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karmathanever Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10393
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:41 am Post subject: Studio monitors for recording mastering |
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Hi guys
So sorry - this has been asked so many times by others in many different environments, but I would just love some guidance regarding my need for some studio monitors - I need them for establishing recording sound mixes. As you know headphones are hopeless when mastering recordings!!!
I am multitrack (audio) recording my band directly into Logic Pro with amazing success, but need the ability to get the mastering (EQ, compression etc...) to a reasonable result. This band is a 3-piece - PA4X (& Kronos), lead/rhythm guitar and vocals (all independently tracked). The PA4X obviously providing the full backings (mostly styles) with drums, bass & etc...
I don't have thousands and thousands of dollars to spend but am prepared to get something as decent as possible and no doubt will need a sub too.
One restriction is, unfortunately, space as my music studio is small.
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Pete _________________ PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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Liviou2004 Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2017 Posts: 1150 Location: France
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Hello,
I've bought JBL LSR 308 but I wouldn't really advise them.
Today, I would rather buy Adam A7X. |
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D575 Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 1183 Location: UK (Dorset)
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:07 am Post subject: |
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https://www.genelec.com/8040b
Auditioning various monitors together with some of your favourite music would be preferable but the story doesn't end there... depending where your budget takes you it's also worth considering something like "Sonarworks Reference 4" room calibration software because your room will have a major impact on the results when doing your own Mastering
(Note: Genelec promote their own calibration software) _________________ Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer :
Last edited by D575 on Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:03 am; edited 2 times in total |
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bensel46 Full Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2018 Posts: 155 Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
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korg1 Approved Merchant
Joined: 17 Nov 2002 Posts: 955 Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:05 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion ,either monitors you use :Krk,Adam or Focal ,
it’s wiser to use 5inch speakers and no sub ,since your room is small.
Use of reference 4 is a great help .
Try to mix midranges separately as well .
Use sound analyzer also helps .
Nowadays daws have many great tools for monitoring the sound ,
either if you think it sounds great ,it might lack in frequencies ,or
If you are tired and can’t hear anymore,you can actually watch what is wrong in the mix .
Even if your speakers don’t tell the truth ,these tools never lie .
Greetings _________________
https://pasongstyles.com/
https://soundcloud.com/korgfx |
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Tom04 Junior Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2018 Posts: 70 Location: Germany, near Cologne
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I can recommend Genelec 8020 (and others). They offer a very good sound balance for mastering. |
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duby2 Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2002 Posts: 1377 Location: USA Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:46 pm Post subject: out put |
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No matter what monitors I use they all seem to sound different so I start this way...
Logic Pro ,,
For a start point ,
I use izotope,
ozone 9 for mastering and neutron3 and i love the mix assistant in neutron 3 and vocals nectar 3....then I start tweaks ... for my self..
but it sound like you got it under control,,, _________________ The Gold Standard OS 2.2
Pa4X, Pa 1000, Pa3x, Pa800, Pa80, i3 |
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korg1 Approved Merchant
Joined: 17 Nov 2002 Posts: 955 Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Ozone is a great tool if you want a start point with your mastering,
but cannot do miracles with a bad mix.
Before Ozon,you have to already have a good mix .
Studio one also has some great tools for helping you to understand which frequencies are out of range,which instruments play at the same frequencies etc. _________________
https://pasongstyles.com/
https://soundcloud.com/korgfx |
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Musicwithharry Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 694 Location: Anamosa, IA
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Studio monitors for recording mastering |
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karmathanever wrote: | Hi guys
So sorry - this has been asked so many times by others in many different environments, but I would just love some guidance regarding my need for some studio monitors - I need them for establishing recording sound mixes. As you know headphones are hopeless when mastering recordings!!!
I am multitrack (audio) recording my band directly into Logic Pro with amazing success, but need the ability to get the mastering (EQ, compression etc...) to a reasonable result. This band is a 3-piece - PA4X (& Kronos), lead/rhythm guitar and vocals (all independently tracked). The PA4X obviously providing the full backings (mostly styles) with drums, bass & etc...
