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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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 Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: PSU assembly details |
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| projectaspen wrote: | Hi,
could you give more details on how you connected a Seasonic PSU to the Kronos? How did you make the adapter? |
I ordered various parts from DigiKey and the like. There are two methods to connect a Seasonic PSU (or any other brand for that matter):
1) Create an adapter - this option leaves your Kronos' PSU connections as is.
2) Create new wire runs off of the Seasonic PSU connector to the motherboard and various other power-required PCBs
This picture best illustrates the coupler/adapter (the black tape wasn't needed but added as additional insurance that nothing came undone in the event the Kronos was moved/shipped around a lot in the future):
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49803806541_a35dd034f4_b.jpg
For what I did in 1), you'll need to order various Molex ATX-like connectors (something like this but with the correct number of PINs/slots to interface with the Kronos' power connector (20 pin, IIRC): https://www.highflow.nl/images/watermarked/1/detailed/19/82137_1.jpg). FWIR, you'll need to undo all the pins coming from the Seasonic connector and 'map' the voltages coming from the Seasonic to this 20 pin connector going tot he Kronos. You'll also need two/three other types of connectors, one for the Korg main audio board and another for the SSD or fan (I think?) and another for the Seasonic's PSU power line (this takes a standard IEC power socket but you'll need to make a coupler for the 4 pin-connector coming from the Kronos' main power line). There may be another connector I may be missing, but once you get it taken apart, you'll need to map the required voltages to the correct boards. When you take apart one end of the Seasonic's PSU connectors and route the correct wire voltage to the adapter/connector similarly noted above, you'll needing extra long header pins (like: https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/images/2581/PEC14SAFN,%20PEC14SAGN,%20PEC014AHN.jpg) such that the connector pins from adapter/coupler makes a male configuration connector between the Seasonic and Kronos. You will also need a tool to take out the PSU wires from the existing Seasonic connector, thin twezers is what I used. And a tool crimper and connectors to make new connections to the new power coupler, like these items:
https://www.moddiy.com/products/Professional-Molex-Crimping-Tool.html
One other thing is the mounting bracket modification that is needed. You'll need to open the Seasonic case and drill 4 holes on the bottom of its case and attach the two metal brackets that comes with the Kronos so that the Seasonic could be mounted to the Kronos. This (or similar) would need to be done regardless of which option you go with 1 vs 2.
I can get more specifics and part numbers if you are 100% sure you are going to go this route. It requires some DIY and understanding of basic electronics as you don't want to supply the wrong voltages and do damage to other components, like the mother board.
To be honest, it would be simpler to go with option 2), but the downside is that if one needs to replace the Kormos' PSU again, they won't be able to drop in a stock PSU. Option1) gives the flexibility to use either power supplies. If you plan on keeping your Kronos, go with option 2) as the Seasonic PSU is far better and comes with Japanese caps.
I know there is a lot of info there, and far from complete (and very unclear). Will refine and provide more details, if you elect to go forward. |
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BlackForest
Full Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 210
Location: German, Black Forest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your explanation average_male. I think i will need to replace my psu soon after all. The Kronos seems to play up again...
I was wondering if this model of psi could work. The only voltage that is not same to the OEM part is the -12V : there the amps are lower than what the Korg psu can deliver.. I think 0.3 A versus 0.5 A.. It probably does matter?
https://www.bicker.de/en/beh-531h_industrial_pc_power_supply_1u_300w_90-264v_flex-atx_ac-dc_62368-1#
Other than that is the wiring not pretty same to the Kronos unit? I probably only understand fully when I have the Kronos open and the ps and wiring in front of me.
_________________
Kronos 2-88 & X73, Kurzweil MicroPiano, Spitfire Albion V Tundra, BBCO Core, Nylon Guitar Ilya Efimov, Xtant Audio Uilleann Pipes - in use
Korg DS-8, Roland D-10, M1Rex, Wavestation, Korg SP-280, JV2080, Wavestate, Kronos LS - all RIP |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| BlackForest wrote: | Thanks for your explanation average_male. I think i will need to replace my psu soon after all. The Kronos seems to play up again...
