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D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1204
Location: UK (Dorset)
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:51 am Post subject: |
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@QuiRobinez>
Regarding copying over PA4X Factory Pad Folder, I did pursue this and asked my dealer for a copy of this file, as PA4X was on site with them, they kindly provide this and also tested the transfer procedure with the latest Update on PA5X and informed me the transfer was not complete and only working i part, so I decided not to bother because of that...
I may revisit this with the file referenced in this thread.
@AntonySharmman
You say older resources in the way of Styles and Pads carried over from previous out going model are generally not included with a replacement models in the Factory Pad Folder structure, but that creates a confusing image, because much of the Categorie Factory Pad Folders where carried over from PA3x to Pa4x despite these being old Styles and Pad from Pax3 to be included with new styles on Pa4x in those Factory Pad Folders, so when you compare Pa4x to Pa5x this then creates some confusion...
But again, you state> "because Style creators just converted
older styles and felt boring to update PADs."
That would then be reasonable to understand the frustration and confusion created here by Korg...
Again, AntonySharmman, you state> "I also begun to feel bored of grimling haters of Pa5X , that will worship it at the beginning of 2024"
Well all I can say about that statement, you fail to understand the frustration of many people, many who are well respected and clearly feeling let down by Korg, to say I am a hater (if that was directed at me?) Is not ture, I have been very complementary of what is good in PA5X from the beginning, but, like may others, feel the platform has been let down by its many problems (historically new for Korg with PA5X) and that would also include uses who are not upgrading from previous models to PA5X (I think they have also been clear in their reasoning) so again, I feel you are being dismissive of end users in there many foams...
And again, AntonySharmman, you state> "that showed its power to experts since 2022."
Then to an expert, PA5X under the hood may very well be powerful in some area’s, but critically to end users the increased note robbing in PA5X as seen and carried over from PA4X, with issues of insufficient polyphony, would to many contradict that sentiment, which has been recognised and discussed by others and not just myself....
For many end users, 160 notes of polyphony would seam disproportionate when you survey the landscape of other manufacturers and when considering all the extra dutys of PA5X...
And I do mean all this from a constructive point of view and always have done, but the lack of Public Relations from Korg has clearly upset large parts of the Korg tribe, and that could of largely, been avoided, had Korg engaged.
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :
Last edited by D575 on Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:37 am; edited 4 times in total |
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worth
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1098
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Very fair comment 👍 |
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Asena
Approved Merchant
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 2563
Location: Sweden/Malmoe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| D575 wrote: | @QuiRobinez>
Regarding copying over PA4X Factory Pad Folder, I did pursue this and asked my dealer for a copy of this file, as PA4X was on site with them, they kindly provide this and also tested the transfer procedure with the latest Update on PA5X and informed me the transfer was not complete and only working i part, so I decided not to bother because of that...
I may revisit this with the file referenced in this thread.
@AntonySharmman
You say older resources in the way of Styles and Pads carried over from previous out going model are generally not included with a replacement models in the Factory Pad Folder structure, but that creates a confusing image, because much of the Categorie Factory Pad Folders where carried over from PA3x to Pa4x despite these being old Styles and Pad from Pax3 to be included with new styles on Pa4x in those Factory Pad Folders, so when you compare Pa4x to Pa5x this then creates some confusion...
But again, you state> "because Style creators just converted
older styles and felt boring to update PADs."
That would then be reasonable to understand the frustration and confusion created here by Korg...
Again, AntonySharmman, you state> "I also begun to feel bored of grimling haters of Pa5X , that will worship it at the beginning of 2024"
Well all I can say about that statement, you fail to understand the frustration of many people, many who are well respected and clearly feeling let down by Korg, to say I am a hater (if that was directed at me?) Is not ture, I have been very complementary of what is good in PA5X from the beginning, but, like may others, feel the platform has been let down by its many problems (historically new for Korg with PA5X) and that would also include uses who are not upgrading from previous models to PA5X (I think they have also been clear in their reasoning) so again, I feel you are being dismissive of end users in there many foams...
And again, AntonySharmman, you state> "that showed its power to experts since 2022."
Then to an expert, PA5X under the hood may very well be powerful in some area’s, but critically to end users the increased note robbing in PA5X as seen and carried over from PA4X, with issues of insufficient polyphony, would to many contradict that sentiment, which has been recognised and discussed by others and not just myself....
For many end users, 160 notes of polyphony would seam disproportionate when you survey the landscape of other manufacturers and when considering all the extra dutys of PA5X...
