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Kronos 64-bit software for Mac
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Kaneda



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:28 pm    Post subject: Kronos 64-bit software for Mac Reply with quote

Next September, Mac OS Catalina will be released. Exciting news for Mac users, but perhaps less for people who depend on certain software that they’ve been using for years.

The next Mac OS release will no longer support any 32 bit application whatsoever, so everything that hasn’t already received the 64-bit treatment won’t work.
For instance, the plug-in editor for Mac is 32-bit only. This means that people will either have to get a new keyboard or not upgrade to the Mac OS version...

Can anyone tell me if all Korg software is 64-bit or if there is a 64-bit version of all drivers and software in the works ?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Kronos 64-bit software for Mac Reply with quote

Kaneda wrote:
Next September, Mac OS Catalina will be released. Exciting news for Mac users, but perhaps less for people who depend on certain software that they’ve been using for years.

The next Mac OS release will no longer support any 32 bit application whatsoever, so everything that hasn’t already received the 64-bit treatment won’t work.
For instance, the plug-in editor for Mac is 32-bit only. This means that people will either have to get a new keyboard or not upgrade to the Mac OS version...

Can anyone tell me if all Korg software is 64-bit or if there is a 64-bit version of all drivers and software in the works ?


I don't believe if the software is 64.
With that assumption, I doubt Korg will figure out 64 bit for Kronos. Some folks will wish for it but my tea leaves show that the company has other product priorities.

My Kronos is 500 times more important than a 64 bit OSX. I would not upgrade. I have no reason to at this point.

It is good to post about this and plan, as there will be some confusion.
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Kaneda



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have read on Korg's site that they are considering making 64-bit versions of software that has already been released.
New and upcoming software will have 64-bit support.

As for the existing stuff... They are considering it. Basically, that means we're stuffed.
Not upgrading Mac OS is a no go for me, I'm not just using it for leisure...
This sucks. Big time !

What's more, most people won't even know about this. They will just upgrade their OS, not realizing that their beloved keyboard might no longer work with their DAW, or that the software they've been using will be obsolete...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaneda wrote:
H

As for the existing stuff... They are considering it. Basically, that means we're stuffed.
Not upgrading Mac OS is a no go for me, I'm not just using it for leisure...
This sucks. Big time !

What's more, most people won't even know about this. They will just upgrade their OS, not realizing that their beloved keyboard might no longer work with their DAW, or that the software they've been using will be obsolete...


Good post. " Considering " by a corporation is polite speak for " whenever "
IOW, like I would say, don't anyone hold their breath.

There is plenty of data out there for a corporation to commit to doing it. Corporations plan. Thus, they have to commit $$$ and resources to it.

So if Korg or any corporation said " we are committing resources to 64 " but we can't give you any date, that would be reasonable for me.

But that was not said. Therefore , play wait/see until Sept then plan without it.
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Devnor
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaneda wrote:
What's more, most people won't even know about this. They will just upgrade their OS, not realizing that their beloved keyboard might no longer work with their DAW, or that the software they've been using will be obsolete...


No, everyone already knows the risks - its a question of if they can resist a shiny new OS. I can't find any musical reason to update to Catalina. Mojave works with LPX and all my software. I do not use Kronos editor.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaneda wrote:
... or that the software they've been using will be obsolete...


It was shipped obsolete !

Apple did signal in 2007 that Carbon API is the past, and in 2012 officially was deprecated.

Korg did ignore it.

But what’s the point to invest in obsolete hardware, it’s better to re-pack it and sell it as a RED to make it “HOT”.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

It's important to note that when Apple releases 10.15 Catalina, any 32-bit Mac applications will no longer be able to be run. Apple OS's have been 64-bit for awhile now, but they had the capability to seamlessly run 32-bit older Mac applications. That is no longer going to be the case.

This has the potential to be highly disruptive for many people, similar to when Apple removed Rosetta going from 10.6 Snow Leopard to 10.7 Lion, and all PowerPC apps no longer would work. It will come as a shock to many people who just blindly update to the latest newest thing without thinking about it.

While the big software developers have, of course, been working on this transition, many smaller developers have not, and cannot for various reasons rewrite their software to be brand new 64-bit applications. You may not even know until you upgrade to Catalina which of your previous always-used applications will no longer work or be supported.

This is, sadly, the case for my own Mac software applications (KARMA Kronos and others). My software began development nearly 18 years ago as a 32-bit Carbon-based application.

Now, it has been known for years that this was coming, but I have looked into this and come to the conclusion that there is no conceivable way that I can rewrite the Mac version software (it would have to literally be done from scratch and would take me years - and frankly the market for it is not such to justify the expenditure of all that time by one person.). And so, 10.14 Mojave is literally the end of the line for my current Mac software. (The Windows versions do not have this problem.)

Fortunately, there is a simple solution for people who want to be able to run older software and still move to 10.15 Catalina: VMWare Fusion (or Parallels, although I personally like Fusion better).

VMWare Fusion allows you to create VMs (virtual machines) of earlier Mac OS versions and run them inside a window on your Mac. It's especially easy to create VMs of the more recent Mac OS's, since the license does not prohibit it.