I was wondering if this model of psi could work. The only voltage that is not same to the OEM part is the -12V : there the amps are lower than what the Korg psu can deliver.. I think 0.3 A versus 0.5 A.. It probably does matter?
https://www.bicker.de/en/beh-531h_industrial_pc_power_supply_1u_300w_90-264v_flex-atx_ac-dc_62368-1#
Other than that is the wiring not pretty same to the Kronos unit? I probably only understand fully when I have the Kronos open and the ps and wiring in front of me. |
Well, to your point about the -12V, looking at the datasheet, seems that it doesn't have a -12V output: https://www.bicker.de/files/downloads/datenblatt/beh-531h_e.pdf
but rather it seems to refer to -12 voltage protection.
Based on the fact that this is a Flex-ATX, the voltages should not be an issue. The known issue, or item that needs to be addressed, are
1) the power connector, the Kronos has a 4 pin connector (FWIC just uses 2 pins for power) but this PSU has the standard IEC power socket. Not a big deal and one of the easier connectors to modify.
2) There appears to be a 2 pin connector required by the Kronos not present on this PSU
3) Mounting this PSU to the Kronos (same issue and solution as the Seasonic)
4) miscellaneous pin connector for the motherboard
However, the unknowns for me is if it comes with the other required connectors, the spec sheet notes the 20 pin connector, which should be no issue for directly plugging into the PC mother board, but the other connectors that come with this PSU is unknown to be able to directly plug into the other required connectors on the Kronos. I will say that this is a better out-of-the-box PSU than the Seasonic in terms of modifications needed. Looking at the OEM PSU, I do see a two wired connector that your PSU doesn't have. So that would be two modifications needed (PSU power connector and this two pin connector) and depending on the mother board in your Kronos you may need to modify the P4/EPS connector or get a converter (like this https://s.turbifycdn.com/aah/yhst-90432262887525/2x2-pin-to-2x4-pin-processor-power-converter-cable-p-n-d12041-001-23.gif). |
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projectaspen
Joined: 05 Sep 2019
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:45 am Post subject: Re: PSU assembly details |
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| average_male wrote: | | projectaspen wrote: | Hi,
could you give more details on how you connected a Seasonic PSU to the Kronos? How did you make the adapter? |
I ordered various parts from DigiKey and the like. There are two methods to connect a Seasonic PSU (or any other brand for that matter):
1) Create an adapter - this option leaves your Kronos' PSU connections as is.
2) Create new wire runs off of the Seasonic PSU connector to the motherboard and various other power-required PCBs
This picture best illustrates the coupler/adapter (the black tape wasn't needed but added as additional insurance that nothing came undone in the event the Kronos was moved/shipped around a lot in the future):
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49803806541_a35dd034f4_b.jpg
For what I did in 1), you'll need to order various Molex ATX-like connectors (something like this but with the correct number of PINs/slots to interface with the Kronos' power connector (20 pin, IIRC): https://www.highflow.nl/images/watermarked/1/detailed/19/82137_1.jpg). FWIR, you'll need to undo all the pins coming from the Seasonic connector and 'map' the voltages coming from the Seasonic to this 20 pin connector going tot he Kronos. You'll also need two/three other types of connectors, one for the Korg main audio board and another for the SSD or fan (I think?) and another for the Seasonic's PSU power line (this takes a standard IEC power socket but you'll need to make a coupler for the 4 pin-connector coming from the Kronos' main power line). There may be another connector I may be missing, but once you get it taken apart, you'll need to map the required voltages to the correct boards. When you take apart one end of the Seasonic's PSU connectors and route the correct wire voltage to the adapter/connector similarly noted above, you'll needing extra long header pins (like: https://mm.digikey.com/Volume0/opasdata/d220001/medias/images/2581/PEC14SAFN,%20PEC14SAGN,%20PEC014AHN.jpg) such that the connector pins from adapter/coupler makes a male configuration connector between the Seasonic and Kronos. You will also need a tool to take out the PSU wires from the existing Seasonic connector, thin twezers is what I used. And a tool crimper and connectors to make new connections to the new power coupler, like these items:
https://www.moddiy.com/products/Professional-Molex-Crimping-Tool.html
One other thing is the mounting bracket modification that is needed. You'll need to open the Seasonic case and drill 4 holes on the bottom of its case and attach the two metal brackets that comes with the Kronos so that the Seasonic could be mounted to the Kronos. This (or similar) would need to be done regardless of which option you go with 1 vs 2.
