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keyboard
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Mar 2002
Posts: 248
Location: Canada
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keyboard
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Mar 2002
Posts: 248
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| rikkisbears wrote: | | D575 wrote: | | rikkisbears wrote: | Hi, update for Korg is a month or 2 away ( wait and see how they go this time😬. Maybe they’ll get it right. )
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Cautiously Optimistic ? |
Hi , let’s see, I’ll stick with cautiously optimistic .😀 haha.
It’s just a horrid situation, for some the keyboard is a nightmare in it’s current state, for others not so much. I’m just getting on with it. Putting together a songbook, recording chord sequences, editing the odd style.
Just hope for everyone else’s sake , they sort it.😞 |
I am actively seeking a PA5X 76
_________________
http://createsongstyles.com
https://www.yamahastylesonly.com
https://www.midisafe.com |
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mamero
Joined: 31 Mar 2023
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| NAMM '23 is now in full swing (April 13-15). So far there has been no news from either KORG on the PA5X or Yamaha on the GENOS. Was the wait in vain? Perhaps I missed some info somewhere or it has not been announced yet? |
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G
Junior Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2017
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mamero wrote: | | NAMM '23 is now in full swing (April 13-15). So far there has been no news from either KORG on the PA5X or Yamaha on the GENOS. Was the wait in vain? Perhaps I missed some info somewhere or it has not been announced yet? |
Korg really wasn't slated to show off anything at NAMM this year...
There was a lot of rumors that Yamaha was going to either announce a new Genos or Montage at NAMM - but that didn't transpire... |
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mamero
Joined: 31 Mar 2023
Posts: 5
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rikkisbears
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1691
Location: NSW , Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hi , might be. Happened here with Pa4x about 4 years ago, prices had dropped, there were a heap for sale on eBay ( new ones) . Thought it was a sign, sold my Pa4x, and no replacement for another 3 years.😟
Wouldn’t do that again, next time I’d wait for an official announcement.
_________________
best wishes
Rikki
HOBBYIST
PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano
Yamaha PSR SX900
Band in a Box 2023 |
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QuiRobinez
Approved Merchant
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:01 am Post subject: Re: KORG PA5X - Should I? |
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| mamero wrote: |
...
My main goal for an arranger is for the styles, jamming, and composing. I have a full studio of synth gear etc which sometimes is cumbersome. I want something I can just sit down at, power up, and play and explore new ideas. When I first began music many years ago I began with arrangers and they were a great tool for woodshedding ideas and composing.
...
Thoughts? Thanks for the feedback and direction. |
Your main goal is exactly why I have keyboards in my studio. I have the Genos and the Pa5x (I had a Pa4x before so I can compare them).
my opinion would be that for jamming and composing purposes, nothing comes close to the Korg Keyboards. The styles leaves a lot of room to do your own thing and they sound like a real band is playing with you a long.
The Yamaha Genos is a much more closed system (although you can expand it with external software called YEM), but the edit possibilities of styles and sounds are less than with the korg keyboards.
I've read comments that style edit isn't that great on the pa5x, but my opinion is the opposite. The pa5x is a big step upwards, mainly due to the rewritten Gui and menu options and the capacitive touchscreen. It's really easy now to:
- modify your existing styles
- combine style elements from eachother in assembly mode
- create new sounds in the included synthesizer
- modify sounds in the style on synth edit level, use the MANY effects on all the elements
- replace drum sounds in existing drum kits with your own samples (like for instance high impact dance kicks in an existing dance drum kit)
- record your own parts in styles
- create your own pads in combinations of four
- Mute up till 16 channels independently during play in matrix mode 4! this is a real performance power thing
- setup your own performance controls to the buttons and sliders
and you can store al lot of these things in your songbook. It's really impressive once you dive in. The yamaha genos can't do all these things, although the chord sequencer and the four pad implementation is better on the genos.
That doesn't mean that it's perfect yet:
- I've had a few spontaneous reboots during programming (especially when using the copy feature), but never during normal playing.
- Also some of the factory styles aren't correct. For instance the Horror movie style is wrong. The drum in the factory style section are playing wrong sounds in that style, if I load that same style from my korg pa4x set in the pa5x then it sounds correctly. So something went wrong during their revoicing. Probably some of the others will have the same problem. It's not a big deal because it's easy to fix, but it's something you wouldn't expect
- Also it looks like the chord recognition in full keyboard scan mode seems to have some problems when using Voiced chords (you can hear that in my Angels Choir demo on my youtube channel). If you use chord voicings over two octaves apart it doesn't seem to recognise the chord. This wasn't a problem on the pa4x.
- the import of external custom midi files with labels to create your own new styles seems to be broken (although i didn't tried this yet, but it's reported by multiple people on forums)
Also it's missing some of the features of the pa4x which for me are no issue, but maybe it is for you.
