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siebenhirter Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 1825
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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:16 pm Post subject: Pa900 insert effect |
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musiccankill wrote: | ... Pa900 has no insert effects so it can't be that.. |
Korghelper wrote: | .. If no insert effects, what is the settings of the send effects?.. |
Even if this terminology is not used in the Pa900 manual, sound effects without an original signal parallel to their effect signal are insert effects.
In Mixer tuning with checkbox DRY the track signal from the outputs is to turn on or off.
In case you do not want to hear the direct signal, the Dry parameter is set to Off and sound of such tracks are using FX processors as insert effects. _________________ kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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tony mads usa Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2013 Posts: 294 Location: rhode island usa
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Is it possible for me to post a video on this forum? _________________ t. : ) |
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tony mads usa Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2013 Posts: 294 Location: rhode island usa
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Korghelper wrote: | Are you ‘muting’ the percussion by stopping a multipad?
Like I said, I’m not hearing any so called ‘distortion’. Sounds to me like some kind of rhythmic white noise type thing, the sort of thing that might be part of a Nine Inch Nails kind of rock drums loop or a zydeco scrubboard.
Are you sure you don’t simply have a multipad doing the noise? |
The sound is not coming from a multipad.
I did a 'SEARCH' in SOUNDS and there were no results for s 'Scrub Board' or 'Wash Board', so if that sound is in the KB it must be named something else or be hidden somewhere.
I took videos of the KB screen as I 'muted' the 'offending' sounds in both the Rock Ballad 2 and Zydeco styles. Is there a way for me to post those vids directly here or do I have to use something like BOX?
Thank You,
t. _________________ t. : ) |
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korg1 Approved Merchant
Joined: 17 Nov 2002 Posts: 955 Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:51 am Post subject: |
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As i said : try to turn off all master effects and check if problem exists.
If exists , try to resave at their original locations all kbd sets or at least the ones that style uses . _________________
https://pasongstyles.com/
https://soundcloud.com/korgfx |
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Korghelper Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 584
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:18 am Post subject: |
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There’s no scrubboard samples in the Korg (wish there were, I love zydeco and that sound doesn’t really get it right!) a programmer has taken some other sample as the original sound then messed with it until it’s that sort of white noise type thing.
Take a look at the drum kit and see which one it is… can you run through the style muting individual drums until you find the sound, then just erase it from the style?
I think you have confused a lot of people on this thread talking about ‘distortion’ when it simply seems to be some kind of white noise sound effect. |
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tony mads usa Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2013 Posts: 294 Location: rhode island usa
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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korghelper, first let me apologize for any confusion I may have caused.
However, I am confused about it being 'white noise' because:
1) If it is something that was programmed into the style(s), why is it that it is just appearing now?;
2) Why does it show up in some Big Band styles, where I don't know what sound the programmer may have been trying to emulate;
3) And perhaps most importantly, why does it not happen all the time? As I believe I mentioned in one of my posts above, I can turn on the KB choose one of the styles where the 'white noise' has occurred, and I will not hear it ... come back to that style later, and there it is again.
I also apologize that 'life' has gotten in the way of my trying to execute the various suggestions posted above, in order to isolate where the sound is coming from.
When I've had the opportunity to do that I will report back.
Thank You,
t. _________________ t. : ) |
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Korghelper Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 584
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think perhaps it might be better to post an audio example of somewhere it ISN’T supposed to be. It might be easier to understand.
It’s my guess that something in the kit is programmed to achieve the white noise type effect, maybe starting with some percussion sound like a cymbal, and perhaps that programming isn’t being cleared when you switch to a new style. But it’s unlikely that it’s totally random. My bet would be it starts after you go to a style that has the problem, then carries over.
You need to keep a VERY careful record of what you did before and after the issue appeared. There has to be some common element that kicks it all off. Perhaps a custom programmed lead sound that uses the effects in an unusual way, that perhaps an element of the drum kit is routed through?
Keeping track of what lead sounds you use, particularly as they may dictate changes to the send effects, may give you a clue as to why it ‘seemingly’ is a random thing. Short of a hardware meltdown, which is likely to affect far more than one single drum or percussion sample, my bet is this isn’t random at all. Something you are doing triggers it, whether it’s a style or a sound, or a registration…
Something I’d check is the rhythm of the ‘distorted’ sound… to me it rather sounds like a ride cymbal part. You might want to check and play those in the style editor, see if you can narrow it down. Maybe a guiro, shaker, something like that. You say it’s appearing in bigband styles… what element of the drum kit is missing while it sounds?