I don't have thousands and thousands of dollars to spend but am prepared to get something as decent as possible and no doubt will need a sub too.
One restriction is, unfortunately, space as my music studio is small.
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Pete |
I am probably more interested in how your keyboards are being routed for the multitrack recording. Are you simply taking a stereo out from both keyboards and going to the multitrack or are you employing the multiple output capabilities on the boards for more separation and mixing control?
What the above query is really asking - are you sending the entire backing tracks mix from the main outs or are you sending some of the tracks through the Out1/Out2 jacks as well? I would ask the same of the Kronos.
Is the Kronos a layering tool for the PA4X, or is the Kronos offering some sequencing/Karma tracks as well?
In my studio, I have different keyboards with multiple outputs - the best example being my Ensoniq VFX-SD synth. It has main outputs AND aux outputs (each configured to be stereo). I send my bass/drum sounds through the AUX outputs so I can mix/EQ them a bit differently to make them sound more real. The rest of the sounds are going through the main outputs.
When I multitrack, I do the same thing with the VFX-SD, so the drums/bass are on a different set of tracks apart from the rest of the instruments.
If you aren't employing a similar strategy as above, I would recommend doing so, as it can add more life and realism to the tracks. We all know how great the drums are on our Korg units, but being able to mix their volumes separately in a mix (aside from the volume/eq controls within the board) will make a pretty huge difference. In more dense passages, being able to automate the drum tracks to be a bit louder will make the whole recording sound more real. As great as the drum sounds are, they are still electronic in nature (because they were sampled sounds) and they can get lost in the mix. Having them on a different set of tracks can mitigate this problem.
With regard to monitors, I have a few pair in my studio, but find myself using the Presonus Eris 3.5 monitors quite a lot. They have great separation and sparkle on the high end. The Eris 3.5 are a 3" woofer and a tweeter affair, but you can tune them and they really do sound good. They are very fairly priced at around $100USD for the pair.
When I am doing critical mixing/mastering, I use my JBL LSR305 monitors. I got mine for $100/each USD and they are really great. They have a 5" woofer and a tweeter system and sound really good as well.
For my laptop PC (located in a different area than my studio setup), I use a pair of Alesis M1Active 320USB and they have never failed me.
I also have a subwoofer in my main studio area but rarely use it as I think that it actually gets in the way. If I am writing dance tracks, I may turn it on to see how the low end is really acting, but I generally get more than I need from the JBL monitors.
For smaller rooms, a sub can actually be a hindrance. If it is not tuned correctly, then your mixing can often sound like the bass frequencies are lower in the mix because of the subwoofer. If the subwoofer is too loud, then this can happen fairly easily. The opposite can be the case if the sub is too loud.
I would, ideally, look for a pair of monitors that have at least a 5" woofer for the low end. For near-field monitoring, this is oftentimes more than enough to get a good mix. Obviously, a 6" or 7" would be a bit better. Anything bigger may require you to have a bigger room in order for the sound to fully develop and that can be a hindrance as well.
One more thing to keep in mind: If you are using the MAXX audio and/or compression/limiting tools on the keyboards on the final output stage, trying to master your tracks can prove somewhat difficult. Mastering tracks often requires using these types of tools on the entire mix and having them already in the tracks that are going to the multitrack will not allow the tools to do their job on the final mix.
Insert EFX are certainly warranted for processing guitar sounds and such, but any 'spit and polish' added to the overall mix that is going to the multitrack will make mixing kind of difficult. I recommend turning those tools off for the recorded tracks and let the hardware/software do those things during the final mixing stage.
Grace,
Harry _________________ Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Pete, I think you clarified who your audience is.
Your band ? For gigs ? for demos ?
Online streaming ?
For a demo for a record label ?
Its typical to have a few diff types of audiences.
But this clarification of ' who ' does influence your spend
on monitors
IOW, which 'group ' do you want to please or impress ? _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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BR Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 1493 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Studio monitors for recording mastering |
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Musicwithharry wrote: | ...
