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MOSS vs VL

 
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BasariStudios
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: MOSS vs VL Reply with quote

Dear Daz, Sharp and the rest. I'll try to be more precise, cuz as you can see almost everytime i compare everything to the MOTIF ES, lol... Razz
On the PLG-VL card for MOTIF ES, there is acoustic sounds especially woodwinds and brass which i can dream about on the EXTREME.
Now, i also know the MOSS board is a bit of more synthetic stuff, while the VL is not so complicated but its pure ACOUSTIC, there is no synth stuff in there.

With the MOSS board, would i be able to get at least close to those sounds on the VL? For example few of the SAXes, VIOLINs and CLARINETs...with the real vibratio, growl, throat dynamics, lips control, dynamic and breath control and everything else... Question Question Question
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jazlover
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love MOSS but VL is better. Yamaha really emulate accostic very well (forgive me Jerry).
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BasariStudios
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my MOSS today, the thing is great and more complex then VL,
also more stuff, but for acoustics, nowhere VL.
Especially the SAXES and CLARINETES on VL, uh...
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MusiKman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree. I think that the MOSS board is just if not better than the VL card. I had the VL before with my EX motif ES7. I hated that it was monophonic. It basically is almost like having the SOLO prophecy board.
I do agree that the VL has better presets and thats maybe why it seems to sound better than the moss. The MOSS has 6 voices and the technology is the same. I think Korg Licensed the techonology from Yamaha.

What I am looking for is if someone has been able to prgram good SAX patches for the Moss board. I have the Trinity MOSS.
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Vangelismusic
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:57 pm    Post subject: MOSS VS VL Reply with quote

Well, if you have the Yamaha VL1 then I think it is one of the best synths ever made for that type of technology(Virtual Acoustics), I have the VL7, I couldn't afford the VL1. I am getting the MOSS for my Triton Classic soon, I will try to see what I can do with that and compare although that's kinda hard to do.
Cool

Vangelis
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BasariStudios
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MusiKman wrote:
I hated that it was monophonic.


I guess i'll talk to you when you find me a real Polyphonic Sax, Clarinet,
Trumpet, Violin, Flute or else...not fantasies.
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xpander



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The differences between VL and MOSS? I haven't done really exclusive comparisons, but I do have Yamaha VL70-m and MOSS board on Triton, so I have some idea.


Even though MOSS uses the licensed Sondius-XG technology, it is applied into common synthesizer structure. The basis of the sound creation is oscillator and filters (voice), then EG, LFO, effect, and control sections. One can choose from 13 different oscillator types, out of which 4 models are based on same "behavior categories" as on VL. These are Brass, Reed, Plucked String and Bowed String models.

The filter provides five types of filters, five EG units and four LFO units can be used to
modulate the voice section.


The Virtual Acoustic Synthesis Yamaha uses on the VL is a little bit different animal. The VA model is based on saxophone, the additional program parts allow the generalized sax model to be extrapolated to approximate other instruments (as stated in original VA guides). The following five behavior categories are given:

Single Reeds: Sax, Clarinet, etc.
Jet Reeds: Flute, Recorder, Shakuhachi, Pipe Organ pipe, etc.
Lip Reeds: Trumpet, French Horn, etc.
Bowed Strings: Violin, Kokyu, etc.
Plucked Strings: Guitar, Bass etc.

The basic VA model has three blocks which are instrument, controllers and modifiers. Instrument block defines the basic timbre. It has two parts, driver (reed/mouthpiece, lip/mouthpiece or bow/string) and resonant system (tube and air column or string). One can mix different drivers and resonant systems together to create hybrid intruments not physically possible.

The controllers define how the created instrument plays, from the actual physical acts of playing to the responses the instrument will give to these.

Modifiers have four sections, harmonic enhancer, dynamic filter, EQ and resonator. Harmonic enhancer defines the harmonic structure within the instrument group. Filter is the usual HP, BP, LP deal. The equalizer is 5-band parametric with filters and key scaling. The resonator simulates pipes or strings. The effect section has 4 separate effect stages, reverb, chorus, variation and distortion, nothing special there.


All this might sound more complicated than MOSS, and I think that's true. As long as you just play the presets, both are kinda same. In my opinion, VA will offer more realistic response to the real instrument playing, MOSS excels in synth type stuff.

But when you try programming them, the differences become clear fast. In MOSS, even the VA based oscillator types have just few selected parameters and you can program your sounds very much like in any regular synth. In VA (VL) you basically create the new instrument from the beginning to the end and define it's sound and response with dozens of parameters at every step. Working with VL7 or VL70-m, there are also plenty of parameters one can only access by using specific computer editors. This is more involved process than programming in MOSS, but also with possibly amazing results.

While MOSS might be more suited to expressive (lead) synth type of sounds, it can do virtual acoustics too, but in a limited, "preset" kinda way. I don't mean that the actual sounds produced wouldn't sound as "real" or "good" as on VL, but that they are more limited in the range or adjustability. VA on the other hand excels on some instrument simulations, but since the programming is based on physics and behaviour of real instruments rather than on synth type blocks, getting good synth sounds might be harder.


BasariStudios wrote:
MusiKman wrote:
I hated that it was monophonic.


I guess i'll talk to you when you find me a real Polyphonic Sax, Clarinet,
Trumpet, Violin, Flute or else...not fantasies.


?

I actually play real polyphonic string instruments...also part of the idea of Virtual Acoustic synthesis, not just the monophonic wind instruments. Then again, you also mentioned a clearly polyphonic instrument yourself, violin that is, so what's the deal, what's the fantasy?

The Aulochrome was apparently way harder process to be created in real life than its virtual counterpart should ever be, unless you're dealing with monophony, which would make it nay impossible (pun intended). Any ensembles that you might want to construct, or orchestras, Roland Kirk?

Programming guides suggest laying a solo (melody) VL voice over the sampler/rompler voices, in essence fooling us to hear the whole thing as more realistic. While a good idea in itself, it won't necessarily always help creating even a single realistic instrument, not without polyphony.


Yamaha VL-1 has two voice elements. On VL70-m Yamaha addressed this polyphony problem by having Polyphony Expansion mode, where you can link up to four VLs together. On MOSS you of course have the six note polyphony to start with.
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Shakil
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Yamaha Motif ES, you can link 3 PLG-150 VLs, either as three parts with 1 note polyphony each, or 1 part with 3 notes polyphony.
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