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electronic drums instead of nano pad for MIDI control

 
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Abolger1980



Joined: 28 Jul 2020
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:18 am    Post subject: electronic drums instead of nano pad for MIDI control Reply with quote

Does anyone know if it's possible to use an electronic drum kit as a MIDI controller on the korg Kronos? at the moment I create my own drum patterns in sequencer mode but it's obviously limiting when using a key bed.. korg recommend the nanopad for this however I just wondered if anyone had experience in using a full electronic drum kit. Cheers
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krossuser4
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I played e-drums via MIDI to Kronos sequencer drum kit: regards, Ants

https://youtu.be/59hH9IK1eRA

(you hear Kronos drums)
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stevewahl
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Joined: 03 May 2017
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it should work as long as you have a way to get MIDI out of your electronic drum kit.

I've heard that many electronic drum kits are designed only with their own sound source in mind, though. You can record the MIDI out of it, and play it back in to the "brain", and get exactly what you expect. But send the midi into another sound module or VST and some slight difficulties may arise.

Some electronic drum kits will be very set in their ways as far as which drums are assigned to which note. If so you will probably need to use a drum kit with the GM note mapping, or transpose the incoming notes by an octave, or maybe just set up your own drum kit with the notes mapped appropriately.

Cymbal choking (grabbing the cymbal with your hand to stop it vibrating) is something the Kronos might not respond to correctly. I seem to recall they use aftertouch or maybe even poly aftertouch midi messages for that on kits that support it.

Variable hi-hat pedal position / pressure can also be an odd thing. With the drum kit, there's a CC message telling the position of the HH pedal, and hitting the hi-hat might generate different notes depending upon the position of the pedal, or it might generate the same note all the time, expecting the sound source to vary the sound based on the pedal position.

Sorry to be so vague on the particulars. I have a DrumKat, DrumKat EZ, and TrapKat controllers by Alternate mode -- far more than my actual ability should support having! -- and an Alesis D4, as a sound source and a brain for occasional experiments with older and DIY single-zone drum pads. The DrumKats are quite flexible in what they'll send and receive, because they have always had to depend on other sound sources. But so far I have not taken the time to connect the MIDI into my Kronos! Embarassed A bit embarrassing to admit that. Anyway, in my reading over the years, I've heard that Roland and perhaps Yamaha gear is not as flexible in areas like MIDI notes and such.

At any rate, the summary would be you can easily attach a midi drum set and get sounds out of the Kronos. If you're an accomplished drummer, some of the subtle details, the things that would lead you to spend $2000 or more on an electronic kit rather than just a $700 one, might not be exactly right, and it's up to you whether that's a problem or not.
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Equipment: Kronos 2 61, Kronos X 61, JP-08, Integra-7, Miniak, JV-1080, Ensoniq VFX & VFX-SD.
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Narioso
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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 260
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Yamaha DTXPRESS IV I bought 2008, so rather old now. But it has extensive support for midi, you can select every note for each pad and so forth. Starting velocity level when a pad is triggered so you can set snare from 1 to do rolls and ghost notes, and others are fine doing from 10-40 or something.

Foot controller is usually CC#04.

I use towards computer and Addictive Drums, but same thing apply for Kronos is my estimate.

Look if CC#04 is part is receiving, then most probably hihat openess is supported.

In my case first levels of HH is on F# key, and then it switch to A# key when release foot pedal more. This is all handled by mapping in Addictive Drums so I get a continuous feel of HH openess.

Check out midi implementation chart - if CC#04 is part of it it's most probably for drums foot controller.

You can also simulate from computer making a track with CC#04 and if it was F#2 and A#2 and check how it sounds.

My Addictive drums double up with taking CC#01(mod wheel) as foot controller, so something similar might be in Kronos too.

Does HH change if sending CC#01 or CC#04 to Kronos?
Would be surprised if not.

Can you do midi mapping of some sort to Kronos?

Just connecting drum engine will tell if you can get everything from a tick, to coosh to fully open.
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stevewahl
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Joined: 03 May 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, after experimenting, I find that the Kronos does not respond to CC#4 to affect the hi-hat sounds. It does allow CC#4 as an AMS source, so a continuously variable HH sound is not completely out of the question, but it's not going to be had without some serious work.

But I don't want to scare the original poster away with all the essoterica. For practically any electronic drum device with a midi out connection, you can make it trigger drum sounds in the Kronos. This includes pad devices like the Akai MPK Mini (Irish Acts has a demo using the MPD32 on youtube); and it also includes electronic drum sets like those from Yamaha, Roland, or Alesis. (Also any of the Alternate Mode DrumKat products, that old Yamaha DD-5 I got rid of, DIY stuff...)

It might not work the way you want immediately after you connect it. You may need to alter either the notes that the drum device sends, or what sounds the kronos plays when it receives those notes, to get the right sounds on each drum, especially because Korg tends to use their own drum note mapping while others often use the General Midi (GM) drum note map. Don't let that discourage you, use the GM drum kit as an easy shortcut to start, then come back here if you can't figure out how to get the others kits to work for you on your own.

If you're used to playing a real drum kit, you may notice some reduced capabilities, especially around the hi-hat, but chances are high you'll still find it more satisfying than tapping keyboard keys or little pads.
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Narioso
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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 260
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about the sequencer in Kronos - what is resolution in TPQ(ticks per quarternote)?

EDIT: remembered I have Kronos parameter guide
"Timing resolution is a maximum of q /480."

so would be really good.


I had drum machine Zoom 223 something, and it had 96 TPQ meaning it allows to create a swing as you play, and not just on the grid - like 16th notes or something.

To extend explanation a bit - 96 TPQ means 16th notes then have 24 steps between it everywhere to put snare(or whatever) just a bit late for a different feel etc.

I'm a bit curious for myself as well for future if dropping computer and going external gear further. A good sequencer need at least 96 TPQ or so, IMO. Or whatever you do realtime will just stick to a grid too much.

But midi clock itself for syncing is 24 TPQ, so that is minimum. 6 ticks each 16th note.

In computer it is usually between 480-960 TPQ.
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Abolger1980



Joined: 28 Jul 2020
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers everyone for your help. I think I'm going to go for the Alesis command mesh kit and play around with the midi. I already have the sr18 drum machine so I'll familiarise myself with midi controlling side first. Much appreciated folks 👍👍
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