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Narioso
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Broadwave wrote: | | Narioso wrote: |
The obvious as I saw on new Roland 0-series Fantom - hdmi output I assume for a larger screen of choice.
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Not sure where you got that info from, but there's no HDMI output on the 0 series, so no connection to a larger screen. |
Thanks for correcting me.
I was most probably looking at Korg PA700 the same day
https://www.korg.com/se/products/synthesizers/pa700/specifications.php
which spec video out on hdmi.
PA4X also has video out, but RCA.
Newer PA1000 also has hdmi.
Mystery is why Nautilus did not?
Sorry for my misinformation. 
_________________
MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
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Space Girl
Junior Member
Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:55 pm Post subject: Fantom's Zencores & Clouds |
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I saw this post about the Fantom 0 and have watched videos and it all looks nice but I am used to quality & aftertouch.
I almost bought a Fantom last year then decided on a 2nd Kronos instead. Now I see the new Fantom 0 and wondering should I still buy a Fantom and if so which to go for.
I really can't get my head around the Cloud and membership. I'd like to be able to have Jupiter 8, Juno 106 on it and assume you have to buy them for the Fantom 0 series and maybe not for the Fantom 6,7,8's.
Not sure if you even own them then or if they run out when your membership expires. Can I just get free membership with Roland and get these synth modules free? Do you then have to purchase the sounds for them?
Weight is a problem if the Fantom 7 is heavy like my Kronos.
Any suggestions may help... Cheers.. |
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Koekepan
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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According to Roland, the Fantom 7 is about 40lbs/18kg, while the Fantom-07 is roughly 16lbs/7kg. That's a substantial difference in weight.
Cloud and membership:
- While you are online
- If you have an active subscription
... then you can use Roland's online (cloud) service to get sounds for your device. You don't own them, it's not free, it's a subscription. If you're relying on anything cloud-related for a business that isn't inherently an online activity (such as online banking/shopping/communications) I think that you are making a mistake, and in good conscience I cannot recommend it. Roland is under no particular obligation to support the cloud, nor to make any or all of it available to you, in particular. Basically, you're relying on their goodwill and determination to keep supporting a thing indefinitely, which frankly is not something where they have a strong track record (many people have buyer's remorse for the System-8 precisely because the list of models wasn't particularly big).
I don't think that they are likely making much money from their cloud. I think that they're more interested in the customer details for marketing purposes.
But you do you. |
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Space Girl
Junior Member
Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:15 am Post subject: Roland Fantom & Cloud Membership |
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| Koekepan wrote: |
Cloud and membership:
... then you can use Roland's online (cloud) service to get sounds for your device. You don't own them, it's not free, it's a subscription. |
Thankyou for this information. If you can never actually own or keep the cloud expansions or cloud synths in a Fantom without being online constantly or having a subscription....then it's no good for me. I like being offline when using instruments or playing.
I saw something that suggests the flagship Fantom's includes Juno 106/ Jupiter 8, JX-8P ( although you still need to download from the cloud) so sounds like the only way to get these and keep them is to buy a Fantom Flagship.
I just found this- https://www.rolandcloud.com/news/zenology-pro-analog-icons-bundle-sale
"For a limited time, Roland Cloud is offering a ZENOLOGY Pro bundle as a single Lifetime Key purchase.
Lifetime Key Prices
ZENOLOGY Pro $229
JX-8P Model Expansion $149
JUNO-106 Model Expansion $149
JUPITER 8 Model Expansion $149
SH-101 Model Expansion $149
Total $825 "
I certainly don't want to pay that on top of paying for a new Fantom! If these were all free and included I would still consider buying one.
That's a few more pounds in weight than my Kronos's that's for sure. Guess it would just build more muscle if I had to move it too much.
Roland certainly don't make it easy like Korg do to get sound packs/ samples. It's nice to know that when you buy from Korg, you get to keep them and can now use in another Kronos or Nautilus too. |
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Koekepan
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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That's not quite how it works. You select something, download it, then you pretty much have it but if you want anything else you have to go back online, etc. etc. etc. If one setting overrides another, then the overridden one is gone until you get back online and ... so on.
The Integra-7 is still a strong contender precisely because there isn't any need to be on the cloud, and the same can be said for the MC-707. If you want the sounds, I'd get the groovebox.
This is, while I have a lot of respect for Roland's achievements, why I'm not buying their stuff. I'm not a particular fanboy of any manufacturer but I look for value, and Roland's weird choices seem to undermine value. If what you want is some bread-and-butter sounds to play in a band, or a worship group or something like that, Roland will see you right. But then there are cheaper ways to go as well. If you want deep sound design, Zencore isn't bad but for the price of an MC-707 you could buy a Waldorf Blofeld, or even a Synesthesia Pipes and go really nuts. |
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bpoodoo
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2019
Posts: 429
Location: Ding Dong, TX
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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From what I've heard so far, the built-in sounds of the Fantom 0 are lackluster. Yes, the workflow, controls, colorful screen are great - but what do they matter if the resulting songs you make with it are so-so. The new supernatural pianos in it are nothing to write home about. Very thin, little perceivable dynamics, and not very realistic. To me the Fantom 0 is not very "musical" - without character or feel. But maybe that's typical of current music production: simplistic trance-inducing beat-centric synthetic sound generation and playback. The Korg Kross 2 sounds better to me - and is a sweeter deal now with recent price cuts rolling the price back to where it was a few years ago.
