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Rockitman
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 282
Location: Cocoa Beach, FL USA
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 Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 7:33 pm Post subject: arranger detecting the wrong chords |
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I am using the arranger and sometimes the left hand detects the wrong chords even when I am very careful about playing simple triads. Has anyone else experienced this? I am on the latest firmware 1.1.
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PA5X-76, Nautilus-73, Kronos-73, M3-73, Radias-R, Triton Extreme 61, CX-3, N1R, Micro-X, Kontrol49, MicroStation, T3 workstation, Mini-Korg 700s, RK100s, MS-20i controller |
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QuiRobinez
Approved Merchant
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2547
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: arranger detecting the wrong chords |
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| Rockitman wrote: | | I am using the arranger and sometimes the left hand detects the wrong chords even when I am very careful about playing simple triads. Has anyone else experienced this? I am on the latest firmware 1.1. |
yes, i've noticed that too, it's different then on the pa4x. the best way is to disable the inverse bass, and also don't hit notes outside the two octave range to build your chords (voicing technique).
For instance an a-minor chord will go wrong if you play:
A1 - A2 - E3 - C3
It will play correctly if you play:
A2 - E3 - C3
or
A2 - A1 - E3 - C3
Especially the latest chord is odd, because it's the same as the first played chord (A1 - A2 - E3 - C3), so when starting to form a triad with a note started outside that 2 octave range the system will behave strange.
I'm used to it now, but it probably will be fixed (if they know it). |
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rikkisbears
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1697
Location: NSW , Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: arranger detecting the wrong chords |
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| Rockitman wrote: | | I am using the arranger and sometimes the left hand detects the wrong chords even when I am very careful about playing simple triads. Has anyone else experienced this? I am on the latest firmware 1.1. |
Hi, are you playing in split mode?
What setting are you using?
I only play in split mode , fairly simple chords maj, 6ths, 7ths, can’t say I’ve had any problems.
I did try what Qui mentioned a while back when he brought it up, without split ,and I had wrong chords playing, just as he noted.
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best wishes
Rikki
HOBBYIST
PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano
Yamaha PSR SX900
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AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3631
Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: arranger detecting the wrong chords |
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| rikkisbears wrote: | | ... without split , and I had wrong chords playing |
Rikki , every of 4 KBD Sets in a Style has a independent split point (if not locked) and this is the limit that played chord notes are recognized.
If you disable keybed split and only lower scan is enabled then chord recognition still works under this limit.
If you want to play your fine piano in entire keybed and chord recognition function to calculate all playing notes then you have also to enable
upper scan switch and use primary advanced mode chord recognition.
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Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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rikkisbears
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1697
Location: NSW , Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: arranger detecting the wrong chords |
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double post
_________________
best wishes
Rikki
HOBBYIST
PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano
Yamaha PSR SX900
Band in a Box 2023
Last edited by rikkisbears on Wed May 10, 2023 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rikkisbears
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1697
Location: NSW , Australia
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 11:43 pm Post subject: Re: arranger detecting the wrong chords |
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| AntonySharmman wrote: | | rikkisbears wrote: | | ... without split , and I had wrong chords playing |
Rikki , every of 4 KBD Sets in a Style has a independent split point (if not locked) and this is the limit that played chord notes are recognized.
If you disable keybed split and only lower scan is enabled then chord recognition still works under this limit.
If you want to play your fine piano in entire keybed and chord recognition function to calculate all playing notes then you have also to enable
upper scan switch and use primary advanced mode chord recognition. |
Hi Antony,
I should have written in “Advanced mode”, not no split. I wasn’t near my keyboard and couldn’t think of what terminology Korg used. Yamaha call theirs full keyboard if the entire keybed is used. I think at one stage it was pianist mode, unless that was my technics haha. Gets confusing. Didn’t want to use the wrong terminology.😀
I don’t normally use it, but I do know how it works.
Thank you Antony.
_________________
best wishes
Rikki
HOBBYIST
PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano
Yamaha PSR SX900
Band in a Box 2023 |
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QuiRobinez
Approved Merchant
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2547
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 7:06 am Post subject: Re: arranger detecting the wrong chords |
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| AntonySharmman wrote: | | rikkisbears wrote: | | ... without split , and I had wrong chords playing |
Rikki , every of 4 KBD Sets in a Style has a independent split point (if not locked) and this is the limit that played chord notes are recognized.
If you disable keybed split and only lower scan is enabled then chord recognition still works under this limit.
