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downloadable Drum patterns? Or midi drum patterns?

 
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Alp
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:28 am    Post subject: downloadable Drum patterns? Or midi drum patterns? Reply with quote

Good day everyone,

Years ago I would not have thought I would ever need to ask this, but a few occasions have come up where I want a drum pattern but it does not exist.

Recently I wanted a country 3/4 type drum pattern but the only thing I could find was pattern 129 and it really won't do it. I am way down low on the learning curve and do not want to build my own patterns (yet). Is there a source for downloadable M-50 drum patterns I could have (or buy) acces to ????
Is there a Korg M-50 preset/combi/drum swap directory online?
A good site with free midi drum files would also be of interest. I found a few but no luck so far looking for that 3/4 country thing.

Thanks

Alp
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bpoodoo
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Location: Ding Dong, TX

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand your dilemma I've often tried to find the same for my Triton Extreme.

An archive of .SNG files containing RPPR User Patterns to work with your built-in drum kits and drum programs would be perfect, but those are rarely found. Ironically when I bought my Triton Extreme, I bought a sampler CD that also came with a floppy disk of RPPR patterns. I didn't know what that was at the time, and now unfortunately I no longer have a device with a floppy drive that can read it.

Quality for-purchase drum patterns are available from toontrack, but they apparently don't actually provide you MIDI (.mid) files. You must use a custom app (e.g. EZDrummer) to play those drum patterns.

Most of the free downloadable MIDI drum patterns, in a word, suck. You can often get the same result from very basic finger tapping to create your own drum track.

Your best bet maybe to search for MIDI files of songs in the genre of interest or by song title that might have some good drum patterns (steering clear of the spam sites).

This is a pretty good old site for MIDI files:

https://www.midiworld.com/search/1/?q=country

I use the free android app "MIDI Clef" to preview any downloaded MIDI files. It's actually got some really good instruments and no latency during playback. You can also solo tracks with the app, for example the drum track.

Good Luck - Let us know what you find!
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bpoodoo
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Alp
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have thought of downoading a midi song that is similar to what I want. Thanks for the idea.

Maybe with a little research I might be able to separate the midi drum track and plug it into the M50. I think of the M50 tutorials mentions importing midi drum track and doing something to save it as a proper M50 drum pattern. If not at least I can play it back as a GM midi instrument, might even be able to edit tempo and drum kit.

Thanks
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bpoodoo
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Location: Ding Dong, TX

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From http://vanbasco.com/
I searched for this song I knew was in 3/4 which provided the following link: http://midkar.com/MidiStudio/LGorven/CouldIHaveThisDance.mid

The drum track in this MIDI file is a good example of a simple 3/4 country waltz with a bit of swing with several variations and fills.

You could load this MIDI file into your M50 sequencer. As you know, the drum program must be set to a GM MIDI drum kit for correct note-to-instrument mapping. The drum MIDI track is usually in track 10, but not always.

The M50 supports RPPR. You could use RPPR (only in sequencer mode) to pull note data from measures in the drum sequencer track into RPPR User Patterns using "Get From Track". This way you can have different RPPR user patterns of any length assigned to different notes on your keyboard (perhaps one RPPR pattern for each drum pattern variation or fill; or one RPPR pattern each for intro, verse, chorus, ending; etc.). The RPPR user patterns are saved with the sequencer song to a .SNG file.

Alternatively without using RPPR, you could simply cut and paste measures from the drum sequencer track into a new song.
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bpoodoo
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Alp
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I downloaded the file you presented.

I also downloaded a few Take it to the Limit midi files, one of which has an excellent drum track that I will be using.

I had a mental chuckle when I read "As you know, the drum program must be set to a GM MIDI drum kit for correct note-to-instrument mapping. "

Yeah, I didn't know. Turning a midi track into a new user drum pattern on the M50 will be an adventure, most likely with a lot of yelling and frustration. I find the manual / user guide to be difficult to use, it is not written for a complete newbie. I have played guitar all my life. (I am 62). I got the M50 about 7 years ago and only use what has been built into it, and maybe only at 5% of what it is capable of. I only dabble with keyboard tunes but I can bang out a pretty nice version of tears in heaven on it.

Your coments will no doubt be much help.
Thanks
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bpoodoo
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The M50 has a nice built-in acoustic piano (esp. compared to any of the Triton ROM pianos). I could certainly see spending hours just playing that M50 Grand Piano.

Rich Formidoni worked for Korg during the roll out of the M3/M50 and made some really good tutorial videos.

