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How does NanoPad2 trigger Kronos Pads?

 
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timg11
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:22 pm    Post subject: How does NanoPad2 trigger Kronos Pads? Reply with quote

I recently purchased the NanoPad2.

With the Nanopad in default configuration (right out of the box), I plugged the NanoPad2 into the Kronos, and select Program A00 Kronos German Grand. The top row of pads on the NanoPad play some nice jazz chords using the Piano program. The bottom row play single notes starting at C2.

The Kronos Pads are found to be programmed for those chords in the A00 program, and can also be played from the touchscreen.

I don't understand how the NanoPad2 is triggering the Kronos pads.
When I plug the NanoPad2 into my computer and look at the output on MIDIox, all the pads output single notes in the C2 range on MIDI Ch 1. The upper left pad generates a C#2 and so on.
As you would expect, playing C#2 on the Kronos keyboard doesn't trigger the Pad1, so why does a C#2 from the NanoPad trigger the Kronos Pad1?

Where is the mapping of the NanoPad2 physical pads to the Kronos virtual Pads taking place? I don't see anything in the Korg Kontrol editor.

In the Kronos MIDI implementation, it says Pads are CC#110-117, but that is not the data that the NanoPad sends. Only standard Note On and Note off, and nothing else. No Sysex either.

I have searched for the complete MIDI implementation chart, but have been unable to find it. I found the one-page version, but there is nothing on SysEx.

What am I missing in understanding how the NanoPad controls the Kronos Pads?
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voip
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happens, when the nanoPAD is plugged into the Kronos USB-A ports, is explained in the Parameter Guide - "The Kronos will automatically determine the MIDI assignments of the controller's pads 1-8 and map them directly to the Kronos pads." So this is an internal translation, the translated notes being then output by the Kronos' MIDI Out.

Have you looked at the notes assigned to the nanoPAD's second row of pads, and how this corresponds to the notes played?

.
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Xenophile
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started looking into this myself. It is in the USB MIDI Controllers section of the Kronos Parameters Guide.
Quote:
When a supported controller is connected, the KRONOS will automatically determine the MIDI assignments of the controller’s pads 1-8, and map them directly to the KRONOS pads. If settings on the controller are changed (such as when selecting a different Scene on a nanoPAD2), the mapping will be updated automatically.

This mapping uses a special internal mechanism, independent of the Pads 1-8 parameters on the Global 2–1: Controllers page (see “Pads 1-8” on page 793). Only the Korg USB controllers listed above are supported. If you change the controller’s assignments for the pads (for instance, by selecting a different Scene on the controller), the KRONOS will update its mapping automatically.

From the perspective of MIDI, these USB-connected pads act exactly the same as if you were touching the on-screen pads. Playing the USB pads will transmit controller or note data as determined by the Global Controllers Pads 1-8 parameters (see above) and the Global 1–1: MIDI page Pads
MIDI Out parameter (see “Pads MIDI Out” on page 785).

Messages from the standard MIDI input and from the USB B port (for MIDI to and from a computer) are not affected by the automatic pad mapping.
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Xenophile
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if you want to change what the top row of pads on the Nanopad2 do, you have to change the settings for the pads on Kronos.
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can download free KORG KONTROL Editor and check/change configuration of your NanoPad2
here is a link to software:
https://www.korg.com/us/support/download/software/0/156/1354/
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Xenophile
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got confused because I had tried using Korg Kontrol Editor to change the note values being sent by the top row of pads... but Kronos doesn't care how you have set up the Nanopad2... It will always automatically map that top row to play the Kronos' virtual pads.

Quote:
If you change the controller’s assignments for the pads (for instance, by selecting a different Scene on the controller), the KRONOS will update its mapping automatically...

...these USB-connected pads act exactly the same as if you were touching the on-screen pads.
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Xenophile
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a related question.

