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Food for Thought
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danmusician
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:53 pm    Post subject: Food for Thought Reply with quote

As we all consider what features we'd like to see added to the Kronos or long for a 64 bit rewrite of the Editor, consider the following:

After being on the market for 7 years, Korg has already sold more Kronos keyboards than they will sell in the future. Anything that Korg would add to the Kronos at this point is unlikely to drive a significant number of new sales from people who wouldn’t have purchased it anyway.

I don’t know how long it will remain on the market, but as I’ve said in other posts, I suspect there will not be another high-powered workstation. I hope to be wrong. (When Apple came out with the first iPod, I thought it was then end of the company!)

In the meantime, Korg support for this product has been unprecedented in my mind. As an original owner from Aug, 2011, I’ve never owned an electronic product that has enjoyed this level of support for this long. Thanks, Korg!
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One point has to be considered : the motherboard used in the last version - Asrock IMB-140D - cannot be found anymore.
So, for sure, one day or another, Korg will have to : either implant a new hardware, or abandon this instrument.

If Korg wanted to extend the Kronos' life an option could be producing Kronos 3 with new hardware (and adapted firmware) and make this hardware available as a Kit Upgrade, to be sold and available for old customers and former Kronos versions.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liviou2004 wrote:
One point has to be considered : the motherboard used in the last version - Asrock IMB-140D - cannot be found anymore.
.


if this is 100 % accurate, this is a huge issue. Korg is ' suppose ' to provide available parts for some years after the EOL of a keyboard product

I have read this some time ago and will see if I can find the link.
Its called a Service Agreement. For products.

Or, is there an adequate replacement for Asrock IMB-140D ?

Anyway, if only ' 3rd parties ' or speculators are offering a scarce component one eBay etc, they are going to gouge the heck out of Kronos buyers.
Classic supply and demand capitalism and we should not rely on that
if Korg has promised reasonable part replacement after product EOL.

No panic, here. I think we deserve the facts.
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SKung
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kronos is a high-versatile and complex instrument that can keep you busy for years.

When I first heard about it I knew that I want one and that I would keep it for a very long time with all these abilities. One thing that kept me from buying was the lack of streaming user samples. And right after the update came out that fixed this I ran to my store right away.

Being able to re-use samples from my PA2X and even some from other older Korg instruments was a great feature that I didn't find elsewhere.

And big kudos to Korg for keeping the 1st-generation Kronos up do date with the newer models.


Replacing my Kronos and buy a "Kronos 3"? If the new model had 16 digital stereo output channels I would visit my music store tomorrow morning.
Would make mixing and recording much easier. Having 16 fx slots for 16 channels is quite a limitation since many programs use more than one slot.
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
Liviou2004 wrote:
One point has to be considered : the motherboard used in the last version - Asrock IMB-140D - cannot be found anymore.
.


if this is 100 % accurate, this is a huge issue. Korg is ' suppose ' to provide available parts for some years after the EOL of a keyboard product

I have read this some time ago and will see if I can find the link.
Its called a Service Agreement. For products.

Or, is there an adequate replacement for Asrock IMB-140D ?

Anyway, if only ' 3rd parties ' or speculators are offering a scarce component one eBay etc, they are going to gouge the heck out of Kronos buyers.
Classic supply and demand capitalism and we should not rely on that
if Korg has promised reasonable part replacement after product EOL.

No panic, here. I think we deserve the facts.


Well, for several months I've been looking for a spare motherboard in case of big crash. I was unable to find one, whereever I looked (Ebay europe, US, and so on, and many other websites). This is a fact. For the rest, I just did speculations !

But, you're right : we can suppose Korg have a big stock for repair, I hope so !!
We can suppose Korg has an agreement with a manufacturer, I hope so !
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liviou2004 wrote:
[qu

No panic, here. I think we deserve the facts.


Well, for several months I've been looking for a spare motherboard in case of big crash. I was unable to find one, whereever I looked (Ebay europe, US, and so on, and many other websites). This is a fact. For the rest, I just did speculations !

But, you're right : we can suppose Korg have a big stock for repair, I hope so !!
We can suppose Korg has an agreement with a manufacturer, I hope so ![/quote]

I think the answer is in the large group of Auth Korg Service Centers.

Can they get their hands on this mobo in a reasonable time window.

Yeah, Korg " should " have a healthy supply. Like you say, the " 3rd party resale market " is coming up -0-.

Lets see if Kronos owners start running into delays getting MoBos replaced.
It " should not " be an issue.
Not riling anything of anyone. Just keep our eyes open. Stay informed, etc.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remind everyone that US-China trade war is having already impact on spare parts. This has potential to effect not just Korg users. I know the fellow that came empty handed when service could not fix his Fujitsu laptop due to lack of spare parts.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:
I remind everyone that US-China trade war is having already impact on spare parts. This has potential to effect not just Korg users. I know the fellow that came empty handed when service could not fix his Fujitsu laptop due to lack of spare parts.


but that whole mess is recent.

A supply of MoBos ' should ' have been locked down years ago.

I am not referring to the 3rd party resellers on eBay that hawk stuff for $$$$$$.
Thats not the issue. They only fill little supply gaps at best.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
but that whole mess is recent.
.


Tarrifs are not resent.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3368-manufacturers-on-tariff-impact-to-pc-prices

In 3-5 yrs there will be massive problems for spare parts for sure, not just prices but stock.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:
GregC wrote:
but that whole mess is recent.
.


