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Paolo@Korg
Korg Italy
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1090
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 Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:03 pm Post subject: Korg’s Professional Arranger - A Series Comparison |
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Hi,
Lurking here, and not yet sure about which Professional Arranger is right for you? Korg Product Specialist Luciano Minetti explains the fundamentals of what an arranger is and highlights the key differences between the keyboards currently offered in our Pa Series lineup: Pa300, Pa600, Pa700, Pa1000, and Pa4x.
Comparison Video
Here is a comparison chart:
Comparison Chart
Enjoy!
The Korg Italy Team |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Korg’s Professional Arranger - A Series Comparison |
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Hello Paolo,
nice to hear from you and Korg Italy team!
*
Why are the functions of the StylePlayer of the Pa1000 not usable with the Songbook as in Style Play mode?
This applies in particular to the selection of a running styles changed via sb-entry-selection because of its automatically loading of KbdSet#1. With Pa1000 transitions are no longer possible with the Songbook like in SongPlay mode.
The StyleToKbdSet functions and the Cue modes of style elements only work in SongPlay mode. This means that no more transitions are possible after selecting an Sb- entry with style elements that have been programmed with "Cue Mode = Immediate" for style elements that start immediately. This also means that a smooth, non-overlapping transition to a style is not possible, which should be continued with a recent keyboard set.
According to Korg Germany, there are no plans for the existing Korg arrangers to fix these deficiencies with an update (!?). This applies above all to the midrange models, because "Lock Keyboard Sets" and with v1.2 "Fill Mode" were added for the Pa4x at least with Update v3.0. That still is missing with Pa1000 (but we had in previous midrange models like Pa500/800 ..)
Why does Korg refuse not to correct the faulty and inadequate function?
PS: This deficiency was reported to Korg Germany immediately after the first delivery of the last model series, but has only been remedied for the Pa4x to this day.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
Last edited by siebenhirter on Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Interesting video Paulo.
Anyone interested in any Korg Arranger would be advised to check on when the model was released.
The 300 and 600 are now very old.
The 700 and 1000 both date back to 2017 and are only on v1.5 of their operating system hence a major update is long overdue.
The 4X is older than both the 700 and 1000 and it has been two years since it received its major OS update.
I am no fan of Yamaha but since 2018 they have released the Genos, SX 600, 700 and 900 models.
What do we get from Korg.....a host of new synths?
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Biggles wrote: | The 700 and 1000 both date back to 2017 and are only on v1.5 of their operating system hence a major update is long overdue.
The 4X is older than both the 700 and 1000 and it has been two years since it received its major OS update. |
There are exceptions, but as a rule, in my experience, most Korg keyboards seem to get zero or one major upgrade. Other than that, there may be bug fixes and small enhancements, which tend to come out within the first year or so of a board's release (or susbequent major upgrade). If there's a further OS update to the 700/1000/4X, it would be a nice surprise, but I wouldn't expect it.
I'm pretty pleased with the PA1000 as is, for my purposes. Pretty much the only "gotcha" I've run into that I'd wish to see addressed is that the organ drawbars weren't assigned to standard MIDI CCs, so I can't do something like plug in a Korg NanoKontrol to control the drawbars in real-time. |
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BR
Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1500
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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HI Paolo,
Nice to hear from you and thank you for this comparison chart and video.
I am not new to Pa Arrangers and used different model in the past for my live performances.
I had and used I30, Pa80, Pa1X, Pa900, Pa700, Pa1000 and my current keys is Pa4X.
The only Pa keyboard that I had problem was the PA1000.
I had many problem with my PA1000 (even with latest update v1.5) and even I sent to you my set for troubleshooting but
I've never got any solution or report from you in order to clarify the issue.
I am not the only one that had the same kind of problem with Pa1000.
In the end I sold my Pa1000.
The Pa1000 is a great keyboard and would keep it if it was not because of the problem that I've experienced.
I thank you again and appreciate your presence here in the forum, you are the only person from Korg that we have the chance
to communicate with.
