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No new Workstation @ namm
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afr
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: No new Workstation @ namm Reply with quote

Up to now the only official teaser released by Korg seems to be about a kind of groove Synth or something similar

So no new Workstation replacing the Kronos

Do you think we'll see a surprise at namm?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we frequently discuss this at the Kronos forum.

To summarize, IMO, a new W/s or equivalent seems more unlikely as we tick each day towards Jan 15 NAMM.

Here in the US, the 2015 Kronos price has not changed and are available.

Major product transitions are tricky business. Korg protects its distributors and retail chain from sudden expensive changes. Thats standard business stuff.
My tea leaves.

Just the same, for my planning, I wait for Jan 15 if anything significant arrives from any music production direction.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that the KRONOS will be 9 years old when the next Namm show launches, I sure as heck hope they launch a new workstation.

What worries me though is that they may not have much interest in this market any more. Maybe the days of flagship workstations is coming to an end?

It’s also very hard to compete. Take the new Roland Fantom for example. The best deal right now on a 61 key version in Europe is €3,000. That’s a huge amount of money for a largely repackaged synth with better DAW integration. (what I mean by repackaged is that it still sound largely like my Integra 7). The DAW integration is not worth the 3K when you can buy a controller keyboard for a fraction of the prices that does a better job.

For 3K I could buy a new DAW, NI Komplete, Omnisphere, and a NI Controller Keyboard. Head to head, that setup would destroy a fantom in ability and sound. Integration is pretty tight too with that kind of software. Plus I can add whatever software I want to expand that, unlike a Fantom which is a closed synth.

I think this is the reality Hardware Manufactures need to face and they should have seen this coming for the last 20 years as the world very clearly moves towards software. Hardware manufactures need to stop trying to do it all. You cannot produce all the hardware and software while also expect to compete. They need to open their hardware to become a host for software synths and such.

IF KORG made such a move and their next workstation was mainly a VST host, they could even sell their own exsisting VST's for their own hardware. Makes sense to me.

Regards
Sharp.
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Kontrol49
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether Korg have something workstation wise to offer at Namm Who Knows....Only a few weeks to wait...A Kronos Killer though.....I very much doubt it,What else can they offer to take it to the next level???I think it needs to be brought down in its offerings and made more sensibly priced along the lines of the Montage/Modx Paradox

Have Workstations become a dying breed....Again who knows, certainly computer technology has taken over and replaced a lot of things, for a user like myself who was heavily Workstation based for a many number of years,even for me a Workstation has become a redundant tool,Certainly for me I have embraced more slimmed down performance machines in favour of an all in one solution I need more immediate based instruments that cater to my ever changing sets,The Kronos as a package was too overkill

I do feel that there is a market for a performance Synth/Stage Piano based on Kronos Technology,but without all the bells and whistles of the workstation

I for one would welcome an instrument that had everything the Kronos has but without the sequencer/Audio recorder capabilities,with more hands on realtime controls,and no don't point me in the direction of the Korg Grandstage,its no where near the sort of dream machine performance based kronos I'd like to see.
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Devnor
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you dig into Fantom sound design, it's totally different than integra or my JU80.

Quote:
For 3K I could buy a new DAW, NI Komplete, Omnisphere, and a NI Controller Keyboard. Head to head, that setup would destroy a fantom in ability and sound. Integration is pretty tight too with that kind of software. Plus I can add whatever software I want to expand that, unlike a Fantom which is a closed synth.


Those options have been available for years.

The new Fantom is pretty fantastic after all these months. I'm really happy about it and look forward to a new Kronos. I expect its coming soon.
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afr
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From fb page Korg UK

In the latest episode of microKAST, we delve into the world of music workstations - covering a little bit of history, what they are and why they are still such invaluable instruments today.

Seems that they could still have interest in workstation

Another thing that make me think that they have something in their sleeves, is this interview with Michele Paciulli

https://www.smstrumentimusicali.it/michele-paciulli-korg-m1/

Talking about the VOX he sais:

MP: “La promessa di una nuova tecnologia”, perché questo strumento cela una piattaforma inedita, che potrebbe portare la storia di Korg a vette interessanti.