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bpoodoo
Triton Extreme 88 w/MOSS
"We all move on, like centuries and doves." |
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Narioso
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Koekepan wrote: | ... (many people have buyer's remorse for the System-8 precisely because the list of models wasn't particularly big).
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... or like me - just 64 preset locations.
WTF are you to do with that doing intermediate saves and exploring each synth engine/plugout????
That lasts two hours just about for me.
I had contact with Roland support locally and wondered over if the backup/restore to usb/sd(don't remember which) so you after storing could restore just one bank or similar. Then you could do without computer making presets.
- answer was No, not even as firmware update.
From what I heard/read that technology was better reproduction of the originals. But that Zen was less cpu heavy.
Seems to me Roland still target those that just buy libraries and pick and choose from those what to use. But I'm in the fortunate situation doing this just for fun and enjoyment, no deadline getting stuff finalized.
There were a link to an interview, here at forum, with a top guy at Roland's that meant their research show that most people just want librarires and possibly layer features of those.
One of my favorites in synth based music is Howard Jones. I saw a demo of Jupiter 8080, I think model was, and you could see he was not impressed from his facial expression even with a Roland guy in the house. Otherwise HJ favour Jupiter 8.
I have a live dvd set with HJ not long ago, where the Retro section had all this retro gear doing stuff as when he started off. Really nice and also cover what a great song writer he is, piano player and everything else.
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MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
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Koekepan
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a lot of Roland gear; just two boutiques and a Boss vocal processor. Those work well, and don't depend on any online facilities. They can certainly make good hardware, and it can certainly sound good, but I've certainly spent a lot more time and money on KORG over the years.
If I had to build a studio from scratch on a limited budget today, I don't think that I'd have anything from Roland because they don't offer the best deal on anything that I can think of. But I'd probably find room for KORG. |
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Narioso
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Koekepan wrote: |
If I had to build a studio from scratch on a limited budget today, I don't think that I'd have anything from Roland because they don't offer the best deal on anything that I can think of. But I'd probably find room for KORG. |
Me too.
I think Korg is innovative and always brings something new as synths anyway.
Multiengine of Prologue and Minilogue XD. Opsix really make FM managable. Also felt KingKorg that had emulation of filters from all the main synths and various oscillator types. Wavestate and ModWave too are unique, I think.
But Roland make pretty decent digital pianos.
But looked closely on JDXa and System-8 in recent years. I looked through dozens of sysex from D50 and picked and chose from those into Boutique D-05. You just don't make sounds with it.
_________________
MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| AtinDallas wrote: | | For those who use Workstations, would the new Fantom O be used or played like an arranger? Thanks! |
| bpoodoo wrote: | | no, I don't see any of the typical "arranger" features like styles, auto accompaniment, Rhythm Intros, Variations, End, Magic chord fingering, etc. |
It does have some of these functions. There is a "Rhythm Pattern" function with touchscreen buttons for intro, ending, verse with variation and fill with variation, as seen here:
But no, it is not a full-function arranger.
| Koekepan wrote: | | with no linear sequencing it's not a workstation. |
Correct. And Roland does not call it a workstation.
For those who think otherwise, check out the list of Roland models at https://www.roland.com/us/categories/synthesizers/performance_workstation/ -- FA is called a workstation, the Fantoms are called synthesizers. The difference? Yup, the FA has the fully editable multitrack linear sequencer that has always been what has defined a workstation. Similarly, look at the list of manuals at https://www.roland.com/us/support/owners_manuals/ - the FA and the earlier generation Fantoms are called workstations, the current Fantoms are again called synthesizers.
| Koekepan wrote: | | The Kross will do it. The Krome will do it. The Kronos will do it. Even the Kronos's crippled cousin, the Nautilus will do it. The Akai Force will do it. A wide range of machines from Casio will do it. Kurzweil have some excellent contenders as well. In fact, quite a few arrangers will afford linear capabilities as well. |
I don't know anything about the Force. But yes, those others do have true workstation capabilities. Also the Yamaha MOXF6, which is still around. And the Roland FA, we'll see how long that's around. Arrangers that include workstation functionality include Yamaha Genos, and a number of models from Korg... at least PA700, PA1000, and Pa4X.
Roland appears to be moving away from workstation functionality, instead focusing on DAW integration, which is how they expect you to get that functionality now. Yamaha is doing the same thing, having taken these former Motif/MOXF functions out of the newer Montage/MODX.