Missing:
- Kaos effect pad (will be added later according to the korg site)
- style creator bot, which will convert a midi file to a style (will be added later in an other way according to the korg site). Personally i found the results of this creator bot quite bad on the pa4x. It was much easier to create a style in cubase and import that one on the pa4x.
But basically these are all the issues i've discovered until now and i'm a real power user and do the following things:
- modify styles in style edit mode
- create new sounds in the synthesizer in the pa5x
- add new sample libraries (created with samplerobot)
- revoicing midi files (this is also really easy now on the pa5x)
- and much more.
So, my opinion is that in version OS1.10 a lot of all the mentioned bugs are solved. It isn't perfect yet, but it's a good step in the right direction |
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AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3598
Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:43 am Post subject: Re: KORG PA5X - Should I? |
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| QuiRobinez wrote: | my opinion is that in version OS1.10 a lot of all the mentioned bugs are solved. It isn't perfect yet,
but it's a good step in the right direction |
Sound editor has a major issue with real stereo samples , after compression they are destroyed with artifacts and noises.
But main sound engine works fine with pair MS that's why WavesArt has already created extraordinary sound libraries gaining
the 8 Gb samples size feature of Pa5X.
Concerning Styles , Pa5X is already ready to plug in and play factory Styles with minor edits like copying elements and remapping
track instruments but stops there.
An advanced style developer has serious issues in Style editor compared to Pa4X.
- A whole Style editing page is missing with essential functions of copying/erasing/deleting/quantizing specific track measurements ...
- Creating a simple CV INTRO1/END1 Style from scratch or importing a similar from Pa4X , do not work properly in chord recognition
and recognize only a simple irrelevant minor or minor chord constantly.
- Time slice sample when saved do not create Mid file for importing events in tracks so percussion loops are impossible to be created in Pa5X.
- There no independent time signature per style element like in all PaSeries only a single time signature is registered and will be the
same in all elements Vars/fills.
- Τhere is no master track due to create tempo changes in elements.
I have published examples & samples for replicating all above issues in Pa5X OSv1.1 issues & bugs topic.
I hope this helps
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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QuiRobinez
Approved Merchant
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:50 am Post subject: Re: KORG PA5X - Should I? |
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| AntonySharmman wrote: | | QuiRobinez wrote: | my opinion is that in version OS1.10 a lot of all the mentioned bugs are solved. It isn't perfect yet,
but it's a good step in the right direction |
Sound editor has a major issue with real stereo samples , after compression they are destroyed with artifacts and noises.
But main sound engine works fine with pair MS that's why WavesArt has already created extraordinary sound libraries gaining
the 8 Gb samples size feature of Pa5X.
Concerning Styles , Pa5X is already ready to plug in and play factory Styles with minor edits like copying elements and remapping
track instruments but stops there.
An advanced style developer has serious issues in Style editor compared to Pa4X.
- A whole Style editing page is missing with essential functions of copying/erasing/deleting/quantizing specific track measurements ...
- Creating a simple CV INTRO1/END1 Style from scratch or importing a similar from Pa4X , do not work properly in chord recognition
and recognize only a simple irrelevant minor or minor chord constantly.
- Time slice sample when saved do not create Mid file for importing events in tracks so percussion loops are impossible to be created in Pa5X.
- There no independent time signature per style element like in all PaSeries only a single time signature is registered and will be the
same in all elements Vars/fills.
- Τhere is no master track due to create tempo changes in elements.
I have published examples & samples for replicating all above issues in Pa5X OSv1.1 issues & bugs topic.
I hope this helps |
thanks Antony for sharing your experiences!
I've did some tests with compression and reloading of the sample backups. That worked correctly, but I only use mono samples for the left and right channel (that's the way samplerobot exports them in KMP/KSC format). So I will do this test also with some stereo samples to see if these are messed up during compression and reloading of the backup. Thanks for mentioning this.
for me the copying (assembly) and remapping and occasionally recording / replacing certain parts in a style is enough, and that's all supported in OS 1.10, but I can imagine that the things you are mentioning are quite important if you are creating styles entirely from scratch on the pa5x itself.
On the pa4x I did the creation of new styles, but I did that in Cubase which has a lot of features to do all these kind of things. But I didn't test it yet in the pa5x but as I said in my previous post, people are reporting issues with the midi file import feature. So that probably doesn't work correctly yet. But I would never create a style from scratch on the pa4x or pa5x, I would find that a to cumbersome process, cubase is much more suited for that.
The mastertrack and different time signatures per variation is a very specific user case. I have no doubt that only a few (very experienced style developers) will use these kind of features. So it definitely should be added to the pa5x in the future to support also these kind of users.
I hope you have some good contacts with Korg Italy, I think the product will benefit from your experiences with the pa5x.
Another question, do you know if there is a possibility on the Pa5x to export a KST file with my custom sounds only including the stored Samples with it?
