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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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 Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Not surprised you can get close to the $$4000 Fantom with the $199 Zenology subscription.
Last year, I noticed all the Roland XV sounds could be rented for your DAW. That was a big clue for me, that Roland was going to build their Cloud.
The future or at least the big promise, has always been software.
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Jan1
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I didn’t see this one coming, at least, not so soon.
You will be able to get a lifetime license for the upcoming Zenology Pro edition, a good deal for anyone who is interested in Roland sounds and does not want to spend $3000-4000 for a Fantom.
On the other hand, the software business has a LOT of other companies offering top end quality plug ins... |
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Jan1 wrote: | I didn’t see this one coming, at least, not so soon.
You will be able to get a lifetime license for the upcoming Zenology Pro edition, a good deal for anyone who is interested in Roland sounds and does not want to spend $3000-4000 for a Fantom.
On the other hand, the software business has a LOT of other companies offering top end quality plug ins... |
I have the FA, and thought to sell it last fall. I noticed back then, the FA equivalent [ for the most part] could be rented on the Roland Cloud.
That was my wake up call.
I am in the camp where I was bothered by the high Fantom price, and the fact it did not have Integra sounds, etc etc. etc.
Roland invested in the Cloud some time ago, and its no surprise they used the subscription model [ its like a rental] to attract more users. Software co's have been offering subscription since the early 2000's.
I didn't expect them to offer the Fantom equivalent on the Cloud so soon.
it is aggressive to offer Zenology now but they must have business reasons.
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Achieve your musical dreams
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Devnor
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Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 222
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Jan1 wrote: |
You're not entirely correct, just read what Roland wrote about Zenology, I quote:
"ZENOLOGY will soon support Model Expansions for perfect recreations of classic Roland synthesizers like the JUPITER-8, JUNO-106, SH-101, JX-8P and more. They use Analog Behavior Modeling to capture the essence of these legendary instruments and are optimized for high polyphony with an interface inspired by the original—but reimagined for use in your DAW"
So, Zencore is connected to ABM.
The way I understand it ZENCore is a synthesis engine and ABM is a particular tonegeneration method using the ZENCore synthesis engine.
Don't know if that's entirely right though, I'm no Zenologist. |
Zenologist, LOL
Why have ABM in Jupiters when ZCore could do all of that? When I saw those interfaces for Jupiter 8 & others, I felt those were control panels designed to look like the originals - ZCore preconfigured for the task. When you dial up the SH101 you no longer see options like step LFOs you normally would in Z Core edit. At it's Core, it's still ZCore. No pun intended.
Zenology pro could be insight into where Roland is taking Fantom. I've always doubted ABM would come to Fantom but I'm good with these upgrades to ZCore should they come to fruition.
The idea this plugin replaces the Fantom is silly.
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Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Devnor wrote: | | Jan1 wrote: |
You're not entirely correct, just read what Roland wrote about Zenology, I quote:
"ZENOLOGY will soon support Model Expansions for perfect recreations of classic Roland synthesizers like the JUPITER-8, JUNO-106, SH-101, JX-8P and more. They use Analog Behavior Modeling to capture the essence of these legendary instruments and are optimized for high polyphony with an interface inspired by the original—but reimagined for use in your DAW"
So, Zencore is connected to ABM.
The way I understand it ZENCore is a synthesis engine and ABM is a particular tonegeneration method using the ZENCore synthesis engine.
Don't know if that's entirely right though, I'm no Zenologist. |
Zenologist, LOL
Why have ABM in Jupiters when ZCore could do all of that? When I saw those interfaces for Jupiter 8 & others, I felt those were control panels designed to look like the originals - ZCore preconfigured for the task. When you dial up the SH101 you no longer see options like step LFOs you normally would in Z Core edit. At it's Core, it's still ZCore. No pun intended.
Zenology pro could be insight into where Roland is taking Fantom. I've always doubted ABM would come to Fantom but I'm good with these upgrades to ZCore should they come to fruition.
The idea this plugin replaces the Fantom is silly. |
It may be silly to you, but not to me.
I’m in doubt about what I will do, never a good moment to make a decision, so I’ll wait until I’m sure.
By the way, where did you get the info that Roland definitely will update the sequencer? |
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Devnor
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Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 222
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Jan1 wrote: |
It may be silly to you, but not to me.
I’m in doubt about what I will do, never a good moment to make a decision, so I’ll wait until I’m sure.
By the way, where did you get the info that Roland definitely will update the sequencer? |
I don't understand why you need to make any decision. The plug-in is 1/16 of 1/3 of the Fantom capability. If you want a Fantom number of instances of a Roland plugin running inside your DAW, say 10 or more, go right ahead. Good luck to you.