For more information about the PA1000 problem, there is a topic here:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=119234&highlight= |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:18 pm Post subject: StylePlayer of the Pa1000 unsuitable with the Songbook |
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| Scott wrote: | | ... pleased with the PA1000 as is, for my purposes .. |
That maybe ok for your purposes - that always depends on how you use the keyboard and on which features you use it with .
To be used primarily as a style player with the songbook, it is unsuitable. Only one single style can be played with it because transitions like with the previous models Pa500 / 800 are no longer possible. That is due to the automatic loading process of KbdSet#1 and this cannot be prevented - not even if StyleToKbdSet is "OFF".
So that, of course, the cue mode of the style elements is not taken into account and does not work as intended for transitions. Also each recent KbdSet automatically is interrupted each time the Sb entry is changed. For transition no lock, no freeze of KbdSounds is possible - only Pa4x got updates to prevent this.
Luciano Minetti the Product Specialist do not explain these key differences between keyboards in the video - also is not necessary. But it would be important to finally compensate that faulty and inadequate functions of Pa1000 as was be done by updates with Pa4x ( "Lock Keyboard Sets", "Fill Mode" ..).
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
Last edited by siebenhirter on Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: StylePlayer of the Pa1000 unsuitable with the Songbook |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | That maybe ok for your purposes - that always depends on how you use the keyboard and on which features you use it with |
Of course.
| siebenhirter wrote: | | To be used primarily as a style player with the songbook, it is unsuitable. |
And it's good that you've made that known, for those to whom this would be important. I wouldn't count on a fix, but it could happen. Certainly since they did fix it in the Pa4X, we at least know that they do understand the issue.
The most valuable thing about letting people know about this is probably to prevent people from buying a model that won't do what they need. In your case, since you already own it, your best path might be to sell it and look for a used PA800 or Pa4x. (Or maybe there's a Yamaha model that works the way you need it to?) |
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Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1011
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Scott
The 700 and 1000 were both released mid 2017.
The latest OS for each is 1.5
That was a year ago, the 4X last OS update was two years ago.
I had a 700 and after loading in some of Korg’s Bonusware items I filled the misery amount of memory and it is not as though I had loaded a lot.
I cut my losses and sold it.
That was 15 months ago, and what have Korg released or done in the arranger market........nothing.
I am wanting an updated 4X, but not holding my breath, until then I will play my non Korg keyboard
Its like they want potential buyers to go directly to a Yamaha agency.
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:40 pm Post subject: StylePlayer of the Pa1000 unsuitable with the Songbook |
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Hello,
after being asked by Korgs Product Specialist in the video above about which of the Professional Arranger is right for me, my answer is conditional.
The recent Pa1000 would be right, if its StylePlayer - used in combination with songbook - at least ist equipped with the functionality which is known from the previous models.
That means to finally compensate that deficiencies with an update that has been required for years.
Korg only has been done this for the Pa4x - hence the question which one is right for me is annoying, because of missing support with midrange models.
I do not ask for best path to look for any other instrument, but rather the question is justified, why Korg after so many years refuse not to correct the faulty and inadequate function to get a professional midrange arranger with style functions as we had previously?
If that would happen it would be easier to answer which of the arrangers is right for me- even it was released some years ago.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
Last edited by siebenhirter on Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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moebrand
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 356
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:06 am Post subject: |
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I just saw the demo video.
I have Pa1000 and it doesn't have an HDMI out as shown in this video.
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Moebrand
Korg PA1000,
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Apple iMac 480GB SSD , 12GB DDR3 Ram,
logic Pro X , Studio One 3.
Dell laptop with 500GB ssd and 8GB Ram , Korg Pa Manager V4
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Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1011
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| moebrand wrote: | I just saw the demo video.
I have Pa1000 and it doesn't have an HDMI out as shown in this video. |
The earlier models only have a Composite Video output (phono type socket).
HDMI equipted Pa’s came later.
Alas the quality of the LCD screen’s resolution is reflected in the output, HD it is not.
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Biggles wrote: | | moebrand wrote: | I just saw the demo video.
I have Pa1000 and it doesn't have an HDMI out as shown in this video. |
The earlier models only have a Composite Video output (phono type socket).
