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Will the New Fantom Motivate Korg ?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

psionic311 wrote:
[q
Expensive, and still a bit heavy and extra wide.
These are rompler hardware workstations
Their primary market are gigging musicians
g


I think thats premature. Roland made a video effort to show strength in the studio,

Did you notice the screen layout and all the details and the sequencer options ?

Gigging musicians are not going to have the time, to dial around/tweak during a performance.

I say both are well served. Gigging and home studio types.

Abbey Road studio also said how strong Fantom is.

Its early, and it will take some time to grasp Fantom.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Conway wrote:
It samples, but as stated, I don't think it multisamples.

As for Kronos, I'll take the FM sound engine, audio recording, multisampling, and all the rest. Nothing is replacing it, but this Fantom would be a great addition. As much as the MODX appealed to me, this new Fantom supercedes it. Even at the price difference.

What this should show Korg is that a sequencer is one of the most important parts of a workstation. The Sequencer on the new Fantom is amazing!!!


The Kronos still rules the roost in a lot of departments.

But the new Fantom workstation flows are dope
Real time, step, and grid... all with visual feedback
Variations / multiple takes... like Live / Pro Tools / Logic
Grid system for live cueing ... like Push / Launchpad

Roland nailed the sequencer

Analog filter is great too
And they stepped up all the workstation connections

All this really makes me think, is Korg still in the game?
Manufacturers everywhere have been dropping new bombs

NAMM 2020 for next-gen Kronos?
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afr
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After listening few demos I have to admit that, sonically speacking is quite impressive, I like very much and I like that they kept and expanded the use of the on board sequencer.

I woul like to add something important to my Kronos and Montage

For this year I don't think that I will buy any new keyboard, but I want to wait the WinterNAMM and check if Korg is ready to present the Kronos replacement, then I will make the choice
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SKung
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Fantom definitely is a platform from the year 2019. So much work making things work without having to go through menus and submenus.

But the user manual tells about 'sampling'. No word about 'multisamples' or even wave sequences or streaming.

This should keep many Kronos users from switching to the Fantom.

Making sounds with VSTs and import multisamples as user instruments? Not anymore.

Make backing tracks on your DAW and playback 5GB bounced audio on the sequencer? Nope.


Roland's new platform and intriguing and state-of-the-art of 2019, but not for my purposes. Even if the Kronos platform is from 2011, or to be rude: the Oasys platform from 2005.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SKung wrote:
The

But the user manual tells about 'sampling'. No word about 'multisamples' or even wave sequences or streaming.

This should keep many Kronos users from switching to the Fantom.

Making sounds with VSTs and import multisamples as user instruments? Not anymore.

Make backing tracks on your DAW and playback 5GB bounced audio on the sequencer? Nope.

Roland's new platform and intriguing and state-of-the-art of 2019, but not for my purposes. Even if the Kronos platform is from 2011, or to be rude: the Oasys platform from 2005.


Don't forget Kronos went thru a few major OS revisions that made it more successful.

I would expect similar from Roland. It would be business foolish to cripple
Fantom.

I am keeping an open mind.

I read somewhere in spec that there is 5 GB to support processing.
There are 3 USB ports.

There is more to the story. Its a thick book not a quick youTube video.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
psionic311 wrote:
Expensive, and still a bit heavy and extra wide.
These are rompler hardware workstations
Their primary market are gigging musicians

I think thats premature. Roland made a video effort to show strength in the studio.

Did you notice the screen layout and all the details and the sequencer options ?

I say both are well served. Gigging and home studio types.


Yes, the workflow on the Fantom workstation looks really intuitive and fast.
You should be really productive on these things.

I was more addressing the likeliest market for hardware workstations.
They're expensive and big, mostly rompler stuff.
That to me = older audience.

Younger electronic musicians have less money.

Less money also means less space (desktop studios)
Younger musos are less about romplers, more about EDM synths and beats.
They probably see the keyboard as just a MIDI controller input device.
Younger musos are most likely to just use a DAW, small keys, and pads.
A lot of their gear fits in a backpack.

Modern musicians (young, old, in-between) know DAWs are powerful.
Why use dedicated hardware when you can go cheaper, better ITB?

The Fantom workstation will be great for a mature musician.
One who can afford the time and money, and the space.

I guess it's best not aimed at working cover musicians anyway.
After all, they play covers much more than they write originals.
They need performance synths more than hardware workstations.
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rod_proteus



Joined: 11 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

afr wrote:
After listening few demos I have to admit that, sonically speacking is quite impressive, I like very much and I like that they kept and expanded the use of the on board sequencer.