Troubleshooting is a painstaking process. Slowing down, and keeping a careful record of what steps you took just before a problem occurs is about the only way to definitively pinpoint the issue. Do a certain chain of actions, get the issue. Shut the keyboard down, reboot, and repeat the steps. Issue happen again? Now reboot and leave out one of the steps (change lead sounds, for instance) does it still occur. Rinse and repeat. I’m sure there’s a repeatable set of steps that will give a clue to the problem (check what multipads get loaded), but you won’t find it until you attack the problem slowly and methodically… |
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tony mads usa Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2013 Posts: 294 Location: rhode island usa
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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korghelper I certainly appreciate your time and effort in helping me try to find the problem.
As I stated, finding the time to just sit at the KB and troubleshoot has been difficult lately, but on Sunday I turned on the KB and selected the Big Band Fox style. Playing just the drums and percussion of the style, I heard the 'noise'.
I then went to the Zydeco style and heard the noise there as well. The sound was somewhat present in the Drums and percussion, but very apparent in the Auto Accomp voice of the Fiddle.
I then tried the FIDDLE voice in Upper 1 and played it solo, and the 'extraneous' sound was present. I recorded it (20 seconds) and took a photo of the SOUND setting:
https://app.box.com/s/yl9sax717igsmg3hvvuerazksfhrb82p
https://app.box.com/s/on4v07c26457ez3en0u08qezqvc3kat8
I turned the KB off and went back to it later. Turned on the Big Band Fox style, and the extraneous sound was not there. I then went to the Zydeco style and the sound was not there either. Again I played the FIDDLE in Upper 1 and played it solo and recorded it - no extraneous sound. This recording has 2 different settings on it. (44 Seconds)
https://app.box.com/s/oaj3q90b7voqtc3elbyis6rl7nxkgtam
What I think I have noticed in the FIDDLE voice is a 'vibration' sound, somewhat similar to the REPEAT effect in the Ensemble section? The Ensemble was not on.
It is noticeable in this recording (14 Seconds):
https://app.box.com/s/kqi4ehiwxnlaais1jlpwkxv4zg5mjbjd
Thank you,
tony _________________ t. : ) |
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Korghelper Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 584
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting… are you hearing the little clicking sound going on in the clean version of the sound? I wonder what that is? Are you using an external recorder to record with? Are you redlining it?
From those examples, it rather sounds like the culprit might be the reverb if it goes away if the reverb level is cut to zero. Try that…
But the clicking on the dry sound is worrying if it isn’t on everyone else’s same model arranger or isn’t an overload of the recorder. To me, it sounds like a loop artifact, the beginning and end of a loop being mismatched. It IS a factory sound, right?
If others don’t get the same thing, there is a possibility your internal data has got corrupted by maybe a static spike or voltage brownout. That hasn’t happened lately has it? Power go out while you were playing?
If data corruption is the problem, now’s the time to do a full User data backup (if the problem is the factory data corrupting, reloading your user data won’t make the problem reappear in all likelihood) and then reset the arranger and reload in the FULL factory resources including the sound ROM (if this particular model loads the ROM samples).
There’s a little bit more you can do to try to pin down the problem. These last recordings all focused on the fiddle sound solo’d, when you play the bad sound with a full style (not just the drums and percussion) do you hear the problem on any other sounds? Are the sounds you hear it on going through the reverb or chorus?
These last recordings have definitely cleared up some aspects of your problem, but introduced new ones. That’s troubleshooting in a nutshell! 🎹😎😂 |
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tony mads usa Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2013 Posts: 294 Location: rhode island usa
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Korghelper wrote: | Interesting… are you hearing the little clicking sound going on in the clean version of the sound? I wonder what that is? Are you using an external recorder to record with? Are you redlining it
Yes, the clicking sound is somewhat similar to the REPEAT effect in the Ensemble section. The Ensemble was not on.
I am recording directly into the KB as an mp3 and saving onto a USB. There is a lot of headroom in the recording volume.
From those examples, it rather sounds like the culprit might be the reverb if it goes away if the reverb level is cut to zero. Try that…
I'm not sure which reverb level you are talking about.
When I look at the SOUND screen for the FIDDLE the MFX for both the Reverb and Chorus are turned off.
But the clicking on the dry sound is worrying if it isn’t on everyone else’s same model arranger or isn’t an overload of the recorder. To me, it sounds like a loop artifact, the beginning and end of a loop being mismatched. It IS a factory sound, right?
I have posted the recordings I made on the Pa900 forum page asking folks to compare the FIDDLE sound on their KB. Yes, It is a Factory sound, in the Ethnic section.
If others don’t get the same thing, there is a possibility your internal data has got corrupted by maybe a static spike or voltage brownout. That hasn’t happened lately has it? Power go out while you were playing?
Not certain, but we might have had a 'brownout' while the KB was on.
If data corruption is the problem, now’s the time to do a full User data backup (if the problem is the factory data corrupting, reloading your user data won’t make the problem reappear in all likelihood) and then reset the arranger and reload in the FULL factory resources including the sound ROM (if this particular model loads the ROM samples).
I am not sure what you mean by "then reset the arranger" .
