be f*ck*ng around with end points anyway. If you want to edit the end point of the loop and you're not playing live, you can still adjust it on the computer and load it that way.
I'd say it's a feature they were kind of silly not to include, but it's not any sort of deal breaker. |
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decrepitude
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Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BostonGreen wrote: | | By failing to allow the user to alter the end point, or stretch the recorded sample to the required number of ticks to make a perfect loop, they are failing it as a sampler. U just aint bright enough to grasp what i'm explaining. |
The KP3 is not a "sampler" - at least not how you define it. I'm not wasting anymore time trying to differentiate a looping performance sampler to you.
No, I understand completely. I had an mpc1000 (albeit you need the JJ os to do any real time looping) so I know exactly what you're talking about. I just think comparing one of the most powerful Sampling/Sequencing workstations on the planet to the little ol' KP3 is a bit ill conceived.
If you prefer to use trim - that's fine. I still think you'll get better results practicing your sample triggers, using either type 1 or 3 and aligning as needed.
| BostonGreen wrote: | | ...U just aint bright enough to grasp what i'm explaining. ...I own a PA hire company you muppet. |
OK.OK. All right - I will concede I was a bit bitchy. I apologize for that. 
 This is the post that got me started in a foul mood today:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33900
Bygones? |
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decrepitude
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Zedius wrote: | | ...when you're playing live I don't think you want to be f*ck*ng around with end points anyway. |
THANK YOU.  |
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BostonGreen
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Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 60
Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, me too fella, lol, but damn its just so hard not to be on forums.
My apologies too. |
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musikmachine
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Zedius wrote: | I agree it would be nice to be able to edit the end point, but with the kp3 you need to be on time. What sucks about this is you might have an awesome sounding loop that's useless because you f***ed it up a bit. However, when you're playing live I don't think you want to be f*ck*ng around with end points anyway. If you want to edit the end point of the loop and you're not playing live, you can still adjust it on the computer and load it that way.
I'd say it's a feature they were kind of silly not to include, but it's not any sort of deal breaker. |
So what do you do live then?I was thinking of resampling into live anyway at first but the resampling capabilities of the kp3 sound awesome and make it more of an instrument in it's own right.I'll workaround it whatever but it would be good to be able to resample live and reuse the audio and mung it up with the kp3 on the fly
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musikmachine
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for you replies.I'm pretty certain i'll be picking one of these up
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BostonGreen
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Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Regardless of the sampling things, its an incredible little effects unit.
Theres one setting, Mod3, you can play absolutely anything into it and it'll sound superb, blends odd sounds together in the mix like they were recorded together. |
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Zedius
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| musikmachine wrote: |
So what do you do live then?I was thinking of resampling into live anyway at first but the resampling capabilities of the kp3 sound awesome and make it more of an instrument in it's own right.I'll workaround it whatever but it would be good to be able to resample live and reuse the audio and mung it up with the kp3 on the fly |
Exactly. That's what you do live. Lots and lots of fun. What you don't do live, or I don't anyway, is mess with endpoints. There are probably machines out there that allow decent muted editing and all that, but the kp3 is built for spontaneity. |
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musikmachine
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| BostonGreen wrote: | Regardless of the sampling things, its an incredible little effects unit.
Theres one setting, Mod3, you can play absolutely anything into it and it'll sound superb, blends odd sounds together in the mix like they were recorded together. |
Heh,if it wasn't for the resampling i'd probably get the mini kp.I saw a couple of vids of it being used as a midi controller,one controlling video and the other ableton live.Pretty slick
But the ideal of being able to capture musical phrases on the fly whilst jamming is what tipped it over the edge.
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musikmachine
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Just picked up the KP3.Got a sweet deal on one with a set of cables and a mic 
My live setup is complete so i should be out playing in a couple of weeks.Thanks for the help in coming to a decision guys
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SMK
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 1197
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| decrepitude wrote: | Well I'm glad I saw this.
The KP3 rocks. Period.
All the "bugs" worthy of real attention were addressed in 2.0 in my professional opinion. Midi sync is now very solid. Auto BPM? Eh, it's always a challenge to implement a sync method based on audio waveforms. Got a "Acid House" groove goin? Perfect. "Experimental breaks"? Uh, no.
Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead uses them. Considering these are unbalanced units (RCA i/o) designed for the DJ community, these two artists using them is a very strong vote of confidence.
Personally I can tell you it has been one of most inspiring and FUN devices I've owned in ages.
I think the "loop" sampling is KICK ASS. If you define sampling as being able to fire off one-hits (like an MPC) then it's like comparing apples to oranges anyway. All this crap about resampling clicks and glitches is so minor, especially considering the kind of material it is designed to play with. No on one the dance floor is EVER going to notice that or CARE.
The real question is how are you going to use it?
So many guitarists come here asking about it and I always have to laugh. Are you going to just do hammer-ons while you manipulate the KP3 with your other hand? I just don't get it. People will immediately point out Johnny Greenwood of Radiohead, but that dude gets on his knees and plays the pad (KP2 in this case) with both hands and typically is manipulating something he just sampled - often Thom's voice.
