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| Which one do you like more? |
| Kronos |
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28% |
[ 2 ] |
| Zebra |
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28% |
[ 2 ] |
| They're the same! |
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42% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 7 |
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Message |
CharlesFerraro
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 955
Location: California
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 Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:23 am Post subject: Zebra2 vs Kronos2 |
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Quick comparison between two very powerful synths.
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Lightbringer
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 356
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounded about the same to me, though I was watching on a tablet through it’s small speakers. |
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Poseidon
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Diva and Zebra2 are my favorites, joyfull and the sound is SUPERB ! |
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Peas&Carrots
Full Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 158
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Subtle differences but essentially the same.
Next quest - can Kronos replicate Zebra 2 ?
edit: I can't figgure out why there are fairly limited free Kronos patches available online, especially as it can do such amazing synth stuff. I've recently had time with a Virus ti2 and there are loads of free patches available but with Kronos we need to spend $$ ££ |
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CharlesFerraro
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 955
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the feedback Lightbringer. Good to know the sounds are pretty close. Replications like that are tough. That’s mainly the kind of work I was doing on Wavestate.
I agree Poseidon, the U-He synths are pretty darn incredible. Love the top-o-the-line Korg and U-He stuff.
| Peas&Carrots wrote: | Subtle differences but essentially the same.
Next quest - can Kronos replicate Zebra 2 ? |
Depends on the signal path. Zebra 2 is modular so there’s a lot more options there as far as mixing and matching goes. If I build a patch in Zebra 2 with the Kronos in mind then I’ll be able to get them sounding similar. Generally speaking, it’s easier for Zebra to mimic things the Kronos is doing unless it’s just outside of it’s capabilities.
Even if Zebra 2 is a more capable synth than any particular Kronos engine, I do like the focused and streamlined multi-engine approach of the Kronos. Zebra 2 is a world of possibilities that’s easier to get lost in. The Kronos feels more goal oriented with a specific synthesis type per engine while still offering nearly limitless flexibility.
I love both tbh but as of now I only own the Kronos so it’s my main synth for everything. Really hoping U-He hires me for Zebra 3 if only so I can get more into their stuff. |
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Poseidon
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Peas&Carrots wrote: | | I can't figgure out why there are fairly limited free Kronos patches available online ... |
Good question I was wondering too.
It's been 9 years since Kronos was introduced, and the community sharing is very slim.
Most stuff ( incl. YouTube tutorials, tips etc ) are dated, not much activities these days. |
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Lightbringer
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 356
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| Peas&Carrots wrote: | | I can't figgure out why there are fairly limited free Kronos patches available online, especially as it can do such amazing synth stuff. I've recently had time with a Virus ti2 and there are loads of free patches available but with Kronos we need to spend $$ ££ |
I can only offer you my personal theory. Creating a "proper" Kronos patch takes a heck of a lot of time and effort! By "proper" I mean not only do you have to create a stunning sound. You also have to wire up sensible sound adjustments for the RT knobs, switches, X/Y and vector joysticks, ribbon controller, etc. You'd probably also want to add a drum track, set up a Karma along with the RT controls and map out some good sounding scenes. Not to mention if you want to offer some combis as part of your sound set... even more work.
By the time you've done all that for a bank of patches, if you did great work, might as well look at selling it, I suppose?
There are actually quite a few great free and/or donation patch banks though. Here are a few links to get started. Search the forum for even more (admittedly they are not super easy to find).
Purgatory Creek (go to the menu Korg Kronos--> Free sounds)
Qui Robinez
PJP's Wavestation Reloaded
Some tucked away on korgforums website |
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CharlesFerraro
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 955
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Lightbringer wrote: |
I can only offer you my personal theory. Creating a "proper" Kronos patch takes a heck of a lot of time and effort! By "proper" I mean not only do you have to create a stunning sound. You also have to wire up sensible sound adjustments for the RT knobs, switches, X/Y and vector joysticks, ribbon controller, etc. You'd probably also want to add a drum track, set up a Karma along with the RT controls and map out some good sounding scenes. Not to mention if you want to offer some combis as part of your sound set... even more work.
By the time you've done all that for a bank of patches, if you did great work, might as well look at selling it, I suppose?
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Really excellent breakdown of everything that goes into Kronos sound design. Nice to see someone write it all out like that 😁👍 |
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Poseidon
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Lightbringer wrote: | I can only offer you my personal theory. Creating a "proper" Kronos patch takes a heck of a lot of time and effort! By "proper" I mean not only do you have to create a stunning sound. You also have to wire up sensible sound adjustments for the RT knobs, switches, X/Y and vector joysticks, ribbon controller, etc. You'd probably also want to add a drum track, set up a Karma along with the RT controls and map out some good sounding scenes. Not to mention if you want to offer some combis as part of your sound set... even more work.
By the time you've done all that for a bank of patches, if you did great work, might as well look at selling it, I suppose?
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To make a bank of patches it's definietly a time consuming task,
and a reward ( incl. financial ) is justified if that person wishes so.
I agree with your theory.
I add that there are still some communities, like Online Library for Blofeld run by Fabio Barbon ( https://blofilled.neuma.studio/ ). Some of those patches are simply phenomenal and not easy to make, still, they are free.
I would say that "Vibes surrounding a synth" have some influence as well. |
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Liviou2004
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 1150
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Charles, very interesting thread, as usual.
I must say I've found the Kronos a richer tone, that time.
There is one point too, which has been told on your other toll, that is the fact that analog synth VCO are running free and so, when stacking two or three of them, it creates a random phase shift. We have seen, too, that HD-1 is unable to simulate that.