In anticipation of performing a Factory Restore. I am looking at this Media page in the KB:
https://app.box.com/s/tle6abd5g732ghyek51dgnel7y5vwtyv
The steps I think I would need to follow would be:
Full Resource Backup (onto a USB or the KB DISC ?)
https://app.box.com/s/hp0wd7ciytdasg7hc84329atbkfugm6v
Factory Restore
Resource Restore (restoring the Backup I created above.)
https://app.box.com/s/slfi9ndwob8ysmynqptetkrs1z4zrv9d
Hopefully that would bring me back to what the KB looked like before doing the Factory Restore, including any modified or third party styles I might have placed in empty Factory slots.
I an also assuming that the Factory Restore will have no affect on the data on my USB.
There’s a little bit more you can do to try to pin down the problem. These last recordings all focused on the fiddle sound solo’d, when you play the bad sound with a full style (not just the drums and percussion) do you hear the problem on any other sounds? Are the sounds you hear it on going through the reverb or chorus?
I tried other sounds both with and without EFX and did not hear any 'noise'.
Accidentally, I came upon the fact that with the FIDDLE sound the noise occurs only in the higher register, as shown in this recording:
https://app.box.com/s/gsn7oxltoj79vrmpe88kxl9pjvtpaiql
Thinking it might have something to do with 'pitch', I was somewhat surprised I didn't hear the 'noise sound' when playing the Mandolin and/or Accordion voices.
These last recordings have definitely cleared up some aspects of your problem, but introduced new ones. That’s troubleshooting in a nutshell! 🎹😎😂 | [/b] _________________ t. : ) |
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Korghelper Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 584
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, sorry. ‘Reset the arranger’ simply means a full restore of all factory resources including the ROM sounds and styles. Personally, I’d check for the problem BEFORE you load in any user resources (samples, styles, songbook entries etc.) so you can narrow down if the issue is with factory data or anything in yours. If you then load in your stuff and the problem reappears, you’re one step closer to finding the culprit. |
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tony mads usa Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2013 Posts: 294 Location: rhode island usa
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Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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korghelper
I was going through a number of Factory styles today and the 'sound' appeared in most of the styles, but in a variety of places ... sometimes it would be the Percussion Set being used, others time it was the Standard Set ... still other times it was a Violin voice, or even a guitar voice causing the noise ... it appears to me that it may be the 'frequency' of the sound that is corrupted (not sure if Im saying that right) because it was strange that the Fiddle made the noise when played in the upper octave but not in the lower octave. And yes, I would certainly follow your advice on checking the Factory sounds before reloading the User data.
Will doing a Factory Restore automatically restore the ROM sounds? I don't know if I have options when doing a Factory Restore.
Also, once again, I would appreciate you looking at my 'plan', below, and letting me know if my sequence is correct.
The steps I think I would need to follow would be:
Full Resource Backup (onto a USB or the KB DISC ?)
https://app.box.com/s/hp0wd7ciytdasg7hc84329atbkfugm6v
Factory Restore
Resource Restore (restoring the Backup I created above.)
https://app.box.com/s/slfi9ndwob8ysmynqptetkrs1z4zrv9d
Thanks again for your help.
tony _________________ t. : ) |
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Korghelper Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 584
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:05 am Post subject: |
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I am not 100% sure about the PA900, you would definitely want to check with someone a little more knowledgeable as you back up your data, and then restore the full factory resources.
But the whole idea is to NOT reload your own data into it before you have checked whether a full restore of the original factory resources (samples and styles) has solve the problem or not. The plan is to restore it to the condition that it would have left the factory in. If, after a full factory resources restore leaves you with the problem still, it is most likely you have a hardware problem.
But if the problem goes away after a full factory resources, but then reappears once you load in your own data, then it is likely that the problem exists there.
And, if the problem goes away after the factory restore, and doesn’t reappear once you have loaded in your data, you are good to go… 😎 |
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tony mads usa Senior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2013 Posts: 294 Location: rhode island usa
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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I did a Full Resource Backup and then a Factory Restore, tested the sounds and MOST unfortunately the distorted sounds are still there. So there must be some kind of corruption in the KB itself.
I am now trying to locate a KORG service center somewhere near me.
Korghelper, I really appreciate your time and effort in helping me with this problem. THANK YOU !!! _________________ t. : ) |
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AntonySharmman Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 3585 Location: Hellas
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:55 am Post subject: |
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tony mads usa
I don't have the required time to read the whole topic but if you inspect factory samples resources corruption then just a simple
factory restore via Media/Utility will not resolve such issues , this restores only directories not corrupted files/samples !
The only solution is to load official Korg Pa900_Factory_Reset_v101.pkg file of 523Mb that will reset mobo memory
and will reload all factory resources & samples from scratch.
If after this action you can still listen to any factory resources distortion then you face hardware issue !
Hope this helps. _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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