And I do mean all this from a constructive point of view and always have done, but the lack of Public Relations from Korg has clearly upset large parts of the Korg tribe, and that could of largely, been avoided, had Korg engaged. |
Well said!
If you ask some here, they are the gurus,
But not everyone is astronauts,
Just stay focused on the real thing that I always wrote from
Day one.
Os is not the only thing.
We don’t have a product that is even close to 2023 .
Look what you can do with an app on your iOS iPad.
And what can you do with double style player if you use your old pa4x converted version of your set, osc s will eat up your kb!
Play a piano on top of that with a pad in the layer.
Plus slice pad or something else.
Drops are there.
And we are the haters???
Even my sons toy for 99 euro has far better screen.
The buttons cracks.
I have more to ad but I realize that, it’s not gonna change anything.
_________________
www.globalsound.se
KORG PA 5-X/YAMAHA GENOS 2/YAMAHA A 5000
LIONSTRACK X 76 & GROOVE XR
MEDELI AKX-10
MacbookproM2-Ssd/Logic/Neuman/Kali Audio8/Komplette14SDD/ Apollo Twin/PIONEER XDJ RX 2
LOTS OF SAMPLE SOUNDS!
KorgPaManager V 5 |
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QuiRobinez
Approved Merchant
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| D575 wrote: | @QuiRobinez>
Regarding copying over PA4X Factory Pad Folder, I did pursue this and asked my dealer for a copy of this file, as PA4X was on site with them, they kindly provide this and also tested the transfer procedure with the latest Update on PA5X and informed me the transfer was not complete and only working i part, so I decided not to bother because of that...
I may revisit this with the file referenced in this thread.
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just try it again, it's really easy to do (if you find it hard to load certain parts of a converted KSC file, then just watch my save and load backup tutorial how to do these kind of things).
if you don't succeed then sent me a private message and I will sent you a KSC file for the pa5x with the hundreds of pads and keyboard sets from the pa4x. |
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D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1204
Location: UK (Dorset)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| QuiRobinez wrote: | | D575 wrote: | @QuiRobinez>
Regarding copying over PA4X Factory Pad Folder, I did pursue this and asked my dealer for a copy of this file, as PA4X was on site with them, they kindly provide this and also tested the transfer procedure with the latest Update on PA5X and informed me the transfer was not complete and only working i part, so I decided not to bother because of that...
I may revisit this with the file referenced in this thread.
|
just try it again, it's really easy to do (if you find it hard to load certain parts of a converted KSC file, then just watch my save and load backup tutorial how to do these kind of things).
if you don't succeed then sent me a private message and I will sent you a KSC file for the pa5x with the hundreds of pads and keyboard sets from the pa4x. |
Thank you QuiRobinez, that is very kind of you, I will be in touch.
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer : |
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AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3598
Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I want only to clarify one thing that most of you fail to understand from 160 notes of polyphony of Pa5X.
- 256 maximum stated notes polyphony of some brands hardware samplers , is actually 128 notes polyphony for stereo samples
Pa5X has 160 notes of polyphony in stereo samples.
- Pa4X has 128 notes polyphony , but actually 64 notes polyphony for stereo samples , crystal clear of how superior
Pa5X sound engine is ...
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1204
Location: UK (Dorset)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| AntonySharmman wrote: | I want only to clarify one thing that most of you fail to understand from 160 notes of polyphony of Pa5X.
- 256 maximum stated notes polyphony of some brands hardware samplers , is actually 128 notes polyphony for stereo samples
Pa5X has 160 notes of polyphony in stereo samples.
- Pa4X has 128 notes polyphony , but actually 64 notes polyphony for stereo samples , crystal clear of how superior
Pa5X sound engine is ... |
OK, i expect and understand that...
But, PA5X specifically, could really do with more, that's my findings, as with other PA5X users...
Could this be increased with a software update? Or is it constrained, with a fixed position acording to hardware ??
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :
Last edited by D575 on Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3598
Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:08 am Post subject: |
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Your findings should be with factory resources and their architecture !
There are some fundamentals in custom sound development that should be followed due to avoid wasting notes polyphony.
For instance when you create under acknowledging custom SOUNDs that contains in parallel playing 24 OSC you already
waste 24 notes , if you use 3 of those Sounds active in Upper 1-3 then one simple chord will waste the whole polyphony ...
Many other settings can waste polyphony for instance if you use pads with extensive release time , plucked sounds with
infinitive release time that waste polyphony with no produced sound , using full piano with articulation in Style tracks with
extensively edited release , STS sounds that all of you have no clue of the magnitude of wasted polyphony.
That's why I don't ever pay any attention to complaints of users with custom / edited resources all have unknown flows.