I can get more specifics and part numbers if you are 100% sure you are going to go this route. It requires some DIY and understanding of basic electronics as you don't want to supply the wrong voltages and do damage to other components, like the mother board.
To be honest, it would be simpler to go with option 2), but the downside is that if one needs to replace the Kormos' PSU again, they won't be able to drop in a stock PSU. Option1) gives the flexibility to use either power supplies. If you plan on keeping your Kronos, go with option 2) as the Seasonic PSU is far better and comes with Japanese caps.
I know there is a lot of info there, and far from complete (and very unclear). Will refine and provide more details, if you elect to go forward. |
I took it to the shop in the middle of the week. Since I'm in SA it might be really expensive, like prohibitive expensive, and I'll let you know about solution 2. I don't know much about electronics repair or soldering but I do work with computers |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:03 am Post subject: Re: PSU assembly details |
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| projectaspen wrote: |
I took it to the shop in the middle of the week. Since I'm in SA it might be really expensive, like prohibitive expensive, and I'll let you know about solution 2. I don't know much about electronics repair or soldering but I do work with computers |
No soldering required, just basic knowledge of electronics, like how to use a multimeter and make connectors using the crimping tool noted above. In any case, best of luck to you and if you can, just take your time to research and plan it out and maybe try your hand at fixing some other small electronic device to gain some experience/confidence. |
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projectaspen
Joined: 05 Sep 2019
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: PSU assembly details |
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| average_male wrote: | | projectaspen wrote: |
I took it to the shop in the middle of the week. Since I'm in SA it might be really expensive, like prohibitive expensive, and I'll let you know about solution 2. I don't know much about electronics repair or soldering but I do work with computers |
No soldering required, just basic knowledge of electronics, like how to use a multimeter and make connectors using the crimping tool noted above. In any case, best of luck to you and if you can, just take your time to research and plan it out and maybe try your hand at fixing some other small electronic device to gain some experience/confidence. |
I might read that Mcgraw Hill book on components soon. If I have time since I also must learn more of the Kronos and piano 
Anyway, they quoted the repair, the authorized Korg service. They said that the PSU module, the HD control circuit and the Memory module need to be fixed. It is about U$600 for everything. But out of this U$200 is for the memory module, and I asked them if it's just RAM sticks because these seem cheap elsewhere.
But I might go for their repair yes, and get an APC soon. Next time I might try number 2 |
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BlackForest
Full Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 210
Location: German, Black Forest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: PSU assembly details |
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Warming up again this thread, I looked at your pics from changing the fans in the Koronos. I saw that you connected with your adapter a purple cable with a blue one. Is this correct?
( http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=785669&sid=209a6ce65c4dd10679109a1da4bed6e9 3rd pic from the bottom).
| average_male wrote: | | projectaspen wrote: |
I took it to the shop in the middle of the week. Since I'm in SA it might be really expensive, like prohibitive expensive, and I'll let you know about solution 2. I don't know much about electronics repair or soldering but I do work with computers |
No soldering required, just basic knowledge of electronics, like how to use a multimeter and make connectors using the crimping tool noted above. In any case, best of luck to you and if you can, just take your time to research and plan it out and maybe try your hand at fixing some other small electronic device to gain some experience/confidence. |
[img][/img]
_________________
Kronos 2-88 & X73, Kurzweil MicroPiano, Spitfire Albion V Tundra, BBCO Core, Nylon Guitar Ilya Efimov, Xtant Audio Uilleann Pipes - in use
Korg DS-8, Roland D-10, M1Rex, Wavestation, Korg SP-280, JV2080, Wavestate, Kronos LS - all RIP |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:43 am Post subject: Re: PSU assembly details |
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| BlackForest wrote: | | Warming up again this thread, I looked at your pics from changing the fans in the Koronos. I saw that you connected with your adapter a purple cable with a blue one. Is this correct? |
Seems so, but here are more details. From the Seasonic 300SUB, the purple wire is PIN 14 and is +5VSB (5 Volts Stand-By Power), and according to the ATX specs, +5VSB should be Purple. Given this, not sure if the "Blue" wire you noted is actually blue, Korg used blue rather than purple, the lighting makes it look blue or if the blue wire is actually a shade of purple but looks blue given the shade of purple wire Korg used?