I woul like to add something important to my Kronos and Montage

For this year I don't think that I will buy any new keyboard, but I want to wait the WinterNAMM and check if Korg is ready to present the Kronos replacement, then I will make the choice


Hello guys...
Where are those demos ?... I can´t find them in the Roland web page..
By the way, does anybody know the "street price" for the Fantom ?

Thanks... Smile
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psionic311 wrote:
GregC wrote:
psionic311 wrote:
Expensive, and still a bit heavy and extra wide.
These are rompler hardware workstations
Their primary market are gigging musicians

I think thats premature. Roland made a video effort to show strength in the studio.

Did you notice the screen layout and all the details and the sequencer options ?

I say both are well served. Gigging and home studio types.


Yes, the workflow on the Fantom workstation looks really intuitive and fast.
You should be really productive on these things.

I was more addressing the likeliest market for hardware workstations.
They're expensive and big, mostly rompler stuff.
That to me = older audience.

Younger electronic musicians have less money.

Less money also means less space (desktop studios)
Younger musos are less about romplers, more about EDM synths and beats.
They probably see the keyboard as just a MIDI controller input device.
Younger musos are most likely to just use a DAW, small keys, and pads.
A lot of their gear fits in a backpack.

The Fantom workstation will be great for a mature musician.
One who can afford the time and money, and the space.

I guess it's best not aimed at working cover musicians anyway.
After all, they play covers much more than they write originals.
They need performance synths more than hardware workstations.


This is a good topic of discussion- who buys the $3500- $3999 w/s keyboard ?

Given Roland and Korg have been around for some decades, I think they are skilled at whats what in the very broad music landscape marketplace, is it ready and is their room for another premium price keyboard, and estimating market demand.

In other words, I think .. what are the right questions ? Before we conclude
what the answers might be. And we can determine strengths of a Roland.

Roland has the correct list of questions, IMO. They also know their strengths.
For example, Roland has a strong built in following.

I prefer a top down discussion on the key question [ who buys this stuff].
We know the bottoms up- but there is more to it if you are a Roland . Or a Korg.
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psionic311
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holden Sandman wrote:

$6299 AUD for the Fantom 8
$5849 AUD for the Fantom 7
$4499 AUD for the Jupiter Xm

I am convinced that Roland sit in a room oblivious to what is going on in the rest of the world.

I'm in the market to buy a great multitimbral workhorse synth but these won't even be taken into consideration.

I cannot believe the total disconnect between Roland and the market.


As for music demos:

Check Youtube for all things music
-- gear demos, original songs, theory and tutorials, music videos

Scott Tibbs has a 30 minute in-depth video of the Fantom workstation.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked New Fantom has piano roll editing too......

Korg is going to have to step up or lose.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rod_proteus wrote:
[

Hello guys...
Where are those demos ?... I can´t find them in the Roland web page..
By the way, does anybody know the "street price" for the Fantom ?

Thanks... Smile


It is early and I don't expect dealers to start pushing price cuts.

If you are serious, they might whisper something to you.

IOW, they are going to stick to MSRP, publicly and in ads.

There is a business reason why dealers are careful like this. Can you guess why ?
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laandodeman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the first time since Oasys I am tempted to check it out..... Love the Roland pianosound, like the on board pads for sample triggering and - wow - an analogue filter!

Only thing really keeping me back is the lack of multisampling.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laandodeman wrote:
For the first time since Oasys I am tempted to check it out..... Love the Roland pianosound, like the on board pads for sample triggering and - wow - an analogue filter!

Only thing really keeping me back is the lack of multisampling.


Stay tuned. I think Roland is going to address this.

Same thing happened with the Fantom XR rack, several years ago
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theshinenz
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]

This is a good topic of discussion- who buys the $3500- $3999 w/s keyboard ?

[/quote]

ME!!!

I'm definately getting one, been waiting for years for Roland to do this...... time for others to play catch up now.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theshinenz wrote:


This is a good topic of discussion- who buys the $3500- $3999 w/s keyboard ?

[/quote]

ME!!!

I'm definately getting one, been waiting for years for Roland to do this...... time for others to play catch up now.[/quote]

at other sites, I posted the following:

There are numerous folks that will spend $3999 on the Fantom.

The first month, and likely later, the Fantom will sell like cupcakes in the morning.

For $3999. or whatever the price is of the other key size Fantom.

The early buyers have no problem putting the purchase on a credit card.
Or pay cash.

Kronos was the same way. 6 month Preorders. Rapid sales. I think this went on for
most of 2011.

Roland knows the Fantom will sell quickly. The dealers know this.

At some point, the rush hour will lessen. It might be some time.
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