Does anyone have any tips/tricks to facilitate mapping your favorite percussion sounds to Nanopad2 pads?

I would like to have it mapped to a program so that I always get the same assortment of congas, bongos, blocks/claves, cowbells, hand-claps etc. on the pads.

Is there a Kronos "drumkit" sound that is similar to EZ Drummer's "Latin Kit?" I'm guessing that it would have to be modified at the Program level to re-map the notes to where I want them on the Nanopad. And I have now learned that I will need to change the Kronos' virtual pad settings to have them send midi note numbers instead of triggering chords.
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timg11
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenophile wrote:
I got confused because I had tried using Korg Kontrol Editor to change the note values being sent by the top row of pads... but Kronos doesn't care how you have set up the Nanopad2... It will always automatically map that top row to play the Kronos' virtual pads. .


Exactly my point - there is something going on "behind the scenes" that is non-obvious and not described in the Kronos or NanoPad2 documentation (at least that I have found yet).
If the NanaPad communicated by traditional MIDI, we could see the "handshake", but it is over USB, which is much harder to trace.
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enigmahack
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timg11 wrote:
Xenophile wrote:
I got confused because I had tried using Korg Kontrol Editor to change the note values being sent by the top row of pads... but Kronos doesn't care how you have set up the Nanopad2... It will always automatically map that top row to play the Kronos' virtual pads. .


Exactly my point - there is something going on "behind the scenes" that is non-obvious and not described in the Kronos or NanoPad2 documentation (at least that I have found yet).
If the NanaPad communicated by traditional MIDI, we could see the "handshake", but it is over USB, which is much harder to trace.


Okay, I haven't posted in a while but I've been mucking about with the internals of Linux with the Kronos and can give a little more information.

There's no MIDI involved whatsoever. There's a pre-built linux driver that supports a variety of devices; In the code, it's referred to as "USBMidiAccessory" and makes a direct USB link via the driver.

Long story short, the linux kernel has a built-in driver that takes the input as an extension of the Kronos and involves no MIDI data from what I can tell. Any MIDI would likely be generated as an output from the Kronos engine itself.
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Xenophile
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timg11 wrote:
there is something going on "behind the scenes" that is non-obvious and not described in the Kronos or NanoPad2 documentation

It is described in the Kronos documentation. I just quoted it for you.

Once more...

Quote:
When a supported controller is connected, the KRONOS will automatically determine the MIDI assignments of the controller’s pads 1-8, and map them directly to the KRONOS pads. If settings on the controller are changed (such as when selecting a different Scene on a nanoPAD2), the mapping will be updated automatically.

This mapping uses a special internal mechanism, independent of the Pads 1-8 parameters on the Global 2–1: Controllers page (see “Pads 1-8” on page 793). Only the Korg USB controllers listed above are supported. If you change the controller’s assignments for the pads (for instance, by selecting a different Scene on the controller), the KRONOS will update its mapping automatically.

From the perspective of MIDI, these USB-connected pads act exactly the same as if you were touching the on-screen pads. Playing the USB pads will transmit controller or note data as determined by the Global Controllers Pads 1-8 parameters (see above) and the Global 1–1: MIDI page Pads
MIDI Out parameter (see “Pads MIDI Out” on page 785).

Messages from the standard MIDI input and from the USB B port (for MIDI to and from a computer) are not affected by the automatic pad mapping.
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timg11
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenophile wrote:
I just quoted it for you.

Yes, I read and understood that part. I was looking for the documentation of the exact messages that made that "special internal mechanism" happen. I was thinking that the NanoPad was just a USB MIDI device, and the behaviour was accomplished with SysEx messages that were (AFAIK) undocumented. If that were the case another programmable MIDI device (other than a NanoPad) could potentially provide the same direct activation of the Kronos pads.

@enigmahack describes it clearly:
Quote:
There's no MIDI involved whatsoever. There's a pre-built linux driver


Thanks everyone for the comments.
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