Korg Forums

[leland_iko_music]

Hey all,

First of all, please do not let us get into any kind of flame-wars -- what I have posted below is purely of my own opinion from my own experience trying out the various alternatives to the PA5X -- and I am still a proud owner of my PA5X-88 despite my various gripes about it... but here we go !



As much as I currently enjoy everything that the PA5X has given me over the past year, and is still giving me (and which I'm still finding new every day) - I cannot neglect my sense of "buyers remorse" at this stage.

Firstly, I will freely admit that I probably should have gone for a workstation rather than an arranger, even though the PA5X does a "fair" job at both (though doing sequencing and layers is a long-winded process of programming it). Added information - most of what I do is liveloop and improvisation, and although I sometimes use the arranger functions, they are more of a hiderance to a help in what I want to achieve.

Please also bear in mind that when I purchased the PA5X, there was nothing else available in its class (except maybe the Genos)...

My pet peaves (in no specific order of precedence, it's just a culmination of all of these that make me wish ... IF ONLY I HAD GONE FOR.... (insert your favourite keyboard here))


- Piano sounds: After hearing several demonstration videos, I felt that the "standard" piano sounds were very close to the mark, whether it be for Steinway, Bosendorfer, Yamaha, etc. .. and even with the added keybed and damper effect sounds ... but helas .. ALL of those video "reviews" had actually significantly modified the built-in sounds.

- MIDI time/tempo synchronisation: I use equipment that requires tempo sychronisation for some applications. I have yet to this day to find out how the PA5X can either send or receive the tempo setting to any other device. I have both an RC505 loopstation and the computer connected via MIDI and while they can all "see" each other, they cannot see tempo synch under any configuration.

- MIDI controller buttons available: The only available user-assignable MIDI control buttons are the 1,2,3 buttons above the pitch-bend/articulation joystick. The PA5X has a matrix of 16 pads each with 4 possible permutations. NONE of these are available to send MIDI control signals. (according to Qui). this seems to be a complete waste of resources given that with the matrix, on any given [standard] configuration, there are no more than 16 functions assigned ... so basicallhy 3/4 of the capabilities of the matrix is not even used.

- Stereo Sound Quality: while at first glance and watching review videos, the sound quality sounds awesome, in reality, this requires a considerable amount of modification. At best, all of the built in sounds (in terms of stereo field) only range from about 45 degrees left or right of centre.

- Aftertouch: I find that the velocity of the aftertouch effect is almost akin to ON/OFF -- even though when looking at it through a MIDI analyser it does show the graduation of the effect. Audibly, however, it's either on or off, despite the velocity settings in the setup menu.

- Guitar sounds: for the most part these are pretty good more or less... but a good punchy lead electric guitar with sustain and using X/Y on the joystick for articulation and harmonics --- BIG FAIL

- Price range : this is definitely going to provoke riots in the streets... but for 5K Euros, at the time, there was nothing much in the market to justify the price or the quality against the competition... that changed RAPIDLY... Yamaha came out with the Montage about 6 months after I had already placed the order for the PA5X ... with a MUCH SHORTER delibery delay (I waited nearly 10 months for the PA5X ).


- Keybed: while I love the weighted hammer action, after a few months, the keys have started rattling as if there are tiny marbles inside each key rolling around side to side with each keypress.

- Intonation: I have found that over time several instruments become "detuned" from the reference 440hz. Since I do live looping, this is VERY noticeable when I select an instrument sound and it is a few Hz out of tune with what what just recorded. It's not really a case of trasposition, since those work in semitones, but I'm talking about quarter, eighth, or even sixteenth tones out of whack ! ... For some instruments, such as a lead guitar or a lead synth, I can almost compensate by using the pitchbend joystick, but it's not pretty AT ALL, and indeed the use of the joystick actuall exacerbates the problem -- in orther words, after NOT using the joystick, the pitch discrepancy is even MORE..

Some insteuments sounds are an entire semitone or more out of key -- for example under synth pads, "Wave Obsession" is a few hz more than a semitone FLAT of the base key. (to the point that even transposing it a semitone up stil leaves it a few hz flat).

You can actually hear this detuning phenomenon on some of my Youtube videos which are VODs from my Twitch streams... it has become especially prevalent in the past couple of months.

I had previously posted a comment on this forum about this detuning issue, and despite a couple hundred views, zero replies or comments... which is in and of itself disconcerting.

- Interaction by Korg with its customers/users : pretty much ZERO -- as has been highlighted MANY times in this forum.



Final analysis :

- Value for Money as an arranger: well, if you like purely an arranger doing purely arranger things, then 8/10.

- Value for Money as a hybrid arranger/workstation: 4/10

- Quality and realism of sounds: 7/10 - -while many of the souds are quite realistic, there are some which do not even correspond to the category of sound that the've even been placed into. in terms of stereo depth/width ... the vast majority of the sounds are lacking in every single way and unable to fill that "void" between left and right without major modifications to the envelopes.

- Quality of build/construction: 10/10 -- this baby is SOLID .. and VERY HEAVY compared to even my Kawai ES8 digital piano which is weighted like a friggin' Bosendorfer concert grand... Metal surfaces with a hardwood SIDE panels .. this thing is definltely PROFESSIONAL.. and definitely NOT a plastic substitute.

- Visibility of Controls: In general, i would say 7/10: besides the huge touch-screeen, which I give 11/10 for, the various other control buttons are very well lit (ONLY IN ARRANGER MODE). What is missing is back-lighting for the other buttons (perhaps in a totally different colour to distinguish them from performance affecting functions).
The actual slider positions (master volume and control sliders - top left) are impssible to see in low lighting conditions.. the Roland Fantom series back-lights these sliders so you can see at a glance what is going on.