Polyphony is strictly based on hardware DSP and CPU architecture.
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1204
Location: UK (Dorset)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| AntonySharmman wrote: | Your findings should be with factory resources and their architecture !
There are some fundamentals in custom sound development that should be followed due to avoid wasting notes polyphony.
For instance when you create under unacknowledged custom SOUNDs that contains in parallel playing 24 OSC you already
waste 24 notes , if you use 3 of those Sounds active in Upper 1-3 then one simple chord will waste the whole polyphony ...
Many other settings can waste polyphony for instance if you use pads with extensive release time , plucked sounds with
infinitive release time that waste polyphony with no produced sound , using full piano with articulation in Style tracks with
extensively edited release , STS sounds that all of you have no clue of the magnitude of wasted polyphony.
That's why I don't ever pay any attention to complaints of users with custom / edited resources all have unknown flows. |
That is useful and also interesting, thank you, for me I am still only using Factory sounds with no modifications to any sounds architecture at the moment, just to be clear, can I ask, do you feel that the Pa5X in its Factory condition suffers from wasted polyphony?
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer : |
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the_boss81
Full Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 126
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:24 am Post subject: |
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35 new styles - Ketron would have ripped off some €900 from you for this - no joke: https://www.ketron.it/en/music-software
I like my Pa5 very much and try not to waste time constantly complaining and making excuses.... BR! 
_________________
Sorry 4 my English - I only speak Polish & German & really like my Pa5X |
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10406
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| the_boss81 wrote: | | I like my Pa5 very much and try not to waste time constantly complaining and making excuses.... |
That's fantastic 👍 - but I haven't seen anyone "making excuses" so far, just really being frustrated with their incomplete very expensive product - also with, so far, no customer support. The "complaints" or whatever you like to call them, are essential in order to hopefully get it fixed and also help others figure out why certain features do not work or are simply not implemented.
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
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AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3598
Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| D575 wrote: | | can I ask, do you feel that the Pa5X in its Factory condition suffers from wasted polyphony? |
I'm a sound developer but also one man band player with vast demands , but I do not ever use any factory resources of
PaSeries all my resources are WavesArt sound libraries and styles , so I will tell you that in Pa4X I frequently had noticed
notes steals , in Kronos most of times in complex Combinations but in Pa5X this is completely eliminated.
Of course if you want to create that on purpose its easy to do if you create an STS with 3 of the most polyphony eaters
symphonic SOUNDs and add Ensemble mode , but in general it's rather difficult to create note stealing with ordinary factory
resources , the magnitude 64 Vs 160 shows you the potentials.
the_boss81 it's logical to pay 35-40 euros per style , it's not midi events but audio studio recordings , cost is 1/10
But still I prefer to put a CD of my favorite band in player and listen to , the same philosophy nothing creative there ...
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V
Last edited by AntonySharmman on Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1204
Location: UK (Dorset)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| AntonySharmman wrote: | | D575 wrote: | | can I ask, do you feel that the Pa5X in its Factory condition suffers from wasted polyphony? |
I'm a sound developer but also one man band player with vast demands , but I do not ever use any factory resources of
PaSeries all my resources are WavesArt sound libraries and styles , so I will tell you that in Pa4X I frequently had noticed
notes steals , in Kronos most of times in complex Combinations but in Pa5X this is completely eliminated.
Of course if you want to create that on purpose its easy to do if you create an STS with 3 of the most polyphony eaters
symphonic SOUNDs and add Ensemble mode , but in general it's rather difficult to create note stealing with ordinary factory
resources , the magnitude 64 Vs 160 shows you the potentials.
the_boss81 it's logical to pay 35-40 euros per style , it's not midi events but audio studio recordings , cost is 1/10. |
Thank you, I understand, I can only hope something can be done to help this issue in the future.
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer : |
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AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3598
Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| D575 wrote: | | I can only hope something can be done to help this issue in the future. |
there is no issue at all , as wrote , I can waste on purpose 1000 notes of polyphony , this is not an issue to resolve
but insane demand that might be overcome after 25 years with 48 track Styles.
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1204
Location: UK (Dorset)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| AntonySharmman wrote: | | D575 wrote: | | I can only hope something can be done to help this issue in the future. |
there is no issue at all , as wrote , I can waste on purpose 1000 notes of polyphony , this is not an issue to resolve
but insane demand that might be overcome after 25 years with 48 track Styles. |
OK, we may be at odds here, and I have to disagree, as I don't believe i am making "insane demand" on the system...
I can not give an accurate example at the moment, as i am not with PA5X until Sunday, so it might be useful to hold are thoughts for now.
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer : |
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