I would like to know is Zebra can do that ?
Finally, I would like to say it's easy to find some soft synths which are going further than Kronos (as the huge Reaktor 6 or even the free VCV Rack and many others) but I wonder if it's really significant and relevant ; as there are two completely different concepts ? I would like to know your opinion. |
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CharlesFerraro
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 955
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Liviou2004 wrote: | There is one point too, which has been told on your other toll, that is the fact that analog synth VCO are running free and so, when stacking two or three of them, it creates a random phase shift. We have seen, too, that HD-1 is unable to simulate that.
I would like to know is Zebra can do that ? |
Yup Zebra 2 can do random phase start position unlike HD-1. Though with HD-1, patching a random per-voice LFO into pitch is a close approximation.
MOD-7, AL-1, PolySIX Ex, and the MS-20Ex can all do free running oscillators.
| Liviou2004 wrote: | | Finally, I would like to say it's easy to find some soft synths which are going further than Kronos (as the huge Reaktor 6 or even the free VCV Rack and many others) but I wonder if it's really significant and relevant ; as there are two completely different concepts ? I would like to know your opinion. |
I think synthesizers need to be a little LESS complex at times so I can spend less time making a sound and more time on actual music. These days I’m so bogged down with options that when Gadget came along, it really brought me back to the roots of songwriting. You can do so much with so little that even simple Gadget synths can sound great when sequenced and automated. So yeah while synths like Zebra or suites like Reaktor offer massive amounts of sound design potential... sometimes less is more when it comes to creativity. |
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Lightbringer
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 356
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Poseidon wrote: |
To make a bank of patches it's definietly a time consuming task,
and a reward ( incl. financial ) is justified if that person wishes so.
I agree with your theory.
I add that there are still some communities, like Online Library for Blofeld run by Fabio Barbon ( https://blofilled.neuma.studio/ ). Some of those patches are simply phenomenal and not easy to make, still, they are free.
I would say that "Vibes surrounding a synth" have some influence as well. |
Agreed, I think it's some combination of those things. The individual owners of a synth essentially set the vibe around it. Hey, that's us! The smart people I've met here at the largest gathering (that I know of) of Kronos owners.
Putting 2 and 2 together, we could do something to (re)energize the vibe around the Kronos. A korgforums community bank? I know for me, creating my own bank of 32 or 64 "proper" free Kronos programs feels like a daunting task. On the other hand I would probably contribute a couple or a half dozen to a community bank.
Charles (and quite a few others, don't want to start naming names or I'll inadvertently miss people) have laid a strong foundation by doing some very technical tutorials on sound design elements available to us.
If we tried to do something like a community bank, do you think we'd get many participants? It's probably an excellent learning opportunity for any who would participate to share what they've learned, compare notes, ask questions. |
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Liviou2004
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 1150
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| CharlesFerraro wrote: | | Liviou2004 wrote: | There is one point too, which has been told on your other toll, that is the fact that analog synth VCO are running free and so, when stacking two or three of them, it creates a random phase shift. We have seen, too, that HD-1 is unable to simulate that.
I would like to know is Zebra can do that ? |
Yup Zebra 2 can do random phase start position unlike HD-1. Though with HD-1, patching a random per-voice LFO into pitch is a close approximation.
MOD-7, AL-1, PolySIX Ex, and the MS-20Ex can all do free running oscillators. |
I've seen what you say for MOD-7, with "Phase Sync" parameter set to "Random", it's Ok too, in AL-1, with "Initial Phase" parameter, set to "Random" but I don't see such a parameter in MS-20 and Polysix. Could you please tell me what parameter are concerned ? Thanks
| CharlesFerraro wrote: | | I think synthesizers need to be a little LESS complex at times so I can spend less time making a sound and more time on actual music. These days I’m so bogged down with options that when Gadget came along, it really brought me back to the roots of songwriting. You can do so much with so little that even simple Gadget synths can sound great when sequenced and automated. So yeah while synths like Zebra or suites like Reaktor offer massive amounts of sound design potential... sometimes less is more when it comes to creativity. |
I absolutely agree, it's easy to fall overwhelmed by the huge capacities and possibilities of all the current stuffs, and spend all our free time in exploring the technical sides and never play music ! |
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Peas&Carrots
Full Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 158
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Lightbringer wrote: | | Creating a "proper" Kronos patch takes a heck of a lot of time and effort! etc etc |
I totally agree and I'm not underestimating the amount of work needed but that argument mostly applies to commercial patches that have to be fully polished with all the bells and whistles. That is of course why they are paid for patches.
Sometimes just a starting point is needed - most are capable of allocating AMS to knob 8 for example or setting up a Karma module. Some of us find it difficult to allocate time to making sounds from scratch. Great fun but not productive especially after a day at work...
| Lightbringer wrote: | | There are actually quite a few great free and/or donation patch banks though. |
There is sporadic stuff about but not nearly enough to be classed as any sort of library.
| Lightbringer wrote: | | If we tried to do something like a community bank, do you think we'd get many participants? It's probably an excellent learning opportunity for any who would participate to share what they've learned, compare notes, ask questions. |
A community sound bank would be a Brilliant idea. Maybe Charles will be the first contributor?  |
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Lightbringer
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 356
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Peas&Carrots wrote: |
A community sound bank would be a Brilliant idea. Maybe Charles will be the first contributor? |
I would probably be willing to try to coordinate it (as sort of a cheerleader) if there were enough people interested in participating in something like this that it seemed like it could get across the finish line.
Maybe I'll start another thread to gauge interest. |
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