Sub-category on visibility of controls: The pitch-bend/articulation joystick has those lit-up arrows pointing north,south,east,west, but never really indicate anything of use. At the very least, in my opinion, they should change colour to indicate a representation of the bend/articulation being employed... but sitting idly by with the arrows alluminated when you're not even playing anything seems like a total waste. When actually playing something -- NOBODY really even looks at the joystick... so there is really no point in that being even remotely back-lit in ANY colour - let alone the white that it is currently.


What would I have purchaesd instead given the choices of TODAY ?

As simply an arranger?
- Definitely the PA5X as number one. The workflow on the Genos, for exmple, I find very confusing by comparison... (though this is simply my own opinion)

All other criteria:


- YAMAHA Montage M8X (hadn't been released when I purchasd the PA5X -- the polyphonic aftertouch, however, is AMAZING -- and seriously lacking on all of the Korg products to date)

- Korg Kronos 2 (discontinued, but the Nautilus hadn't yet been announced)

- Korg Nautilus (great kit, but no aftertouch - and hadn't yet been released)

- Korg Nautilus AT (even better kit -- see above -- but aftertouch still global and not polyphonic -- see yamaha above)

- Yamaha ANYTHING for Piano sounds -- the CFX concert grand sound is incorporated into almost all of Yamaha's mid and high range keyboards and it's a heavenly sound. The Steinway D concert grand is also one of my favourites, but is not reliably reproduced on any hardware keyboard to date -- only a very few VSTs for DAW or real-time [Mainstage for example] applications come close.

- Availability of nearly same audio and reaction qualtiy but for less cost: This is where I think Yamaha, and to a certain extent even Roland, takes the gold trophy.

There is nothing really comparable to the PA5X as an arranger or Nautilus as a pure workstation in the mid-range by the same manufacturer. (around the 1k to 2k region instead of 4k to 5k) --

However, several other manufacturers have taken the best features from the flagship platforms and made them available in their mid-range products to allow a new sector of consumers to benefit -- this is not to say that they are taking away from the benefits or sales of the flagship models -- far from it since they also have MANY features and advatages that justify the additional expense.

Examples of the mid-range platforms with ALMOST near full features as those from which they were derrived: Yamaha MODX (mid-ranged between the flagship Montage and the mid-range DX synths) , Roland Fantom 0x (scaled down plastic casing and smaller footpring version of the Fantom 5, 7,


I will of course very much welcome any feedback and comments, or even suggestions on further enhacing my experience with the PA5X ..

Lots of love to everyone


Leland




[/u]
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Keyboards: Korg PA5X-88, Kawai ES8 | Loopstation Boss RC505mk2 | Boss FS-6 | Nektar Pacer | Multitrack Recording: Tascam 2488 | Software: OBS Studio, Loopback, Logic Pro X, Mainstage3

[QuiRobinez]

I don't want to comment on all your observations, because it's just your opinion, but for a few of them I will explain some of the theory to help you further.

[leland_iko_music]

Thanks for the feedback, Qui.

I can fully understand the "detuning" in pad sounds, and that is very much expected... what is happening with me is that even just SIMPLE sounds like a piano or lead guitar is often coming out a few Hz out of tune, and quite honestly it hurts my brain... I'll clip an example for you in a while from one of my Twitch streams where it REALLY sticks out like a sore thumb.

for the MIDI tempo synch, I'll go back and re-check my settings based on your recommendation.

Cheers!


Leland
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Keyboards: Korg PA5X-88, Kawai ES8 | Loopstation Boss RC505mk2 | Boss FS-6 | Nektar Pacer | Multitrack Recording: Tascam 2488 | Software: OBS Studio, Loopback, Logic Pro X, Mainstage3

[AntonySharmman]

[leland_iko_music]

[leland_iko_music]

[leland_iko_music]

@Qui

here's an example of several instruments going wildly out of tune ...
This gave me a major headache on stream last night

https://clips.twitch.tv/SingleToughWaspBleedPurple-IsrIkJd1xla75vg6

the EP and the Bell Pad were several Hz Sharp, and one of the Clav's was a few Hz flat ...

I'm definitely thinking that it's a sticky or malfunctioning pitch-bend since it gets exacerbated if I use it -- especially for a lead synth or lead guitar sound.

I am not sure what the mechanism is behind the joystick, whether it's rollers that can be simply cleaned, or whether it's potentiometers which may need replacing ... but this is becoming more and more annoying, not only for me, but for my viewers ... I am, however, more and more leaning towards a faulty pitch-bend joystick since SOMETIMES (not always) if I jiggle the thing left and right the instrument concerned comes back into tune...


Leland
_________________
Keyboards: Korg PA5X-88, Kawai ES8 | Loopstation Boss RC505mk2 | Boss FS-6 | Nektar Pacer | Multitrack Recording: Tascam 2488 | Software: OBS Studio, Loopback, Logic Pro X, Mainstage3

[F-Minor]

I feel sorry for you having buyer’s regret, I had the same feeling when I had bought the Nautilus after having done lots of research. It just wasn’t my instrument. After months of struggeling and worrying, I changed to PA5X and I’m happy with it since day 1. Good luck in your journey to find the gear that suits best to you!
_________________
Musical greetz,

F-Minor

PA5X 88 (& I love it! )

YT: https://www.youtube.com/@FransV2010

[AntonySharmman]

[voip]

If an unreliable pitch bend control is suspected, it might be possible to use a MIDI data viewer, like MIDI-OX, to view the MIDI messages coming from the Pa5X, and set MIDI-OX to filter out all the messages, except pitch bend.

Using MIDI-OX, I was able to discover only the other day, that my sustain pedal contacts were unreliable and in need of cleaning. All good now :-)
.