MP: "The promise of a new technology", because this tool has an unprecedented platform, which could lead the history of Korg to interesting heights.



Sharp wrote:
Given that the KRONOS will be 9 years old when the next Namm show launches, I sure as heck hope they launch a new workstation.

What worries me though is that they may not have much interest in this market any more. Maybe the days of flagship workstations is coming to an end?

It’s also very hard to compete. Take the new Roland Fantom for example. The best deal right now on a 61 key version in Europe is €3,000. That’s a huge amount of money for a largely repackaged synth with better DAW integration. (what I mean by repackaged is that it still sound largely like my Integra 7). The DAW integration is not worth the 3K when you can buy a controller keyboard for a fraction of the prices that does a better job.

For 3K I could buy a new DAW, NI Komplete, Omnisphere, and a NI Controller Keyboard. Head to head, that setup would destroy a fantom in ability and sound. Integration is pretty tight too with that kind of software. Plus I can add whatever software I want to expand that, unlike a Fantom which is a closed synth.

I think this is the reality Hardware Manufactures need to face and they should have seen this coming for the last 20 years as the world very clearly moves towards software. Hardware manufactures need to stop trying to do it all. You cannot produce all the hardware and software while also expect to compete. They need to open their hardware to become a host for software synths and such.

IF KORG made such a move and their next workstation was mainly a VST host, they could even sell their own exsisting VST's for their own hardware. Makes sense to me.

Regards
Sharp.
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Kevin Nolan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharp wrote:
Given that the KRONOS will be 9 years old when the next Namm show launches, I sure as heck hope they launch a new workstation.

What worries me though is that they may not have much interest in this market any more. Maybe the days of flagship workstations is coming to an end?

It’s also very hard to compete. Take the new Roland Fantom for example. The best deal right now on a 61 key version in Europe is €3,000. That’s a huge amount of money for a largely repackaged synth with better DAW integration. (what I mean by repackaged is that it still sound largely like my Integra 7). The DAW integration is not worth the 3K when you can buy a controller keyboard for a fraction of the prices that does a better job.

For 3K I could buy a new DAW, NI Komplete, Omnisphere, and a NI Controller Keyboard. Head to head, that setup would destroy a fantom in ability and sound. Integration is pretty tight too with that kind of software. Plus I can add whatever software I want to expand that, unlike a Fantom which is a closed synth.

I think this is the reality Hardware Manufactures need to face and they should have seen this coming for the last 20 years as the world very clearly moves towards software. Hardware manufactures need to stop trying to do it all. You cannot produce all the hardware and software while also expect to compete. They need to open their hardware to become a host for software synths and such.

IF KORG made such a move and their next workstation was mainly a VST host, they could even sell their own exsisting VST's for their own hardware. Makes sense to me.

Regards
Sharp.


I don't agree. I have hundreds of plugins, including NI Komplete Ultimate, Omnisphere, Arturia V collection and all the rest of it. But I infinitely prefer sitting at my CS80, Juno106, SY77, OASYS and so on.

It isn't an either / or. Hardware has a completely valid place; and it isn't replaced by software and controllers.

The integrated thinking - both in the design phase; and when performing; of the top / iconic synthesizers and workstations is irreplaceable.

I'd go further - the 2-dimensional nature of plugins; and the utter lack of any kind of tactile control; renders them sterile - from a performance point of view.

So I see software music solutions as valid for media work where endless MIDI editing is what's needed to complete the job; or for non performance musicians such as DJs and EDM artists. Beyond that; there is a MASSIVE need for new and innovative hardware based electronic music technology; and there will always be.

Unfortunately, Korg don't seem to be able to recognise that fact - and why so much of their output is recycled or associated with that mini-key nonsense which is a hindrance to performing.

The Fantom is a success because it largely reimagines the workstation in a quite successful way where the outmoded bit - the need for a 16 track MIDI sequencer - has been jettisoned. Otherwise, it's a quite exciting prospect for realtime / performance based composition in a way that the likes of NI Komplete can never deliver; because Roland designed the hardware and software in an integrated way.