Using it in a rock band context can be really challenging - but possible. That is why that 'align' function is there, combined with diligent use of the Tap Tempo button. |
I Have to Agree with everything decrepitude has said here...except of course his comments for guitarists hahahaha
I just found this thread last night and I was a little confused WTF?!?!
Where sampling is concerned (and once you have the 2.0 update) you pretty much have the best little looping device on the planet. The way the KP3 is designed, the effects portion is just gravy....but damn good gravy
"All this crap about resampling clicks and glitches is so minor, especially considering the kind of material it is designed to play with"
clicks and glitches is something I learned how to deal with when I started using DJ gear for effects. Like most here, I hated it, fought it, tooth claw and nail. then I spent alot of time listening to the very music that these devices were designed for: RAVE!!!!!!
You know what? I heard the same damn annoying clicks and glitches that came with the live looping. But these DJs were using the clicks to their advantage...this was their sound. Glitches were pretty much the instrument for the well seasoned DJ (and still is today).
So I was kinda laughing when I read this thread header about the glitches or what have you. Is it that there are alot of people out there that are like me 4 years ago converting over to the use of DJ gear for new sound, not knowing what they are getting into? Is there a rash of new users just because Kaoss just seems soooooooo cool in theory or because MUSE, Radiohead, ENO, or NIN uses it?
I use Kaoss pads in my guitar rig. I use the KP3 at the end of my chain so I can put in a little master effect and take advantage of the 4 track looping feature. However decrepitude is right in questioning why a guitarist would ever consider doing such a thing:
"So many guitarists come here asking about it and I always have to laugh. Are you going to just do hammer-ons while you manipulate the KP3 with your other hand?"
Like the above quote says, that's exactly what I do! and have been for so many years. My hammer-one technique isn't Van Halen- lickity-split either. I literally play the guitar with one hand. Another thing is my guitar is frettless with flat wound strings. these 2 combinations literally replace the need for such pick-hand operations like a whammy bar and also replicate the sound of a slide.
So my pick-hand is free to manipulate effect devices like eqs, delays, the ES1 (my first DJ toy) Air Effects (my second DJ toy). I'm a knob tweeker.
After seeing Reeves Gebreals (Bowies guitarist of the 90's) perform live with a Kaoss pad i had to have one. Reeves is phenomenal at playing one hand on the neck while his pick hand was manipulating not only a KP1 but also an Air Effect.
I guess the point of my story is that when you ask about how good or cool an effect or sampler is, it almost crucial to learn as much as you can about how the user is working with the gear. To me the KP3 replaced my Boss RC20 XL which was clunky at best for the way I work. BTW who the frak needs 5 min looping, once you pass 60 secs of looping isnt that a song anyways hahahaha...Anyways...
Now is there more to my uses of a Kaoss pad in a guitar rig? Oh yeah!
Please check out the thread I started on the subject before buying a KP3 or KP2 or a mini KP for your guitar set up.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31033
KP3 is the best live looping/sampling device, outside of schlepping a 61 key TR workstation, I've ever worked with. |
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decrepitude
Full Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| SMK wrote: | I Have to Agree with everything decrepitude has said here...except of course his comments for guitarists hahahaha...
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I concede you've made some very valid points about it's use with guitar.
| SMK wrote: | | Is there a rash of new users just because Kaoss just seems soooooooo cool in theory or because MUSE, Radiohead, ENO, or NIN uses it? |
Yes, yes, yes, yes and YES.
| SMK wrote: | I use Kaoss pads in my guitar rig. I use the KP3 at the end of my chain so I can put in a little master effect and take advantage of the 4 track looping feature...
...My hammer-one technique isn't Van Halen- lickity-split either. I literally play the guitar with one hand. Another thing is my guitar is frettless with flat wound strings. these 2 combinations literally replace the need for such pick-hand operations like a whammy bar and also replicate the sound of a slide.
So my pick-hand is free to manipulate effect devices like eqs, delays, the ES1 (my first DJ toy) Air Effects (my second DJ toy). I'm a knob tweeker.
After seeing Reeves Gebreals (Bowies guitarist of the 90's) perform live with a Kaoss pad i had to have one. Reeves is phenomenal at playing one hand on the neck while his pick hand was manipulating not only a KP1 but also an Air Effect.
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Wow. Sounds cool.
You know what'd be awesome? Korg should make a KAOSS Expression pedal/board. You'd be able top turn your foot left and right as well as up and down maybe? |
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SMK
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 1197
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| decrepitude wrote: |
You know what'd be awesome? Korg should make a KAOSS Expression pedal/board. You'd be able top turn your foot left and right as well as up and down maybe? |
It's been done!
● Z-pedal takes pedal performance to the next level
The pedal on the right side of the G9.2tt supports 3D action by sensing not only conventional up/down but also sideways movement. The Z-pedal lets you build highly complex sound control patterns by allowing you to assign up to four parameters in each axis of pedal movement (vertical and horizontal). There are also effects specifically designed for use with the Z-pedal. Get creative in ways never imagined before, and explore a whole new realm of pedal performance.
CHeck out the site for more info:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/g92tt/index.php |
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