As for comparing Fantom-0 to Nautilus, the Fantom-0 is actually priced closer to the Krome EX than it is to the Nautilus. Travel weight for gigging is also closer to Krome than Nautilus. While it certainly can't do everything a Nautilus can do, it does have a lot of advantages over a Krome (even though, yes, it lacks the workstation-style sequencer)... like seamless sound transitions, an extensive (Kronos-like) control surface, multiple engines including tonewheel organ and virtual analog and some acoustic instrument modeling (in the the SuperNATURAL stuff), vocoder, trigger pads, sample memory. I think it's a nice offering in between the Krome and Nautilus pricing. |
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bpoodoo
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2019
Posts: 429
Location: Ding Dong, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | AtinDallas wrote: | | For those who use Workstations, would the new Fantom O be used or played like an arranger? Thanks! |
| bpoodoo wrote: | | no, I don't see any of the typical "arranger" features like styles, auto accompaniment, Rhythm Intros, Variations, End, Magic chord fingering, etc. |
It does have some of these functions. There is a "Rhythm Pattern" function with touchscreen buttons for intro, ending, verse with variation and fill with variation, as seen here:
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Oh that is interesting - thanks for the correction.
So it is Roland who steps up to the plate to add this rhythm variation pattern/group feature normally only found in arrangers to a workstation/synthesizer. A quick search shows this is originally a Fantom feature carried over to the Fantom 0. Now... here it comes... wait for it...if only it could include rhythm patterns in 7/8 time signature so I could play "Dreaming in Metaphors" 
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bpoodoo
Triton Extreme 88 w/MOSS
"We all move on, like centuries and doves." |
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Koekepan
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott wrote: | | But no, it is not a full-function arranger. |
Yeah, it's kind of a middle ground device right now. Limited arranger capability, not really a workstation. More like a synth with some fancy bits on the side.
| Scott wrote: | | I don't know anything about the Force. |
You can take my word for it on the Force. I have one. You can extend its clips to huge lengths, and use a single clip as a linear sequencer bed, or you can use their arranger view, which is rather like a linear sequencer juiced up with the ability to put clips in it from your clip library. It lets you do things like automation on the linear level and that sort of juicy thing. It's multi-engine, has audio capabilities including fancy stuff like vocal retuning ... it's a beast, it just doesn't happen to have a keyboard. It ain't perfect, but it's pretty darned good.
| Scott wrote: | | Roland appears to be moving away from workstation functionality, instead focusing on DAW integration, which is how they expect you to get that functionality now. Yamaha is doing the same thing, having taken these former Motif/MOXF functions out of the newer Montage/MODX. |
I agree with your diagnosis. It makes me sad, but I agree.
That said, I agree with you that it's a well-placed gigging entry in the market. It's a glorified groovebox, in essence. A groovesynth. A grooveboard. That's precisely what the pattern playback gives you.
It's just not a good arranger, and not really a workstation at all. If those functions are what you want, look elsewhere. |
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Koekepan
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| bpoodoo wrote: | | So it is Roland who steps up to the plate to add this rhythm variation pattern/group feature normally only found in arrangers to a workstation/synthesizer. A quick search shows this is originally a Fantom feature carried over to the Fantom 0. Now... here it comes... wait for it...if only it could include rhythm patterns in 7/8 time signature so I could play "Dreaming in Metaphors" |
Well, actually ... let me adjust my fedora for this one ... the Casio XWP1 and XWG1 and a few others that share similar features such as the WK-7600 have done this for many years. Roland steps up to the plate after Casio already ran off to first base? |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Koekepan wrote: | | bpoodoo wrote: | | So it is Roland who steps up to the plate to add this rhythm variation pattern/group feature normally only found in arrangers to a workstation/synthesizer. A quick search shows this is originally a Fantom feature carried over to the Fantom 0. Now... here it comes... wait for it...if only it could include rhythm patterns in 7/8 time signature so I could play "Dreaming in Metaphors" |
Well, actually ... let me adjust my fedora for this one ... the Casio XWP1 and XWG1 and a few others that share similar features such as the WK-7600 have done this for many years. Roland steps up to the plate after Casio already ran off to first base? |
Its just drums, nothing more.. it has nothing to do with arranger Rhytms..
Bpoodoo obviously has no clue about arranger rhytms..which are complete backings with 8 or more tracks from which there are only 2 drums/percussion.
By the way? Bpoodoo? How many rhytms variations can you have in the Kronos using Karma? Or in The nautilus using the arp? And did you ever look at the Montage…. You can have 8 variations of rhytms..
So maybe you also have not realy a clue about Workstation Rhytms either?
To me his comments make no sense?
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: | Its just drums, nothing more.. it has nothing to do with arranger Rhytms..
Bpoodoo obviously has no clue about arranger rhytms..which are complete backings with 8 or more tracks from which there are only 2 drums/percussion. |
Maybe it's an issue of semantics/terminology, but to me, rhythm parts are drums/percussion. The other 6+ tracks you're talking about are accompaniment, not rhythms. Those tracks are often referred to as auto-accompaniment, not auto-rhythms. If a keyboard's description said it had rhythms, I would not assume it had full accompaniment, all it tells me for sure is that it has drums. |
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