HDMI equipted Pa’s came later.
Alas the quality of the LCD screen’s resolution is reflected in the output, HD it is not. |
Yep.
My PA700, bought in September 2017, has the RCA output for video...
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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OldtimerBill
Joined: 16 Feb 2021
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: StylePlayer of the Pa1000 unsuitable with the Songbook |
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| Scott wrote: | | siebenhirter wrote: | | That maybe ok for your purposes - that always depends on how you use the keyboard and on which features you use it with |
Of course.
| siebenhirter wrote: | | To be used primarily as a style player with the songbook, it is unsuitable. |
And it's good that you've made that known, for those to whom this would be important. I wouldn't count on a fix, but it could happen. Certainly since they did fix it in the Pa4X, we at least know that they do understand the issue.
The most valuable thing about letting people know about this is probably to prevent people from buying a model that won't do what they need. In your case, since you already own it, your best path might be to sell it and look for a used PA800 or Pa4x. (Or maybe there's a Yamaha model that works the way you need it to?) |
I have just about decided that the Korg PA700 is the keyboard I am going to buy but I don't understand the concern raised in this thread. Is this a fatal flaw in the operation of the keyboard? Can someone explain the problem in a way that someone who doesn’t own one of the affected key oards will understand?
Thanks. |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: StylePlayer of the Pa1000 unsuitable with the Songbook |
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| OldtimerBill wrote: | | ... I have just about decided that the Korg PA700 is the keyboard I am going to buy but I don't understand the concern raised in this thread. Is this a fatal flaw in the operation of the keyboard? Can someone explain the problem in a way that someone who doesn’t own one of the affected key oards will understand? .. |
I think in previous postings it was mentioned which functions were omitted compared to the previous models, so that these (Pa1000 / 700) can no longer be used as full-fledged style players as before.
| siebenhirter wrote: | ... That maybe ok for your purposes - that always depends on how you use the keyboard and on which features you use it with .
To be used primarily as a style player with the songbook, it is unsuitable. Only one single style can be played with it because transitions like with the previous models Pa500 / 800 are no longer possible. That is due to the automatic loading process of KbdSet#1 and this cannot be prevented - not even if StyleToKbdSet is "OFF".
So that, of course, the cue mode of the style elements is not taken into account and does not work as intended for transitions. Also each recent KbdSet automatically is interrupted each time the Sb entry is changed. For transition no lock, no freeze of KbdSounds is possible - only Pa4x got updates to prevent this.
Luciano Minetti the Product Specialist do not explain these key differences between keyboards in the video - also is not necessary. But it would be important to finally compensate that faulty and inadequate functions of Pa1000 as was be done by updates with Pa4x ( "Lock Keyboard Sets", "Fill Mode" ..). |
1) As a style player with Songbook, Style-To-KbdSet does not work in the "OFF" position, so that a style change with seamless registration of the real-time tracks without interruption is not possible, but is interrupted by the loading function of KbdSet # 1.
2) The "Fill Mode" function supplied with updates for the Pa4x was not subsequently submitted for the Pa1000, so that this function can no longer be used compared to previous models (Pa3x / 800/500)
3) Compared to previous models, the preferences for StylePlay can no longer be saved per performance / KbdSet, but only globally, so that you can no longer use its functions like the velocity control for different KbdSets, but are limited to the global settings.
4) Transposition can also no longer be saved per Performance / KbdSet, but only globally ...
So if you are looking for a somewhat demanding style player - like the previous models Pa3x / 800/500 - I think you hardly will be satisfied with the Pa1000.
To explain the different functions in detail, it would be helpful to read the manual.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Reuben
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 1613
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:28 am Post subject: |
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siebenhirter, you mention Tranpositions can't be saved to Performances on the pa700/1000 - is that also the case for saving in the Songbook?
I have the 3x and Tranpositions, volume settings, Single Touch Settings etc all can be saved in the Songbook so I'm surprised if Korg dropped this for these models - just curious.
The seamless transition thing I could live without as I don't tend to run one song into the other if that is what you mean by that feature but the other parts of Songbook are important to me.
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