If you want to play your fine piano in entire keybed and chord recognition function to calculate all playing notes then you have also to enable
upper scan switch and use primary advanced mode chord recognition. |
cool, that's what I want 
where can I find that upper scan switch ? (I couldn't find it on the pa5x) |
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jbd59
Junior Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 84
Location: FRANCE
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 7:53 am Post subject: |
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hello , hope you'r kidding Qui ! the 2 buttons are beside each other on the panel Lower , Upper !
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rikkisbears
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1697
Location: NSW , Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Hi Qui, it works. When I checked it for you a couple of weeks back, I must have forgotten to turn on the upper button too , as I got the same result as you.🫢 Checked the different settings, but,
Embarrassing as I supposedly know how it works.🙁
Thanks Antony.
_________________
best wishes
Rikki
HOBBYIST
PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano
Yamaha PSR SX900
Band in a Box 2023 |
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QuiRobinez
Approved Merchant
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2547
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| jbd59 wrote: | hello , hope you'r kidding Qui ! the 2 buttons are beside each other on the panel Lower , Upper !
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hahahaha, how could I missed that!
Thanks Antony,
it solves the A1 - A2 - E3 - C4 chord structure.
But even on advanced mode with the upper activated it still needs those three notes in a range of 2 octaves. So if you play A1 - E3 - C4 (with full keyboard scanning, it doesn't recognise it as an A minor.
But that's ok, i can play octaves in the bass and that will solve it during play. I'm really happy that this A1 - A2 sequence now works.
again thanks for mentioning it Antony! |
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Rockitman
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 282
Location: Cocoa Beach, FL USA
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:56 am Post subject: Thanks |
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Thank you,everyone. I was using split mode, as full was giving me some chord recognition issues as well. I will look at split point and ranges as well. I played one song with chords G
D C, the D kept being detected as D7 even though I was playing D triad Now I have an FCB1010 connected, as well as an alesis vortex connected via CME widi, bluetooth midi wireless to the pedals merge midi in. I was seeing something especially odd. I was playing a Bm triad and it was being detected as a Cm7, which was weird. After a reboot it worked ok. It definitely is more consistent in split mode.
_________________
PA5X-76, Nautilus-73, Kronos-73, M3-73, Radias-R, Triton Extreme 61, CX-3, N1R, Micro-X, Kontrol49, MicroStation, T3 workstation, Mini-Korg 700s, RK100s, MS-20i controller |
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AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3631
Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| QuiRobinez wrote: | But even on advanced mode with the upper activated it still needs those three notes in a range of 2 octaves.
So if you play A1 - E3 - C4 (with full keyboard scanning, it doesn't recognise it as an A minor. |
You'd better try 3 fingered chord for distant 3 notes , advanced chord recognition requires precise quantization in distant notes
and is perfect for recognizing harmony of piano playing especially when lower octaves are involved.
Generally chord recognition in Pa5X is too fast compared to Pa4X and should had a slew rate adjustment / compensation !
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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rikkisbears
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1697
Location: NSW , Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Thanks |
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| Rockitman wrote: | Thank you,everyone. I was using split mode, as full was giving me some chord recognition issues as well. I will look at split point and ranges as well. I played one song with chords G
D C, the D kept being detected as D7 even though I was playing D triad Now I have an FCB1010 connected, as well as an alesis vortex connected via CME widi, bluetooth midi wireless to the pedals merge midi in. I was seeing something especially odd. I was playing a Bm triad and it was being detected as a Cm7, which was weird. After a reboot it worked ok. It definitely is more consistent in split mode. |
Hi , I use 3 finger chord mode with split. I don’t have any problems. It even plays chords correctly for my sx900 keyboard, which I have connected via midi.
Could your pedal setup somehow be interfering? ie are you confident about your midi settings.
Took a bit trial and error to get my settings correct for PA5x/sx900 setup.
_________________
best wishes
Rikki
HOBBYIST
PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano
Yamaha PSR SX900
Band in a Box 2023 |
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Rockitman
Senior Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 282
Location: Cocoa Beach, FL USA
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 11:15 am Post subject: Thanks |
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I agree I am suspicious that my MIDI setup may be causing problems.
I can change some settings and see if that does the trick.
_________________
PA5X-76, Nautilus-73, Kronos-73, M3-73, Radias-R, Triton Extreme 61, CX-3, N1R, Micro-X, Kontrol49, MicroStation, T3 workstation, Mini-Korg 700s, RK100s, MS-20i controller |
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rikkisbears
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1697
Location: NSW , Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Hi, basically I switched all the midi channels to off, and then just turned on the ones I needed.
For my SX900 setup, I needed 4 outs.
For my iPad songbook plus software, I think it just uses a single midi in.
Do you have the problem when pedal set up is not connected?
_________________
best wishes
Rikki
HOBBYIST
PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano
Yamaha PSR SX900
Band in a Box 2023 |
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