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KorgPlayer
Full Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 194
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 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: Lack of functions in PA2X & hacking OS? |
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Hello,
I have been waiting very long for the PA2X release. Unfortunately, some very very important hardware upgrade since PA1X and PA800 has NOT been done:
--->>> Adding several analog audio outputs for professional and flexible audio mixing/routing.
For example:
Style on audio output 1&2 (L&R);
Real time tracks (1,2,3, lower) out on analog output 3&4;
Lead vocal & harmonies on (non existing) output 5&6;
In that way can use this instrument harmony ability's for concerts. Now it is impossible because the lack of mixing possibilities.
So my question/solution is following:
1) Will there in the near future be possible to buy some hardware expansion unit that will give for example 8 audio outputs or similar?
2) Will KORG add on software basis some 'internal mixer, that can be set similar to live mixers in term of 'compressor' mixing ¨with ducking etc...? In that way that upper instruments 'talk' with lead vocal(s) and harmony as on live mixer board.
3) If nothing of the above will be done - can we 'hack' PA2X (or PA1X and PA800) OS to add possibility for 'ducking' compressor etc? I have spoken with some people that can do that, but I don't know where I shall ask for permission because I assume that KORG has legally protected their OS?!
I will appreciate if some KORG representative can answer this post.
Thank you.
_________________
M1, JV-1080, WaveStationEX, PA1X, MS20, KLC...
Last edited by KorgPlayer on Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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BasariStudios
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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I think thats a little overboard...over the limits, sometimes we ask for impossibles...
Duckin?! They dont even have that on their MultiTrack recorders...
But i still think we ask for a lot A LOT! I think this synth should be a MACPRO
G5 QUAD 3.0GHZ CORE with 16GB of RAM, PRO TOOLS, CUBASE, WAVES and
also ROSETTA800 AD/DA from APOGEE...then it will be alright... 
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
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MusiKman
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 563
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Nedim wrote: | I think thats a little overboard...over the limits, sometimes we ask for impossibles...
Duckin?! They dont even have that on their MultiTrack recorders...
But i still think we ask for a lot A LOT! I think this synth should be a MACPRO
G5 QUAD 3.0GHZ CORE with 16GB of RAM, PRO TOOLS, CUBASE, WAVES and
also ROSETTA800 AD/DA from APOGEE...then it will be alright... |
Very True Nedim. I agree. Manufacturers have to make very hard decisions on what will give them the most profit on sales. I still think an ADAT output board could have been an option. Even if you dont have adat inputs on your board, Beringher sells a digital to analog board for that purpose. So that could have been a possibility. Either way, it would have increased the cost as well. But then again, all the adat outputs that korg has made always only support four channels, and not the whole 8 that are usually standard.
_________________
Best,
Musikman
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BasariStudios
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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The other thing is we have to remember who we ask for features...KORG...!
Nothing new and unusual.
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KorgPlayer
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Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your inputs people.
My post and questions are directly connected to 'philosophy of sounding' & sound engineering.
As I worked long time as sound engineer, I have a bit different view on live sound.
Arrangers in KORG PAX series are fantastic sounding machines. Unfortunately, it is so very very very rare to find it sounding good LIVE on stage.
Often, LIVE KORG PAX players don't use harmonizers, compressors or EQ on their vocals and PAX.
Typically that ends in well known 'third class' live sound with to much muddy lead and bass without any 'middle'. So I often say: If you want to sound as $300 keyboard on stage - buy a $3000 keyboard.
What is the point? Well the point is that mixer board and speakers are the LAST part of chain in sound setup for LIVE playing (......)
The right way, from my point of view, is that musicians shall focus on performance and PLAYING and let the machine take care of levels and similar boring stuff.
In real world pro mixing, at that point there comes chain compressors with ducking compatibilities.
How does that work. When you are performing, you don't need to manually change the levels of an instrument if you begin to sign - compressors will do that instead automatically. The singer & vocals have same sounding level, but during singing compressor takes automatically down for example 40% from accompaniment. When you stop signing it takes it up automatically.
That common practice has been used on hundred of thousands of records.
This can be set inside of PA1X for example - but we need permission to 'hack' it OS. If not KORG have intention to build an internal 'stage mixer' for purposes above or just implement a ducking controll between upper tracks and vocal leads unit in PAX. The goal is to in easy way just get that 'professional' mix dependence between voice unit and and upper tracks.
Thanks.