As for a replacement for Kronos - frankly, with likely less than 5% of the potential of the OASYS / Kronos exploited by the user base - and absolutely no sound sets released / developed by 3rd parties worth talking about - there is no need for a new workstation from Korg at this juncture - Kronos is overwhelmingly under exploited. If you're not producing world class music from the Kronos, it's not because of the Kronos. What it delivers is breath-taking - still. It's just that the vast majority of Kronos owners view it like the viewed an M1 - and they are wrong to do that. The manual isn't 1200 pages long for no reason. Multiple top-notch synth engines including a modular FM synthesizer; stunning acoustic and electric pianos, CX3 emulation, Karma, Wavesequencing, Vector Synthesis, Dynamic MIDI, AMS, extraordinary effects, near zero latency over hundreds of polyphonic voices, very high quality keybed and controllers, and on an on. You're telling me you've explored all of that? The truth is, you've gotten so used to it that you're taking it for granted.

But in any case, Korg aren't innovating in this way any more - they've _long_ since abandoned that. They may surprise us - after all Roland surprised everyone with Fantom - but I doubt it. They've gone the way of Tatsuya Takahashi - miniature nonsense with zero depth or quality. Flood the market with musical toys for the masses. They are _very_ far from the days of M1 toward OASYS development.

But in the big picture, there will always be a valid reason for music hardware innovation. What will synthesizers be like in 20 years, 50 years, a thousand years? If you think you can imagine what they will be like - then you're missing the point. We can't imagine such instruments. We shouldn't expect to imagine such instruments. But we should wholly expect that amazing, currently unimaginable hardware instruments should arise, forever more.

And if you think we're done with brand new and innovative synthesizer (or workstation) hardware - that's simply your lack of imagination, and not because 'we're done' on that front. Native Instruments are not replacing Moog. Propellerhead's first ad ever depicted synthesizers in a bin. They're currently ruing the day they ever projected such a vision for the future of music technology based solely on software. They'll be lucky to still exist in 5 years time with the music technology model they unilaterally adopted from the outset.

Behringer recently posted on Facebook that innovation starts with embracing your Customers' needs and wants. They could not be more wrong, and why all they are capable of is making clones of existing devices. Henry Ford said that if he gave his customers what they wanted, he'd have to give them a faster horse. Innovation starts from a very deep rooted place of curiosity, imagination, experience, insight, abstract thinking, exploration and risk. Korg used to be _very_ good at that; but they have lost their way completely - as have Yamaha. Both of those companies did not need to look to the user base. They battled down the hatches; drew from their very deep well of internal innovative talent; and delivered groundbreaking new visions for music technology that originated solely from them alone. M1, Z1, Kaoss, Electribe, OASYS, and many others. They don't even have the confidence to deliver what's supposed to come after OASYS, let alone the talent or originate it, or the ability to embrace the risk in order to try it. They're afraid to make mistakes. Welcome to the world of Tatsuya Takahashi. Everything Korg delivers is small, safe, built on insecurity and what the masses are calling for. They've lost their mojo. So it's unlikely they'll deliver the next Z1, Kaoss - or Workstation.

There is a new and astounding workstation to be released. Someone will do it. Whether that's Korg is highly unlikely - be we'll see.
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billysynth
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL
Come on Kevin...tell us what you really think of Tatsuya Takahashi lol

Vas
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billysynth wrote:
LOL
Come on Kevin...tell us what you really think of Tatsuya Takahashi lol

Vas


Very Happy


We'll just have to let the race for "the smallest possible device" to play out among Korg, Roland and Yamaha before we'll see a new workstation. Those three are on some weird path / competition with one another; with no end in sight. The rest of the world are conning themselves into thinking that mini, tiny, nano, pico devices are "cool" while we all privately think it's all a pile of junk!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
[



Unfortunately, Korg don't seem to be able to recognise that fact - and why so much of their output is recycled or associated with that mini-key nonsense which is a hindrance to performing.