In any event, best not to go by color but go by PIN out specifications and voltages outputs of the power supply and the expected voltages for the target device, the Korg Intel motherboard in this case.
If you get the Seasonic 300SUB, you could request the PIN out spec sheet from their support agents, I did update the original post with a link to the Seasonic 300SUB PDF Spec Sheet.
And just a reminder, you could forego the adaptor and remove all the Seasonic wires from its connector and patch in all the wires from the existing Kronos wire harness into the Seasonic plastic connector. But this will limit your ability to use an original Korg power supply in the future.
Good luck. |
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BlackForest
Full Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 210
Location: German, Black Forest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, well so, I got a PSU finally and it's not working ...
What I did is I took all the pins of the new PSU out, took them off and soldered them each to the corresponding pin in the original connector. There is just about enough space. I had to take out each pin of this one.
The grey/green/purple/black connector I soldered directly onto each other. I think this one is the +5VSB, check motherboard ok or so.
So, what IS working? The display is lightened up, and one small LED on the motherboard is blinking green, it's named STDBY probably for"stand by". No fan going on, nothing.
It's this one here:
https://www.inter-tech.de/productdetails/FA-250_EN.html
Maybe one problem is that this one has minimum currents compared to the original one, which has partly 0A currents?
Any ideas of you electronic geeks?
_________________
Kronos 2-88 & X73, Kurzweil MicroPiano, Spitfire Albion V Tundra, BBCO Core, Nylon Guitar Ilya Efimov, Xtant Audio Uilleann Pipes - in use
Korg DS-8, Roland D-10, M1Rex, Wavestation, Korg SP-280, JV2080, Wavestate, Kronos LS - all RIP |
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BlackForest
Full Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 210
Location: German, Black Forest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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The MB is an Intel D525MW. I had only 2 connectors going to the original PSU.
some pictures:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/uev899t7mgmrspob3jhln/h?rlkey=3th1tcnfxptqdyly3hzxrsw85&dl=0
I simply connected same colours. Why? When I switched on the original PSU without anyhting else connected to it apart from the 230V, I was not able to measure any voltages, only the +5Vsb on the small 4 pin connector. Is that normal behaviour?
@average_male, am still wondering about your wiring and the colours in your thread about the fans.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=785669&sid=209a6ce65c4dd10679109a1da4bed6e9
In Pic 7 seems to me that on the small 4 pin connector you connected the Korg's purple cable to a red one!?
And the purple coming from the PSU to a blue one on Korg's side.
_________________
Kronos 2-88 & X73, Kurzweil MicroPiano, Spitfire Albion V Tundra, BBCO Core, Nylon Guitar Ilya Efimov, Xtant Audio Uilleann Pipes - in use
Korg DS-8, Roland D-10, M1Rex, Wavestation, Korg SP-280, JV2080, Wavestate, Kronos LS - all RIP |
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KK
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 1423
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| BlackForest wrote: | | I simply connected same colours. Why? When I switched on the original PSU without anyhting else connected to it apart from the 230V, I was not able to measure any voltages, only the +5Vsb on the small 4 pin connector. Is that normal behaviour? |
Yep, the SB +5 V is independent and on as soon as you connect the PS. To test the other voltages, before connecting the PS you must first short the PS-ON pin to ground. Make sure your temporary jumper is not touching anything else and won't fall and follow usual precautions to not destroy anything and for your own safety. BTW usual wire colors for such PS are red : +5 V, orange : +3,3 V, yellow : +12 V and blue : -12 V. Also, green is usually : PS-ON, purple : SB +5 V and of course black : 0 V or ground.
In short (no pun intended  ), do not solder wrong PS wires to components, since wrong voltages might destroy stuff. Take your time to trace and double check what should go where. Your new PS data sheet has all the info. Also I strongly recommend using heat shrink tubing to do your junctions and no tape. |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:23 am Post subject: |
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In addition to what KK stated, you really should confirm that all voltages/wires from the original power supply map to and provide the same voltages to the various Kronos components (Motherboard + Boot Support Board, fan, drive and audio board). Take special note of the following ATX spec'd wires for special usage and ensure those are getting connected to the Kronos as expected:
PWR_OK (ATX spec. color = "gray")
VSB +5 volts (ATX spec. color = "purple") <== Boot Support Board
PS_ON# (ATX spec. color = "green")
all the other power supply wires should be general usage voltage (+3.3V, +/-5V, +/-12V and ground)
Not sure what you mean by minimum currents, but the original Kronos power supply can manage 120W load and the one you have can handle 250W load, so no issues there.