The response to Zenology is largely negative but as a Fantom owner I'm happy. More people get to play with ZCore, some will contribute, many will complain but I get a ZCore editor and patch exchange for my synth.
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Jan1
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| The CPU requirements for ABM models is still unknown, they do require less processing power than ACB models. But how much less this is on a PC is anybody’s guess. |
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Musicwithharry
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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So, I watched the commercial for the Zenology. It seems interesting, in a way.
If I understand right, everything is going to be software-based?
I am not sure that this is a really a good way to go for everyone. Not all of us use DAWs and Plugins. I prefer a good hardware synth and to integrate the hardware synths with a good DAW still brings problems every now and then, right (latency, etc...).
What this Zenology WOULD allow Roland to do is create workstation or synth hardware shells (hosts) and allow the user the ability to create their own workstation/synth according to what they want.
I could imagine a workstation shell, in a 61/76/88 key format with a touch screen, controllers, etc... it would have a base OS for simple operation and then allow for the user to add whatever sound pack they are renting/buying/subscribing to be loaded within in the shell for use on stage. I guess that it would be more of a host controller than anything but with added features of a sequencer, etc...
If memory serves, they already have something similar with the System 8 and its three different sound packs for it. Wasn't this their 'Plug Out' technology?
I still prefer my hardware synths but a hybrid that was configurable would be really cool and maybe Roland is evolving to that point.
Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
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Koekepan
Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Roland have found a pooch to screw, in my book.
ACB? No problem, it sounds fine and I don't care about audiophile quibblings about what you hear in a tuned listening room over $4000 monitors.
Supernatural? A tone of its own, and very usable.
Zen? I'm on board, looks like a very nice model for sound design, within its limits.
Cloud delivery?
... you lost me. I don't want to rent something for as long as the servers are up, my (capped) internet connection has bandwidth left, and I can wait around. I bought it. I want it now. Even if the electric grid is down and the network is offline.
For the engine, I might get an MC707. Maybe. For everything else, I hear Yamaha and KORG are still selling devices that aren't net.crippled. |
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Broadwave
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 1118
Location: Manchester UK
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I have a feeling that if I tried to do all the things I can do on the Fantom but with Zenology Pro, my Mac would soon grind to a halt!
I bought the new Fantom purely on the fact that it had 4 VA oscillators per tone along with Moog, Jupiter and SCI modeled filters (the analogue VCF is pointless without being able to modulate it!).
Everything else, VPiano, Expansion Sounds and the "possibility" that it "might" be upgradable with ABM Models etc. is a bonus.
The Jupiter X doesn't interest me one iota... I'm keeping my System 8.
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Devnor
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Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 222
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Broadwave wrote: | | I have a feeling that if I tried to do all the things I can do on the Fantom but with Zenology Pro, my Mac would soon grind to a halt! |
Zenology lite is more efficient than ACB plugins. I had 8 simultaneous instances running on my 6 core mac with some CPU to spare. Nothing else but 1 audio drum loop. That computer would grind to a halt with 4 of the ACBs.
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Broadwave wrote: | I have a feeling that if I tried to do all the things I can do on the Fantom but with Zenology Pro, my Mac would soon grind to a halt!
. |
I have an older MBP with 16 meg ram. Hopefully it can handle Rolands cloud offering.
Realistically, I accept that Macs from a few yrs ago might not be up to the task. There will always be limits , as time marches on.
I don't assume that our older machines were designed to be current recording studios. More like a work around. Do I sound old ? 
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
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Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Musicwithharry wrote: | | What this Zenology WOULD allow Roland to do is create workstation or synth hardware shells (hosts) and allow the user the ability to create their own workstation/synth according to what they want. |
True, I have to give credit to Roland for creating a workstation that (probably) will allow users to configure it for themselves in terms of which engines /models they want to install.
| GregC wrote: | | Do I sound old ? Wink |
You sound more like someone who could use a new computer🙂 |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Jan1 wrote: | | Musicwithharry wrote: | | What this Zenology WOULD allow Roland to do is create workstation or synth hardware shells (hosts) and allow the user the ability to create their own workstation/synth according to what they want. |
True, I have to give credit to Roland for creating a workstation that (probably) will allow users to configure it for themselves in terms of which engines /models they want to install.
| GregC wrote: | | Do I sound old ? Wink |
You sound more like someone who could use a new computer🙂 |
You are probably right . Sometimes I fight the future 
And my car is from 2008 and I don't care. Even my house is newer [ 5 yrs new]
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Achieve your musical dreams
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