Tarrifs are not resent.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3368-manufacturers-on-tariff-impact-to-pc-prices

In 3-5 yrs there will be massive problems for spare parts for sure, not just prices but stock.


I won't debate what has been going on for 40 years.
I wouldn't be up to speed on certain components
and % tariffs over the years.

My context is the current mess.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:

I won't debate what has been going on for 40 years.
I wouldn't be up to speed on certain components
and % tariffs over the years.

My context is the current mess.


I am closing this debate.
I only add that the current mess started when China announced "China's Belt and Road Initiative". And now it simply reaches the peak. I assume the next step is a war if current mess will not make China kneel.
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kronoSphere
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in 1969, someone had the great idea of sending men to the moon and since: nothing. And yet, since 1969, the technology has improved considerably, but alas, the world is undone in its own way ... I think Korg could very well make a real successor to the Kronos, but Korg does not even want, or simply he may not have anymore the taste or desire for that. Or the means.
Before was before.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kronoSphere wrote:
.. I think Korg could very well make a real successor to the Kronos, but Korg does not even want, or simply he may not have anymore the taste or desire for that. Or the means.
Before was before.


They 'could' and they should.

I point this out when the speculation gets going; Korg has changed senior management since Kronos 2011.

The new product approach in the past 3 years has been a reflection of this IMO.

Thus, its a wild card if Korg people at the top will continue the old school flagship in 2020 or 2021.

Thats my best speculation.
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danmusician
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kronoSphere wrote:
I think Korg could very well make a real successor to the Kronos


They absolutely can make anything they want. Prototypes may even exist for a Kronos successor. The question isn't ability to create, or even desire. It comes down to marketplace. We think as artists. Here's what I could do if I had this tool or that tool. Korg has to think as a business. How many units can be sold at what price point with what margin?

I had the opportunity to peak behind the curtain a little bit at Ensoniq back in the day. I heard stories of instruments in development that never made it to market for reasons that had nothing to do capability or belief in the product.

As I said in the OP, the music instrument industry changed after the 2008 crash. It's never returned to what it once was. It's not just financial. It's a bit like TV back in the day. In the 70s and 80s, there were three networks. Hit shows had 20-30,000 viewers. Now a show is a hit if it gets 10,000 viewers because there are so many options.

There are so many options today that compete with the workstation concept. And let's face it, it's a simpler learning curve to get up an running a software DAW than the Kronos. I gigged for a while with a laptop and a controller. I gladly came back to the workstation because I enjoy the one-box-does-all approach. But I think I am part of a shrinking market.
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19naia
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaX simple did a jump from 3 to 4.
Kross and Krome did the same thing.
Kronos also with X, 2, Gold, LS and the latest razzle-dazzle color enhancements.

Everything has just been the same platform with a few additions every time around.

Triton series was like that, with LE, Extreme and whatever else over the years.
How long did Triton series run before the big leap to M3 and then to OASYS/Kronos?

Has any other model run as long as Kronos series?

Korg has really been putting out a lot when you consider all their products.
You have Kronos, Krome and Kross. Minilogue and Prologue.
The Stage piano.
The PaX arrangers.
The cheap portable beginner keyboard series.
Then you have the drum machine, tuners and other types of hardware and accessories.
Even a good list of virtual instrument apps.

Korg isn’t as big a company empire as Yamaha , but is keeping up with Yamaha in every electronic synth style category.
Also Keeping up with Roland.

Yamaha and Roland are also not moving ahead in next generation workstations to top Kronos or Montage.
So the stalemate is not just at Korg, or else we would not be here speculating about it if we could just go to Roland or Yamaha for the next generation gear to move Kronos behind the times.

So i think we still have the possibilities as open as ever and the hardware on course to evolve just like it always has.
It is just a matter of any of the big name synth companies taking the leap ahead. One makes a move and the others work to keep up.

I am more curious about how those companies(Korg included) find out when each other’s products are taking the next generation leap?
Because they always seem to be right there keeping up with each other on new releases of next generation.
Maybe Montage was a bit delayed after Roland and Kronos moved ahead.
And Roland never really made a big effort to match Kronos. Not with the FA.
FA did a good job keeping Roland relevant in the top workstation market, but definitely not an attempt to match or exceed Kronos.

I remember seeng Oasys in magazines before it came out.
And then seeing Kronos in Magazines before it came out.

Of course that was before the days of iPhone and iPad, when internet was still not easily in the palm of everyone’s hands.
So there was not so much likelihood of getting the news to everyone, via the internet.

I think Korg would give a DAW a try before giving up on Workstations.
Something like Logic that has its proprietary instruments included and other unique suites like Mainstage.
But korg has not done that. Keyboard makers serve even the DAW people who would never buy a rig like Kronos.
So even if everything goes to DAW’s, Keyboard makers will still be relevant where DAW’s need Keyboards connected to make the virtual instruments useful.

Keyboard-making will remain relevant and cannot be replaced by Virtual instruments that need physical Keyboards anyway.
So keyboard makers will always try innovations of keyboards to cater to DAW users, Stage performers, compact and portable one-man-band rigs, and the unique stuff like analog synths with sound textures that have been hard to beat since over 50 years ago.

Quality control is the only thing i am wondering about. And it could sink a chance for a next generation replacement to Kronos.
I know some companies bigger than Korg and with huge government subsidies behind them, have floundered and done so because of quality control.
Their worthy performing and spec’d out vehicles, but no reliability over time.
More than one America auto company has had that problem and several European car companies that tried the USA market, also the same problem.
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