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M1, JV-1080, WaveStationEX, PA1X, MS20, KLC... |
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BasariStudios
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Korg Player, i know exactly what you talking about, i am a Sound Engineer
myself and thats pretty much what i mostly do but hey, lets be real.
When its KORG in question come on bro, we BARELY made it with the
MASTER EQ on the PA800...DUCKING??? Ehehehehe, thats still funny!
We can just dream.
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Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
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Paolo@Korg
Korg Italy
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1090
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Lack of functions in PA2X & hacking OS Mr Trammanoni |
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Hi KP,
| KorgPlayer wrote: | | Adding several analog audio outputs for professional and flexible audio mixing/routing. |
Additional audio outputs will not be installed by Korg. I doubt hacks can actually be done.
| Quote: | | 'compressor' mixing ¨with ducking etc...? |
If you need ducking to address the audience during playback, couldn't you use the Talk function found in the Global > Voice Processor Setup > Talk page?
Best regards,
Paolo |
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BasariStudios
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Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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KorgPlayer
Full Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Lack of functions in PA2X & hacking OS Mr Trammanoni |
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Hello Paolo & rest,
| Quote: | | Additional audio outputs will not be installed by Korg. I doubt hacks can actually be done. |
Does that mean that we can do hardware upgrade on our own risk? Regarding OS hack: Are allowed in legal term to do that?
| Quote: | | If you need ducking to address the audience during playback, couldn't you use the Talk function found in the Global > Voice Processor Setup > Talk page? |
That doesn't give the same result. That 'ducking' compression shall trigs automatically buy the voice during singing, without clicking on any buttons.
My expectations are maybe above the 'crowd' but I was hopping that PA2X could bring us closer to my 'sound philosophy'. But maybe the third generation of KORG arrangers will do a move in that direction.
Unless I don't construct my own arranger with all those dream features 
Regards.
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KorgPlayer
Full Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Nedim wrote: | I think thats a little overboard...over the limits, sometimes we ask for impossibles...
Duckin?! They dont even have that on their MultiTrack recorders |
Nedim,
That is actually very easy to accomplish between lower and upper section in keyboard because there is good sounding compressors in PAX machines.
With a little change in routing of signals, that could even be done with vocal in PAX machines - because the song output already have compressor
As I said, I'm just waiting to get a green light regarding OS hack. Then maybe we can create a history in world of arrangers
Regards.
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BasariStudios
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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If you are that smart nobody stops you from Hacking the OS, the Hacked
PA80 and PA50, the Hacked PA1X, its all on your own risk of the machine.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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KorgPlayer
Full Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Nedim wrote: | If you are that smart nobody stops you from Hacking the OS, the Hacked
PA80 and PA50, the Hacked PA1X, its all on your own risk of the machine. |
I was expecting such answer All right then, see you soon.
Thanks!
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FSalomon
Junior Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:35 am Post subject: Midi |
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One way to use more than 4 out from the PA1XPRO is to connect to a laptop via midi which is using cubase or any other software then connect to a dbx box that sends signals t a mixer where the channes or tracks are distributed.
The question is does Pa1xpro send all 16 MIDI channels simultaneously?
if it does then that's great.
BTW, I have used L+R on a live show, one just got to carefully mix in front of a flat response speaker (or studio monitor) first. |
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BasariStudios
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Salomon, i dont think that would help you, even 300 DI boxes wont help
you cuz you gotta know, the original signal out of the synth still comes
only thru the 4 outs, there is no way of hell to split it that way.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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Rob Sherratt
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 4590
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Midi |
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| FSalomon wrote: | One way to use more than 4 out from the PA1XPRO is to connect to a laptop via midi which is using cubase or any other software then connect to a dbx box that sends signals t a mixer where the channes or tracks are distributed.
The question is does Pa1xpro send all 16 MIDI channels simultaneously?
if it does then that's great.
BTW, I have used L+R on a live show, one just got to carefully mix in front of a flat response speaker (or studio monitor) first. |
Yes, the Pa1x sends all 16 MIDI channels simultaneously on MIDI Out, but of course this bypasses the audio synthesis of the PA1x and just uses it as a MIDI sequencer or MIDI keyboard, for which there are much cheaper options on the market. If you want 16 separate audio outputs you will also need several very expensive PC-based sound generator modules. Most modules only give one pair of stereo audio outputs. A good option is the latest Creative Labs hardware and software which allows you to position each of 16 MIDI instruments anywhere in DOLBY 7.1 3D space.
You can also route audio outputs from the PA1x sound generators to use any combination of the 4 available audio outputs or to route sounds as two stereo pairs.
Best regards,
Rob |
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