I could find the option save all, which obviously makes a dump of the user sounds and the complete PCM folder, but then i would also have all the other sounds in my sample memory in my sound set KSC file. Which I absolutely don't want. I saw that you can export multisamples, but that is per multisample only. I would like to have a package of my sounds with the used samples in memory, is this possible? |
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AntonySharmman
Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 3598
Location: Hellas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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- INTRO1/END1 are causing the same issue I described where ever style is made Cubase Logic or Pa4X.-
- Pa5X has the real stereo samples feature that 2 channels L - R are using only 1 note polyphony like in Kronos , unlike yours &
Pa4X classic pair format that use 2 notes polyphony for stereo sounds , but there is no way to import them by any sample
format instead of importing manually every stereo sample and engine pairs them as one sample cost in polyphony.
Importing them are working fine until you compress them and then randomly 33% of them are destroyed.
I did it with WavesArt Yamaha CFX Grand where we need full polyphony and it was a disaster , since we can't leave 2 GB of
samples uncompressed in this 4GB Ram limit ...
- KorgPa developers are aware of most of issues since last year !
Concerning your specific resources
Import your whole Pa4X project , open created KST folder open SOUND and choose of what banks or specific sounds you want
to load , and then do the same with KEYBOARDSET & PAD folders.
Only used by them samples will be loaded !
Then You can save only your samples / sounds / PAD & KBD SET in a KST folder , saving partially
- SAMPLING
- SOUND
- PAD
- KEYBOARD SET
- SETTINGS
and check box of overwrite
Else you can save all and just delete all other folders except above mentioned !
This KST folder will contain only samples and elements of your targeted resources.
Hope this helps
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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mamero
Joined: 31 Mar 2023
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu May 25, 2023 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a lead on a PA4X but not sure if that's the path to go. Should I go that route and save some $$ on the 5X? Or, hold out for KORG to come through with the 5X? (or Yamaha to release a Genos 2). It's almost certain that when KORG does finally "fix" the 5X the value of 4X's will drop. The question is by how much and how fast. At this stage I might kick myself if I buy a 4X after waiting so long only for KORG to finally update the 5X a couple months later. If i decided to upgrade to the 5X I'm stuck with a depreciated 4X that is hard to sell for what I just recently paid for it. |
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10404
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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@mamero
I don't think the 4x price will drop heavily and it is a case of how quickly do you want to have and play a stable, reliable keyboard.
I, too, am wanting a 5x but am still concerned about the delay in fixing it. I has been nearly 6 months since update #1 which has not fixed the non-working features.
If this is delayed much longer, I will look for and buy a PA4x-61 as a backup keyboard and hold out for the PA6x.
Genos 2 will be slightly interesting - the fact that it is a "Genos" probably means that it will not have a new OS (same old Tyros) but stranger things have happened eh!!!
So, if you are prepared to wait for an undermined amount of time, just hang on to what you have otherwise a PA4x is definitely NOT a bad choice IMHO.
Good luck 
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| karmathanever wrote: | @mamero
I don't think the 4x price will drop heavily and it is a case of how quickly do you want to have and play a stable, reliable keyboard.
I, too, am wanting a 5x but am still concerned about the delay in fixing it. I has been nearly 6 months since update #1 which has not fixed the non-working features.
If this is delayed much longer, I will look for and buy a PA4x-61 as a backup keyboard and hold out for the PA6x.
Genos 2 will be slightly interesting - the fact that it is a "Genos" probably means that it will not have a new OS (same old Tyros) but stranger things have happened eh!!!
So, if you are prepared to wait for an undermined amount of time, just hang on to what you have otherwise a PA4x is definitely NOT a bad choice IMHO.
Good luck |
As soon as they produce more then they can presell, prices will drop. In general here in Europe at some moment the price people actually pay drops bu about €1000. Still a lot of money..
I bought my pa4x 76 back then at €2600, brand new, but paralel import assumably at that price.. i bought my Genos 6 months old for €2800, the first owner paid €3200..
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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Rob Sherratt
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 4590
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I am sticking with my Pa4x until the beta testers (lol) say the Pa5x major bugs are fixed. The problems reported by @Anthony Sharman would frustrate me too much. I'm also very happy with my Pa4x and I see only downsides if I swapped for a Pa5x. |
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rikkisbears
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 1691
Location: NSW , Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob Sherratt wrote: | | I am sticking with my Pa4x until the beta testers (lol) say the Pa5x major bugs are fixed. The problems reported by @Anthony Sharman would frustrate me too much. I'm also very happy with my Pa4x and I see only downsides if I swapped for a Pa5x. |
Hi Rob
long time no see. How are you.😃
I’d be inclined to wait for the next update. Due shortly, we hope.
_________________
best wishes
Rikki
HOBBYIST
PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano
Yamaha PSR SX900
Band in a Box 2023 |
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