Create a Drum Track pattern from measures in a sequencer track:
https://youtu.be/tOSHg3xK7bo

RPPR Patterns:
https://youtu.be/wH6TqFbskDc

Drum Track Patterns are stored like programs combis and global data, so once written to internal memory they persist through keyboard power cycles, and can be backed up to a .PCG file. RPPR Patterns are stored in sequencer songs, so they do not persist through keyboard power cycles and must be saved to and loaded from a .SNG file.

Hopefully these videos can provide better context and guidance than the manuals alone. Or at least supplement what's in the manuals.
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Alp
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes,

I have seen his videos. I intend to look into them.

Thanks for pinpointing the ones I need.

A.
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Alp
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yo! Bpoodoo
A small degree of success... I can now stuble forward..

I took a look at the drums video and the basic sequence video as well as the RPPR video. In NONE of them did i find out HOW to load in the midi drum track into the sequencer.
Another instance of the instructions (this time the videos) not being geared towards newbies!!!

I did a google search for " loading midi files into M50 sequencer" and found
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=69103

which was no help (but I saved it for later reading).

Then I remembered I could load songs I had saved by selecting media and then loading from the SD card. I had already saved some midi files for the song I am working on to midi files on the SD card.

I have to work on renaming them because it seems the M50 has name size limitations that have rendered my midi track name/descriptions totally useless... but I have made the jump from being hopeless because of gaps in the instructions to a place I can now load the drum track (if I can find it) and get it into the sequencer and maybe even assign it to a pattern.

I now have to look into the timing.... I will be loading a 3/4 drum track into a track that has by default 4/4 timing. Do I need to bang my head some more? Do I change this before or AFTER I load the midi drum track? Will loading a 3/4 drum pattern int a 4/4 track totally mess it up?
I saw it somewhere in one of the videos where Rick does it AFTER he copies something from "load from pattern" i think it was into a 4/4 track then he goes to (track edit??) and changes the time signature. I'll go back and search. I HAVE looked into manual but manual always assumes we are using 4/4 as far as I can see, and seems to me only mentions you can change tempo but not how to set sequencer up to load a different tempo than 4/4.
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Alp
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE!
I loaded the entire midi song (take it to the limit) into M50. It did not play beck very well. All the instruments load as piano.
I tried changing them , track 2 to bass. Track 7 to drums. I left the remaining 8 tracks as piano.
Track 2 and 7 play back as bass and drum as long as I do not do a "locate" first to go to beginning of song. If i restart the song after I change to drum and bass, they get changed back to piano. I suppose there is some midi command at the start of the data that is doing this. I have no idea how to erase it.

ANYWAY... I did manage to save the drum track by itself from the DAW I am using. It loads into the sequencer (track 1) as piano, but if I change it to drum it stays drum even after I do a "locate" and play from beginning.

New problem...
The drums sound horrid.
Supposed to have cymbals. There are no cymbals.
Instead, I get clapping unless I use the jazz drum kit. With jazz kit, it still is not cymbals, but at least it is not claping anymore.

It seems i have to re-map the different midi signals for the different drums in the M50 for them to sound right.

the learning curve is getting too steep for me in such short time.

Can you offer some hints as to how I can proceed?

BTW... time signature is still listed as 4/4 in the sequence page, but play back at 3/4. I wonder if this is causing problems I do not know about.


Alp
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bpoodoo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alp wrote:

Then I remembered I could load songs I had saved by selecting media and then loading from the SD card. I had already saved some midi files for the song I am working on to midi files on the SD card.

Right - you can load .SNG or .MID files into the sequencer. A Midi file should load into the next available empty sequencer song (using Append not Clear when you load the file).

Some MIDI files can be really sloppy and confusing to the sequencer with potentially lots of program changes and control data you don't need or want.

I would keep it separate versus your main song that you'll be recording to and editing. All you want from that MIDI sequencer song is to copy the drum track and measures from it into your main song (Using Track Edit>Copy Measures). Then you're done with it.

Alp wrote:

... I can now load the drum track (if I can find it) and get it into the sequencer and maybe even assign it to a pattern.

Each song in the sequencer stores its on RPPR patterns. If you do create RPPR Patterns from the drum track, do it in your main song after you have copied the MIDI drum track into it.

Alp wrote:

I now have to look into the timing.... I will be loading a 3/4 drum track into a track that has by default 4/4 timing. Do I need to bang my head some more? Do I change this before or AFTER I load the midi drum track? Will loading a 3/4 drum pattern int a 4/4 track totally mess it up?
I saw it somewhere in one of the videos where Rick does it AFTER he copies something from "load from pattern" i think it was into a 4/4 track then he goes to (track edit??) and changes the time signature. I'll go back and search. I HAVE looked into manual but manual always assumes we are using 4/4 as far as I can see, and seems to me only mentions you can change tempo but not how to set sequencer up to load a different tempo than 4/4.