The Fantom is a success because it largely reimagines the workstation in a quite successful way where the outmoded bit - the need for a 16 track MIDI sequencer - has been jettisoned. Otherwise, it's a quite exciting prospect for realtime / performance based composition in a way that the likes of NI Komplete can never deliver; because Roland designed the hardware and software in an integrated way.

As for a replacement for Kronos - frankly, with likely less than 5% of the potential of the OASYS / Kronos exploited by the user base - and absolutely no sound sets released / developed by 3rd parties worth talking about - there is no need for a new workstation from Korg at this juncture - Kronos is overwhelmingly under exploited. .


"Kronos is overwhelmingly under exploited."

I mostly agree. Sure , there are several dozen 3rd party sample libs for sale.

But most of the sound engine development has been slightly scratched at best. I have not seen/heard any high level [ equal or close to Korg/factory programming] sound engine program development.

AL-1, STR-1, Mod-7 just sit there- a gold mine of possibilities.

If anyone is an ace at program creation of these engines, don't take offense of my statement. Could be I just haven't found you.

Otherwise, Korg has done little with these 3 engines since 2011. I suppose Korg hasn't gone to the next level because there senior management has other priorities with the development staff.

You can see Korg's priorities based on the new products they introduce the past 3 years.

A fair guess is that the guys on the Korg BOD control the purse strings and dictate exactly what new product gets worked on/deveopled:

President Seiki Kato
Director Makoto Kato
Director Tomoko Kosaka(Itoh)
Director Sakae Yoshinaga
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:
It isn't an either / or. Hardware has a completely valid place; and it isn't replaced by software and controllers.

The integrated thinking - both in the design phase; and when performing; of the top / iconic synthesizers and workstations is irreplaceable.

I'd go further - the 2-dimensional nature of plugins; and the utter lack of any kind of tactile control; renders them sterile - from a performance point of view.

So I see software music solutions as valid for media work where endless MIDI editing is what's needed to complete the job; or for non performance musicians such as DJs and EDM artists. Beyond that; there is a MASSIVE need for new and innovative hardware based electronic music technology; and there will always be.

Fully agree, both have their place, their strengths and their weaknesses, and one is not a proper substitute for the other.
But they complement each other very well with their particular strengths.

Don't forget that when it comes to workstations KORG has a long-standing reputation, the aforementioned microcast clearly underlines that.
I find it hard if not impossible to believe that KORG would simply throw that reputation in the waste bin.
I think they ARE working on a new line of workstations, but perhaps 2020 is too soon for this new line to be presented.
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin Nolan wrote:

So I see software music solutions as valid for media work where endless MIDI editing is what's needed to complete the job; or for non performance musicians such as DJs and EDM artists. Beyond that; there is a MASSIVE need for new and innovative hardware based electronic music technology; and there will always be.
Unfortunately, Korg don't seem to be able to recognise that fact - and why so much of their output is recycled or associated with that mini-key nonsense which is a hindrance to performing.


While they still have MIDI ports, that seems largely academic to me. Bring along your favourite controller and go nuts. That's why companies like Studiologic do well.

Kevin Nolan wrote:

The Fantom is a success because it largely reimagines the workstation in a quite successful way where the outmoded bit - the need for a 16 track MIDI sequencer - has been jettisoned. Otherwise, it's a quite exciting prospect for realtime / performance based composition in a way that the likes of NI Komplete can never deliver; because Roland designed the hardware and software in an integrated way.


... which is why the MPC Live and X sell like hotcakes, and Kurzweil is still commanding premium prices and adding, not removing, sequencing capabilities with updates...

Seriously, outmoded? When we have more MIDI-capable widgets streaming out of factories every day? When we have people writing on arrangers, and then using those to drive things like sound modules? Please explain to me your new and exciting definition of "outmoded" because it's one with which I'm quite unfamiliar.

In fact, quite a few pieces of software that I use, when I bother with the computer, will do me the favour of exporting what I've done in MIDI so that I can take that file to a sequencer on USB stick or SD card.

I mean, sure, maybe you don't have a use for it, when you crack your knuckles and sit down at your performance-optimised Wersi or whatever it is, but seriously, speak for yourself, mate.