One more thing to keep in mind: If you are using the MAXX audio and/or compression/limiting tools on the keyboards on the final output stage, trying to master your tracks can prove somewhat difficult. Mastering tracks often requires using these types of tools on the entire mix and having them already in the tracks that are going to the multitrack will not allow the tools to do their job on the final mix.
Insert EFX are certainly warranted for processing guitar sounds and such, but any 'spit and polish' added to the overall mix that is going to the multitrack will make mixing kind of difficult. I recommend turning those tools off for the recorded tracks and let the hardware/software do those things during the final mixing stage.
Grace,
Harry |
Hi Grace,
Well said.
I just went through these steps between my Pa4X and my DAW for audio recording of some tracks.
Here is how I set up my Pa4X for recording in order to have more control in DAW:
Style Tracks in PA4X
Turn off all Master, Insert Effects and MAXX (I only leave ON the Volume in MAXX, in case more volume input needed for recording toward DAW)
Same Volume Level for all Style Tracks.
Panning Center all Style Tracks
All EQ control at zero. |
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Musicwithharry Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 694 Location: Anamosa, IA
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Studio monitors for recording mastering |
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BR wrote: | Musicwithharry wrote: | ...
One more thing to keep in mind: If you are using the MAXX audio and/or compression/limiting tools on the keyboards on the final output stage, trying to master your tracks can prove somewhat difficult. Mastering tracks often requires using these types of tools on the entire mix and having them already in the tracks that are going to the multitrack will not allow the tools to do their job on the final mix.
Insert EFX are certainly warranted for processing guitar sounds and such, but any 'spit and polish' added to the overall mix that is going to the multitrack will make mixing kind of difficult. I recommend turning those tools off for the recorded tracks and let the hardware/software do those things during the final mixing stage.
Grace,
Harry |
Hi Grace,
Well said.
I just went through these steps between my Pa4X and my DAW for audio recording of some tracks.
Here is how I set up my Pa4X for recording in order to have more control in DAW:
Style Tracks in PA4X
Turn off all Master, Insert Effects and MAXX (I only leave ON the Volume in MAXX, in case more volume input needed for recording toward DAW)
Same Volume Level for all Style Tracks.
Panning Center all Style Tracks
All EQ control at zero. |
Actually, my name is indeed Harry. I just use the word 'Grace' as my salutation
With the OP's request for monitors and my expanding it a bit for wanting to know the recording details, thank you for posting what you do.
It is much easier to add EFX/EQ to a recorded track than take it out
Grace,
Harry _________________ Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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BR Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 1493 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Studio monitors for recording mastering |
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Musicwithharry wrote: |
Actually, my name is indeed Harry. I just use the word 'Grace' as my salutation
With the OP's request for monitors and my expanding it a bit for wanting to know the recording details, thank you for posting what you do.
It is much easier to add EFX/EQ to a recorded track than take it out
Grace,
Harry |
Sorry Harry, my bad.
I read most of the time your posts, very useful and practical tips.
Be safe and keep up the good job. |
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karmathanever Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10393
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Hi all
THANKS so much for all this information - will investigate these options now.
I am mostly wanting to produce some good recordings initially for the band, friends and family - maybe later some demos.
Someone asked how I connect:-
I have guitar, PA4X and vocals connected to my Roland HS5 hub (individual inputs) - the HS5 connects directly to my Mac (USB) and I record directly into Logic (multitrack)
Thanks again
Pete _________________ PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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nitecrawler Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 971 Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Pete, I go with Tannoy Reveal 501's. Small and accurate for recording listenback and mastering. Use Reaper DAW and record everything live. No MIDI recording currently. I like to record everything on separate tracks for each individual sound source for maximum flexibility. That includes the separate tracks within my PA3xle. In terms of effects, I prefer the "less is better" approach. Have fun and experiment. The rule is there are no hard and fast rules, except save often. _________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=807494
Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors |
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