Yes - banging your head and yelling at your keyboard would be a good idea at this point! I think this is by design to be obtuse and difficult to encourage you to buy an arranger keyboard to complement your workstation keyboard!

The time signature or meter is set for every measure separately. There's no way to say "this song is 3/4". The meter for each measure is data ​you can see (and change) in the track edit event editor. It's good to have this flexibility if you have a song where the meter changes in parts of the song. But default is always 4/4.

To make the entire song 3/4, the best way to do is to specify a meter of 3/4 for every measure of your song before you start recording actual notes. With a brand new empty song select track 1, hit the record button, and notice at the top Meter **/**. Select that field and arrow up until it gets to Meter 3/4. Now hit the start/stop button to start the recording. Don't play anything - just watch the measures count up. What this is doing is inserting data into each measure saying "this is a 3/4 measure". Let it continue to record - nothing - until it gets up to the maximum number of measures you think you'll need in your song. Then hit stop. "Striping" your song with meter change for all measures at the beginning is the best way I know to tell the sequencer, "this is a 3/4 song." And it will prevent it from defaulting to 4/4 for measures you haven't recorded yet.

As you say, if you recorded a song that's really in 3/4 but you used the default 4/4 meter, it depends what is the meter of the measures you are copying from. They need to match. Each measure will be copied independently. If there's a mismatch in meter in a measure, I think note data will either be left out at the end of the measure (silence) or there will notes chopped off at the end of the measure.
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bpoodoo
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bpoodoo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alp wrote:
UPDATE!
I loaded the entire midi song (take it to the limit) into M50. It did not play beck very well. All the instruments load as piano.
I tried changing them , track 2 to bass. Track 7 to drums. I left the remaining 8 tracks as piano.
Track 2 and 7 play back as bass and drum as long as I do not do a "locate" first to go to beginning of song. If i restart the song after I change to drum and bass, they get changed back to piano. I suppose there is some midi command at the start of the data that is doing this. I have no idea how to erase it.

ANYWAY... I did manage to save the drum track by itself from the DAW I am using. It loads into the sequencer (track 1) as piano, but if I change it to drum it stays drum even after I do a "locate" and play from beginning.

New problem...
The drums sound horrid.
Supposed to have cymbals. There are no cymbals.
Instead, I get clapping unless I use the jazz drum kit. With jazz kit, it still is not cymbals, but at least it is not claping anymore.

It seems i have to re-map the different midi signals for the different drums in the M50 for them to sound right.

the learning curve is getting too steep for me in such short time.

Can you offer some hints as to how I can proceed?

BTW... time signature is still listed as 4/4 in the sequence page, but play back at 3/4. I wonder if this is causing problems I do not know about.


Alp


Try executing "GM Initialize" before you load the MIDI file into the sequencer. That might help get the programs right. Make sure the drum program is selected from bank g(d).

Yeah I have the same confusion about how these instruments get reset sometimes when you relocate to the beginning of the song.

Sometimes it's because of program change data from the MIDI file at the beginning of the sequence, usually in track 1. You can remove these program change messages by going to track edit > event edit and only check program change. Then you can remove the program change events.
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bpoodoo
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Alp
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah..! I was selecting Standard kit as the playback instrument...

Hahahahahahahaha ha ha...
It works!

I bet your midi event thing will work also!

While I am at it... I discovered that if I want to load several midi tracks (1 thru 10) that they all end up overwriting track 1 in the sequence editor.

I do not know how to get them to load to the proper track.

I hate this, I feel like I am asking too many questions!
But it seems every time I go forward, another issue pops up.

I will try to figure out changing time signature from 4/4 to 3/4 myself. I think I saw it in a video.

If you live in the Vancouver B.C. area I would hire you on the spot as a tutor.

Thanks
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bpoodoo
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alp wrote:

While I am at it... I discovered that if I want to load several midi tracks (1 thru 10) that they all end up overwriting track 1 in the sequence editor.

I do not know how to get them to load to the proper track.

If you live in the Vancouver B.C. area I would hire you on the spot as a tutor.

Thanks


I might be able to help with the MIDI track copy - if you're copying from one song to another using the sequencer, start in the song that you're copying from. Track Edit>Copy Measures should then have all the options you need to copy a range of measures from the source song into the destination song and track. There are many fields in Copy Measures fields to manually fill in.

Vancouver - great city! Well, we are a scattered remnant of users of older keyboard workstations (or is it older users of keyboard workstations?) willing to help out when and where we can!
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