(And the Fantom does sequence multiple tracks just fine - it just does so in a limited, groovebox kind of way. Linear sequencing isn't a thing that it can do. It's basically a groovebox with a high end sound engine and keyboard attached, but if they admitted that they'd never command $4K for it.)

Kevin Nolan wrote:

Behringer recently posted on Facebook that innovation starts with embracing your Customers' needs and wants. They could not be more wrong, and why all they are capable of is making clones of existing devices. Henry Ford said that if he gave his customers what they wanted, he'd have to give them a faster horse.


Henry Ford embraced his customers' needs and wants: transport. Faster and more flexible than horses. After the Model T, they then proceeded to add developments and changes. Suggesting that embracing one's customer's needs and wants is somehow antithetical to innovation is to utterly miss the difference between giving them precisely what they ask for without any thought to different approaches on the one hand, and offering something that addresses their needs and their wants whether or not it's something for which they'd ever have asked on the other.

Behringer is doing something pretty similar, on a number of fronts. They're not just putting out a carbon copy of, for example, a Moog, but adding some function (patch points), adding a package format that's useful in a new(ish) context that didn't exist when Moog was first doing its thing, and generally pushing the idea forward and the cost down. Quite without arguing whether or not Behringer is a manifestation of a satanic will to corrupt and deprave the virtuous remnants of a sinful world in preparation for the deluge of flames, I can reasonably say that your characterisation of them is far wrong. Did they clone some old guitar pedals? Sure. Did they clone the Deepmind? Oh absolutely, it's a carbon copy of the Unobtainium UnicornHorn from '83 - oh, no, wait, it's actually a substantially innovative take on what to do with a dozen sawtooth oscillators, combined with digital control and effects technology.

I hope that KORG comes out with a new workstation, not because there's anything inherently wrong with the Kronos, nor because it is a living fossil from some valley that time forgot, but because they could do better.

They could put more voices, and more effects, in a lighter package that runs cooler.

They could up their DA/AD quality and bit rates.

They could embrace a keyboardless format and use USB for class-compliant controllers (latency counted in microseconds, even Rudess couldn't tell the difference).

They could have a large, clear screen to allow for direct sequencing by pianoroll - or, for that matter, tracker format. Anything that improves upon the direct composition interface that it has now.

They could have a fully virtual modular sound design environment, like the bastard lovechild of Buzztracker and VCVRack.

They could do things that don't even occur to me right now - and all of them would move the state of the art forward.

None of this has any bearing on whether or not they simultaneously manufacture an Electribe 2K with minikeys and a purple and green leopard print paintjob, and parade a truck loaded with them up and down your street, advertising it as the perfect thing for live performance and Bar Mitzvahs.

... I think I'd buy an Electribe 2K...
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole market is split you have a group of up & coming musicians that use computers and smaller devices and the rest of us geezers that want synthesizers the size of surfboards that can do everything under the sun. The latter is mostly a dying breed.

I'm at the point with hardware & software that there's no more real innovation coming. Everything just becomes more powerful and hopefully, easier to use. Roland certainly delivered on that with Fantom. Frankly I would happily accept a new Kronos with the same basic bits just easier to use and a quality hardware surface and keybed for a change. Not a prologue with Intel inside. A real upgrade this time.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koekepan wrote:
Kevin Nolan wrote:

The Fantom is a success because it largely reimagines the workstation in a quite successful way where the outmoded bit - the need for a 16 track MIDI sequencer - has been jettisoned. Otherwise, it's a quite exciting prospect for realtime / performance based composition in a way that the likes of NI Komplete can never deliver; because Roland designed the hardware and software in an integrated way.

... which is why the MPC Live and X sell like hotcakes, and Kurzweil is still commanding premium prices and adding, not removing, sequencing capabilities with updates...

Seriously, outmoded? When we have more MIDI-capable widgets streaming out of factories every day? When we have people writing on arrangers, and then using those to drive things like sound modules? Please explain to me your new and exciting definition of "outmoded" because it's one with which I'm quite unfamiliar
....
(And the Fantom does sequence multiple tracks just fine - it just does so in a limited, groovebox kind of way. Linear sequencing isn't a thing that it can do. It's basically a groovebox with a high end sound engine and keyboard attached, but if they admitted that they'd never command $4K
for it.)