Best I could recall and from what the Kronos service manual notes, the KLM-3008 (Boot Support Board) has the +V5 VSB line coming from the power supply (this may need to be also supplied to the MB power connector?). And IIRC, that board may allow for incorrect orientation? So also confirm that it is seated as expected. As the name implies, this board controls the booting of the mother board.
BTW, your power supply pinning work looks pretty solid. Also, not sure at which point those pictures were taken, but the bare lose wires concerns me if that was how they were when you powered the Kronos on for a test. But before I powered on my Kronos with my new power supply, I tripled checked every power supply wire voltages and wire runs to ensure all was correct.
Look forward to hearing a status update. |
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BlackForest
Full Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 210
Location: German, Black Forest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your help and input guys. The one pic with open wires was without power.. 😉
One more thought (as I am going to work soon) is there a difference in the various same-coloured cables? So, for example are all the red ones switched at the same time/condition?
I am asking because I took the 20+4 plug apart and mixed all the cables.
Maybe there is a difference in the seperable 4 pin plug to the rest of the 20 pins......?
EDIT: this PSU has a NLP (no load protecion), the ENO-1612 doesn't seem to have this, it also looks like the Seasonic doesn't have one.
Would this pose a problem because the whole system in the Kronos is switched dofferently than a normal PC?
_________________
Kronos 2-88 & X73, Kurzweil MicroPiano, Spitfire Albion V Tundra, BBCO Core, Nylon Guitar Ilya Efimov, Xtant Audio Uilleann Pipes - in use
Korg DS-8, Roland D-10, M1Rex, Wavestation, Korg SP-280, JV2080, Wavestate, Kronos LS - all RIP |
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average_male
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 278
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| BlackForest wrote: | Thanks for your help and input guys. The one pic with open wires was without power.. 😉
One more thought (as I am going to work soon) is there a difference in the various same-coloured cables? So, for example are all the red ones switched at the same time/condition?
I am asking because I took the 20+4 plug apart and mixed all the cables.
Maybe there is a difference in the seperable 4 pin plug to the rest of the 20 pins......?
EDIT: this PSU has a NLP (no load protecion), the ENO-1612 doesn't seem to have this, it also looks like the Seasonic doesn't have one.
Would this pose a problem because the whole system in the Kronos is switched dofferently than a normal PC? |
Regarding the 20+4 plug and voltages question, short answer is no as the datasheet indicates normal voltages for the +4 pins (https://www.inter-tech.de/files/images/psu/88882160/Manual_Flex-ATX_FA-250_EN.pdf)
I would say that you may want to not avoid (if possible) using the same pin from the power supply to splice 3~4 wires to it and make your runs to the Kronos and try to feed the motherboard with as few spliced (shared) wires as possible. Not sure if each pin has a max load or if every, for example, 5V pin is connected to the same V5 rail coming from the power supply.
As for the NLP, I have no idea about that but would say, if you connect all the voltages up and all looks good but still doesn't power up, you could try manually switching on the power supply on by shorting the green to black wires coming from the power supply. But this to me sounds very risky not knowing the exact boot sequence and voltage requirements at each step for the Kronos. |
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BlackForest
Full Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 210
Location: German, Black Forest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I am trying currently. I shortened green with black. Now the fans briefly move and stop again on and off, in a 1 sec rhythm.
Also I put some load (12 v bulb) to one of the free normal HDD connectors to simulate a load. No change.
_________________
Kronos 2-88 & X73, Kurzweil MicroPiano, Spitfire Albion V Tundra, BBCO Core, Nylon Guitar Ilya Efimov, Xtant Audio Uilleann Pipes - in use
Korg DS-8, Roland D-10, M1Rex, Wavestation, Korg SP-280, JV2080, Wavestate, Kronos LS - all RIP |
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