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Kronos Programs changing drum patch mysteriously

 
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donovick



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:59 pm    Post subject: Kronos Programs changing drum patch mysteriously Reply with quote

Korg Kronos 2012 (original) running OS 3.1.3.

Boot up -- all is well. Using factory presets.

Internal bank A program 1 - play piano w/ drum track -- works fine.
Program 2, 3, 4, etc. fine.

Switch to Internal bank B program 1 - drum patch for drum track switches to seeming random patch (from outside the drum bank).

Go back to bank A -- program 1 -- drum patch from outside the drum bank.

Now banks A and B all programs playing non-drum bank patches for drum beats.

All other internal banks and all user banks correctly playing drum patches for the drum track.

Reboot -- bank A fine.

Bank B - problem.

Duplicated problem with no MIDI connections. Same problem.
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 608

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

This is likely caused by incorrect links for the assigned drum program in each faulty program. Check in Basic/Vector tab, then DrumTrack tab, then look in the upper right part of the screen.

Maybe you recently moved a few program banks or inadvertently used one of the remap functions or deleted some drum programs. You can fix that manually one by one if there are only a few faulty programs. Also, if you have a PC, you could quickly fix everything using the great TidyKronos freeware. Simply google it if needed.
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donovick



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you KK!

I know how to reassign the "wrong" sounds back to drums -- but the mystery is -- the Kronos boots up with drums in the Drum Track as expected, and then changes when Internal Bank B is accessed.

Also odd and interesting -- ALL the drums for Internal Banks A and B are reassigned incorrectly -- so yes I could fix manually, but as you know that is many faulty programs.

Further -- the cause seems to be upward of the program level -- but below the global level.

Maybe a bug indeed -- but I have reinstalled the OS and the PCG files both from Internal Disk and from 3.1.3 update on USB.

I was unaware fo TidyKronos -- thank you for that.

Still curious.

[quote="KK"]Hi there,

This is likely caused by incorrect links for the assigned drum program in each faulty program. Check in Basic/Vector tab, then DrumTrack tab, then look in the upper right part of the screen.


Last edited by donovick on Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 7964
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

donovick wrote:
Thank you KK!

n.


did you over write your original PCG file ?

wasn't there a time when all the assignments were correct ?
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donovick



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a time when the assignments were correct.

I let the Update 3.1.3 install automatically -- so I don't know if that overwrote the original PCG -- but now that you mention it -- it might have.

Still -- keep in mind -- the real problem is strange.

Internal Bank A -- all programs -- load correctly at start up.

The problem only instantiates after Internal Bank B programs are used -- and than that implementation seems to "corrupt" Bank A.

Hmm.

GregC wrote:
donovick wrote:
Thank you KK!

n.


did you over write your original PCG file ?

wasn't there a time when all the assignments were correct ?
Confused
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 608

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

donovick wrote:
Thank you KK!

I know how to reassign the "wrong" sounds back to drums -- but the mystery is -- the Kronos boots up with drums in the Drum Track as expected, and then changes when Internal Bank B is accessed.

OK, next test I would do follows below.

1) Create a new directory on your Kronos SSD or on a USB key that you know works well with your Kronos and do a Save all of your Kronos in that directory. ONLY if you feel at ease with this - doing Save Alls and loading PCGs, etc - then continue with 2) below, otherwise not.

2) Check if you have a factory PCG file on the Kronos SSD. I know where it is on a K2 like mine, but not sure on an original Kronos. Could be in the FACTORY directory or in "Extra Sound Data" if you have it, etc. If you have the DVDs which come with the Kronos, it is there somewhere as well and you could copy it on an USB key for the test.

3) Check if the strange drum assign bug still happens with the "new order" given with the factory PCG. If the bug is gone, your latest/current PCG file is corrupted. Otherwise, if the bug continues with the factory PCG as well, something went wrong when you updated the OS.

4) You can now restore your Kronos as it was before the test reloading your PCG saved in 1). If the test tends to prove your current/latest PCG is corrupted, you could create a new one free of bugs with all your recent mods using the TidyKronos and PCG Tools freeware.
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Kronos : Color LEDs mod12345612345Kronos : Change Quick Layer & Quick Split default programs (PM me for password)
Kronos : Custom velocity curves12345Kronos : Aftertouch hardware solution
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donovick



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for sharing your expertise, KK.

I also have a Kronos X where the directory structure is the same as you describe and same as the Kronos, so I am comfortable with your instructions.

I did load the SDD Factory PCGs.

The weird thing is that the unit reboots fine, and all of Internal Bank A works as expected, but calling up one program from Internal Bank A issues some command that reassigns all drum programs in the Drum Track for all programs in Internal Bank A and Internal Bank B.

All other Internal Banks and User Banks remain normal.

Reboot -- loads normal.

I am really more curious about what kind of Program level command could affect 2 and only 2 banks.

I'm going to did a little deeper and verify whether one specific program in Bank B is the culprit or any program in Bank B -- to isolate whether the odd behavior is issued at the Bank level or the Program level (I believe it is Bank, but will verify).



KK wrote:

OK, next test I would do follows below.

1) Create a new directory on your Kronos SSD or on a USB key that you know works well with your Kronos and do a Save all of your Kronos in that directory. ONLY if you feel at ease with this - doing Save Alls and loading PCGs, etc - then continue with 2) below, otherwise not.