True.
If an onboard sequencer is outmoded, then I guess I am outmoded as well as a lot of others, and who is the judge of what is outmoded and what not?
If I were to label the 16-track sequencer as outmoded, it would be because I'd prefer more than the old limit of 16 tracks in a hardware workstation.
Did not Yamaha ditch the onboard sequencer part with the Montage and did they not return to it with the recent update because 'people kept asking for it'?

Apparently this is the lesson the big three are now learning from Behringer (a manufacturer I have come to like and support), to take into consideration what their customer base wants instead of living in an ivory tower having no regard for the needs and wants of their customers.
Innovation without taking the needs and wants of the intended target group into consideration could easily turn into a financial disaster.

With the Fantom Roland may claim to reimagine the workstation, but I see that as marketing hyperbole using one of those trendy buzzwords floating around.
It has a lot going for it (as well as some missing features that I would like to see), but when it comes to the sequencer, 16 tracks with 8 patterns per track and a choice between either 3/4 or 4/4 per pattern...?
I certainly hope KORG will not go that way.

Koekepan wrote:
Kevin Nolan wrote:

Behringer recently posted on Facebook that innovation starts with embracing your Customers' needs and wants. They could not be more wrong, and why all they are capable of is making clones of existing devices. Henry Ford said that if he gave his customers what they wanted, he'd have to give them a faster horse.


Henry Ford embraced his customers' needs and wants: transport. Faster and more flexible than horses. After the Model T, they then proceeded to add developments and changes. Suggesting that embracing one's customer's needs and wants is somehow antithetical to innovation is to utterly miss the difference between giving them precisely what they ask for without any thought to different approaches on the one hand, and offering something that addresses their needs and their wants whether or not it's something for which they'd ever have asked on the other.

Behringer is doing something pretty similar, on a number of fronts. They're not just putting out a carbon copy of, for example, a Moog, but adding some function (patch points), adding a package format that's useful in a new(ish) context that didn't exist when Moog was first doing its thing, and generally pushing the idea forward and the cost down. Quite without arguing whether or not Behringer is a manifestation of a satanic will to corrupt and deprave the virtuous remnants of a sinful world in preparation for the deluge of flames, I can reasonably say that your characterisation of them is far wrong. Did they clone some old guitar pedals? Sure. Did they clone the Deepmind? Oh absolutely, it's a carbon copy of the Unobtainium UnicornHorn from '83 - oh, no, wait, it's actually a substantially innovative take on what to do with a dozen sawtooth oscillators, combined with digital control and effects technology.


Behringer takes old designs into new territory, and I for one would not describe this as 'mere cloning', Behringer goes a whole lot further.
The CEO interacts with customers in a very direct open way, suggestions for improvements are taken into consideration, and many of them are implemented, not exactly the work of the devil, is it?
Furthermore the company charges prices which open up a world of synthesizers to a whole new audience which cannot afford to plunk down several thousands of dollars/Euros.
Behringer listens, and that is one of the reasons why Behringer is quickly emerging as the no.1 brand.
You won't see minikeys on a Behringer product.
And have they not announced polyphonic aftertouch on future products?
I'd love to see the others follow that example.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
[q.

Don't forget that when it comes to workstations KORG has a long-standing reputation, the aforementioned microcast clearly underlines that.
I find it hard if not impossible to believe that KORG would simply throw that reputation in the waste bin.
I think they ARE working on a new line of workstations, but perhaps 2020 is too soon for this new line to be presented.


I am not sure about the microccast.

A reputation will not thrive in a vacuum. As we know, 2015, was 4 yrs ago. I point to that as the last substantial w/s move by Korg.

Its not difficult, in principle, for Korg mgmt to communicate general plans so WE can plan a little better.

For example, I don't consider a 10 day countdown to be in the ball park.

In most industries, repeat loyal customers are a valuable asset for a corporation.
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