Korg Forums

[ChrisDuncan]

Hey, guys.

I'm revisiting a cat I was trying to skin some time ago.

In addition to the Kronos I have a Prophet 6 and a JV 2080. I have a midi matrix and all the communication is going well in terms of connectivity. I can set up a combi to include the other two units, adjust the volume for each and it all plays together.

My problem is the set list and program changes. When I change to a different entry in the set list, it fires off a program change to everyone. Naturally, the patches I have set on the Prophet and JV have no numerical relationship to the given combi I'm using.

I found that I can go into the midi filters in the combi and disable program change on the those two channels, so that keeps them from being changed to random patches whenever I bring up the combi. So far, so good.

What I'm trying to figure out how to do is tell the combi which program change value to send to each unit instead of whatever the set list is sending. This is where I hit a wall. I'm not finding the right section in the manual to tell me how the program changes work for the set list, or for how to specify them in the combi.

The Kronos does everything but cook breakfast in the morning so it seems like there should be a way to accomplish this, but I haven't found it. Any ideas?
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Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
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Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

[CliveJ]

Hi There!

Firstly I assume that neither of your other synths are using the same MIDI channel as Kronos Global. There are then two ways to achieve your goal.

In the MIDI tab of the combi either:-

1. Set the combi channel status to EXT. Then select a Kronos program slot in it that corresponds to the program you want in the external synth. I do this with my HydraSynth.

Or 2. Set the combi channel status to EX2. You will now be able to select a bank MSB/, LSB and program number separately to send to the synth. I’ve never used this method so maybe somebody will chime in if I’ve misunderstood how it works.

See pages 429 and 469 of the Parameters Guide.
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Now let’s think of a reason why it CAN be done...

[ChrisDuncan]

Hey, Clive.

That's exactly the kind of info I was hoping for. And yes, the Kronos is 1G and the others are channels 2 and 3 respectively.

I currently have them set to EXT, so I can try that patch method first. That'll probably work fine with the Prophet. The JV 2080 has a lot of expansion cards, so I'm not sure if it will require more. However, now that I know where to look in the Parameters Guide I can also play with the EX2 approach.

When I'm recording in Cubase it's easy enough to set each track, but a lot of times I want to just sit down and play without a computer involved, so I think this will get my where I want to go.

Thanks, man!
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Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

[CliveJ]

Pleasure to be of help.

I forgot to mention that sometimes the program number sent by Kronos appears to select an external program that is one off from what you expect. On some devices program 0 is actually displayed as program 1. No biggy, but can cause confusion.
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Now let’s think of a reason why it CAN be done...

[ChrisDuncan]

Thanks, Clive. I'm a software developer, so I'm familiar with the zero vs one based stuff. You just figure out which it is and go from there, so like you said, not a biggie.
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

[ChrisDuncan]

Okay, so far, so good.

For those interested in the EX2 MSB / LSB approach, it works as you'd expect. This allowed me to set the bank on the JV 2080 across the various expansion cards. I recall some sysex voodoo with Cubase and the 2080 but now remember that was to switch in and out of Performance Mode, so not a factor here.

The program changes are indeed 1 based rather than 0 (a curious choice), but other than that it worked great. That said, it might be worth noting that while the program changes start at 1, the MSB / LSB are 0 based. So, MSB 80 / LSB 0 to the JV 2080 brings up the user bank as expected, but I have to subtract 1 from the program change value. An odd combination, but it works as long as you know they're set up differently.

The next thing I'm trying to debug is playback from Cubase. I have a combi with four internal Kronos sounds, one channel pointing to the 2080 and one pointing to the Prophet. When I'm playing the Kronos keyboard, all six sounds are heard. However, when I playback the midi pointing to the Kronos channel 1 with this combi selected, I only hear the four Kronos voices. The midi doesn't make it through to the 2080 or Prophet.

I looked through all the midi stuff in the combi as well as the Globals page, as well as the Combi section in the parameters guide, and couldn't see anything that might explain this. It seems like there's some kind of "midi thru - off" setting that prevents incoming midi from being routed through the combi and out to the external devices, but I've yet to track it down.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to get the external channels of a combi to play when receiving midi rather than playing the Kronos keyboard?
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

[CliveJ]

Thanks for the info.

Apparently MIDi through does not work for USB:-

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=123951

That’s a shame. You could work around it with MIDI cables or wireless MIDI, but it’s not an efficient solution imho.

That said, I do use CME WIDI devices and they do work very well. (I have no relation to the company)
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Now let’s think of a reason why it CAN be done...

[ChrisDuncan]

Thanks, Clive.

I hadn't considered USB to physical MIDI interaction, but it makes sense that there are architectural boundaries between the two.

In addition to the Kronos being connected via USB, 5 pin MIDI in / out is also connected to the MIDI matrix. That lets me send the Kronos keyboard to the other two. However, for Cubase I'm talking to it via USB.

I'm not gigging, so this setup is just for playing and recording. There are various workarounds I could use, such as duplicating the MIDI track to have one sending to the 2080 and one to the Prophet. However, what I usually do is get a good take and then render the audio and mute the MIDI track, so I can just do separate render passes for the other two. Or dupe the MIDI tracks and render all three at once.

The main use of the combi that I wanted to get working was to be able to hear the entire composite sound as I'm playing so I can work on the song and hear the complete sound. With your help I've accomplish that. Every device has its limitations, so I just needed to understand them in order to know how to get things done.

As Keith Emerson once told a synth company sales rep who was getting into all the technical details, "I don't need to know how it works. I just need to know how to work it."
_________________
Studio: Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Yamaha TF5 | Mackie MCU | CMC AI, QC
Keyboard Station: Kronos 2 88 | Fantom 7 | JV 2080 | Cubase 13 | Windows 10 | Focusrite 18i20 | CMC TP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Duncan
Atlanta, GA, USA, Earth

[CliveJ]

Again a pleasure. I enjoy these conundrums and I generally manage to learn a bit along the way.

Enjoy
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Now let’s think of a reason why it CAN be done...