2) Check if you have a factory PCG file on the Kronos SSD. I know where it is on a K2 like mine, but not sure on an original Kronos. Could be in the FACTORY directory or in "Extra Sound Data" if you have it, etc. If you have the DVDs which come with the Kronos, it is there somewhere as well and you could copy it on an USB key for the test.

3) Check if the strange drum assign bug still happens with the "new order" given with the factory PCG. If the bug is gone, your latest/current PCG file is corrupted. Otherwise, if the bug continues with the factory PCG as well, something went wrong when you updated the OS.

4) You can now restore your Kronos as it was before the test reloading your PCG saved in 1). If the test tends to prove your current/latest PCG is corrupted, you could create a new one free of bugs with all your recent mods using the TidyKronos and PCG Tools freeware.
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
Posts: 608

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, let's recap a bit... So you mean that even the factory PCG creates this strange behaviour ?

Is the problem only occurring on the Kronos which was OS updated ? Or maybe you updated both already with the 3.1.3 and both units continue to have this strange bug using their respective factory PCG ? Just trying to make sure I understand correctly.

Also, one thing I suddenly think of... Could be a simple second test :

Go in Global under KSC Auto-Load and make sure you have only one PRELOAD.KSC file checked there. Then uncheck everything else in the Auto-Load left column, then push the Do Auto-Load Now button (you don't have to restart the unit). Then check if problem is still there.

If there were more than one PRELOAD.KSC files there, switch to this other one afterwards and again uncheck everything else and Auto-Load again. See if this changes the behaviour.
_________________
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Kronos : Color LEDs mod12345612345Kronos : Change Quick Layer & Quick Split default programs (PM me for password)
Kronos : Custom velocity curves12345Kronos : Aftertouch hardware solution
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donovick



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(1) Even the factory PCG creates this strange behavior.

(2) Both Kronos and Kronos X were updated to 3.1.3. Only the Kronos is misbehaving. The Kronos X is normal.

I will perform the KSC Auto-Load (although I believe I did this two times; I wasn't looking for multiple .KSC).

If I recall correctly (I will verify) -- reboot and KSC Auto-Load begin with a fresh proper state of Kronos, all of Bank IA can be played and drums are normal.

Once any program of Bank IB is loaded, Drum Track "remaps" for all of Bank IA and IB, but not for any other bank, e.g. IC if fine, U1, U2, etc. all are fine.

I'll check out the PRELOAD.KSC and report back.

Thank you again for the good thoughts and leads.



KK wrote:
OK, let's recap a bit... So you mean that even the factory PCG creates this strange behaviour ?

Is the problem only occurring on the Kronos which was OS updated ? Or maybe you updated both already with the 3.1.3 and both units continue to have this strange bug using their respective factory PCG ? Just trying to make sure I understand correctly.

Also, one thing I suddenly think of... Could be a simple second test :

Go in Global under KSC Auto-Load and make sure you have only one PRELOAD.KSC file checked there. Then uncheck everything else in the Auto-Load left column, then push the Do Auto-Load Now button (you don't have to restart the unit). Then check if problem is still there.

If there were more than one PRELOAD.KSC files there, switch to this other one afterwards and again uncheck everything else and Auto-Load again. See if this changes the behaviour.
Smile
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the things about “Pattern RPPR” in sequencer mode is that it records midi data into patterns that can then be converted to user patterns for drum tracks.
The midi data that can go into an RPPR pattern is not just note data and i think even goes as far as SysEx.

So this makes me think it is possible the midi messages for program or bank change can be in the drum track pattern itself.
A user pattern most likely, and i am not sure how a factory drum track pattern could be corrupted but that may be possible also.

If the bank and program changes are happening only when the pattern is triggered, i would suggest looking into the pattern to see if it contains the stray program change message.
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donovick



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your help -- and all input has been useful.

I will share the "human error" solution for the good of the order.

After updating to 3.1.3 -- I receive an warning message:

The file was created on an older version of the KRONOS.

The order of the factory Programs is different between the KRONOS/KRONOX and the New KRONOS.

"Remap references to factory Programs to use the new order?"

Without thinking it through I concluded "new is good" and so clicked YES -- but this is what was causing the problem.

My Kronos was filling up to where bank IA and IB were duplicates of IC and ID so when the unit launched I presumed I was playing IA1, but it boots to IC1 (same Program).

When I switched back (what I thought was back) to IA1 the Drum Track was mismapped.

I was not paying attention to details (Bank readout on the LCD).

Again thank you all for your insight. I hope I can return the favor.

Hopefully someone else will read this and benefit (or hopefully no one will ever do this again.)



19naia wrote:
One of the things about “Pattern RPPR” in sequencer mode is that it records midi data into patterns that can then be converted to user patterns for drum tracks.
The midi data that can go into an RPPR pattern is not just note data and i think even goes as far as SysEx.

So this makes me think it is possible the midi messages for program or bank change can be in the drum track pattern itself.
A user pattern most likely, and i am not sure how a factory drum track pattern could be corrupted but that may be possible also.

If the bank and program changes are happening only when the pattern is triggered, i would suggest looking into the pattern to see if it contains the stray program change message.
Confused
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
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Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many Kronos owners do a simple backup.

A new PCG file save. Not an over write. The files have dates. So its easy to see
whichPCG file to re-load.
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Achieve your musical dreams Smile
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donovick



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea - I will do it. Thank you, Greg.


GregC wrote:
Many Kronos owners do a simple backup.

A new PCG file save. Not an over write. The files have dates. So its easy to see
whichPCG file to re-load.
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