So, for example, you can create a VM of Mac OS X 10.13 High Sierra or 10.14 Mojave (which will be able to run your older 32-bit Mac apps), and run it inside of 10.15 Catalina.

In any case, beware of the change to Catalina! The wisest advice would be to wait a few months after its release to see whether a bunch of s**t hits the fan or not. There's no logical reason anyone has to update to Apple's latest release immediately, other than the fact that Apple tries their best to make you feel like you cannot live without whatever incremental improvements they've made. Wink
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

StephenKay wrote:
... but I have looked into this and come to the conclusion that there is no conceivable way that I can rewrite the Mac version software (it would have to literally be done from scratch and would take me years - and frankly the market for it is not such to justify the expenditure of all that time by one person.) ...


It is quite sad, you just put another nail in Kronos coffin,
but I do understand your decision.
My guess is that due to licensing rights and copyright, Korg will never revive your KARMA Software for Mac users.

StephenKay wrote:
... The wisest advice would be to wait a few months after its release to see whether a bunch of s**t hits the fan or not. There's no logical reason anyone has to update to Apple's latest release immediately ...


Some will have no choice.

I refer to those who have been waiting for a new Mac Pro 2019 for a long time.

There are as well die-hard Logic Pro users who will upgrade to Catalina when the update to Logic Pro (certainly) follows.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:
StephenKay wrote:
... The wisest advice would be to wait a few months after its release to see whether a bunch of s**t hits the fan or not. There's no logical reason anyone has to update to Apple's latest release immediately ...


Some will have no choice.

I refer to those who have been waiting for a new Mac Pro 2019 for a long time.


I do not think that there is anything that prevents someone from buying a new Mac Pro and then installing Mojave on it, if they have 32-bit apps they still want to run. But VMWare Fusion can be the way to go then...
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:
[
It is quite sad, you just put another nail in Kronos coffin,
but I do understand your decision.
My guess is that due to licensing rights and copyright, Korg will never revive your KARMA Software for Mac users.

.


I don't believe there are any nails to play with. Since 2011.

Non wishful thinker here.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

StephenKay wrote:
I do not think that there is anything that prevents someone from buying a new Mac Pro and then installing Mojave on it, if they have 32-bit apps they still want to run.


Yes, you could, but personally I would never do that.
Catalina definitely will have some OS components that are destined to Mac Pro 2019 only, so having Mojave we might miss the crucial components, and there is that T2 chip tightly integrated with OS Services.

StephenKay wrote:
... But VMWare Fusion can be the way to go then...


True, but it will never be the same as running natively.
If I have to use your software I would prefer to make a switch to Windows version. Most of Mac Pro users have Windows OS on seperate drive installed anyway.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:15 am    Post subject: Re: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:
StephenKay wrote:
... But VMWare Fusion can be the way to go then...


True, but it will never be the same as running natively.
If I have to use your software I would prefer to make a switch to Windows version. Most of Mac Pro users have Windows OS on seperate drive installed anyway.

Why would you want to boot up into a separate Windows OS, when you can run a separate Mac OS right inside Catalina without rebooting?
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

GregC wrote:

I don't believe there are any nails to play with. Since 2011.

Non wishful thinker here.


Each of us have different views, from a different angle, and uses kronos differently.
I strongly believe that accompanied software should be up to date.
And become obsolete only when a synth is discontinued.

Unfortunately with Kronos ( I had no idea when I purchased mine, I wasn’t even a member of this forum) that all Korg Kronos software were outsourced and obsolete.

I feel I’ve been cheated, but I still carry hopes that Korg will update Kronos Editor and Kontrol Editor.
It’s Korg responsibility.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:52 am    Post subject: Re: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

StephenKay wrote:

Why would you want to boot up into a separate Windows OS, when you can run a separate Mac OS right inside Catalina without rebooting?


Personnal preference.

I guess my preference is driven by desire of stability, ease of troubleshooting, and a fact I never like VM. Long long ago I have used it quite a lot, and it was most frustrating experience, especially if MIDI hardware is involved. Of course I could be wrong here, nowadays VM software has changed a lot.

And I add that my Mojave OS is highly customised ( 1/4 of Apple crappware removed/disabled permanently ) for Audio use only, so VM services etc are very undesirable !

It's not a big deal for me.
When I develop my own GEs I am in Windows.
When I do composing I am in macOS.
In most cases, my composing does not include KARMA anyway. I only enjoy it when I entertain friends or family on weekends.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Beware Catalina! Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:
GregC wrote:

I don't believe there are any nails to play with. Since 2011.

Non wishful thinker here.


I strongly believe that accompanied software should be up to date.
And become obsolete only when a synth is discontinued.

Unfortunately with Kronos ( I had no idea when I purchased mine, I wasn’t even a member of this forum) that all Korg Kronos software were outsourced and obsolete.

I feel I’ve been cheated, but I still carry hopes that Korg will update Kronos Editor and Kontrol Editor.
It’s Korg responsibility.


I agree. Those are valid points. And I have several criticisms of how Korg has ' not used ' more resources on Kronos. Of course, they never promised much of what we already see. And we can write to their Presdient/CEO about a basic wish list, but these go ignored. The result is the answer.

It is frustrating to see how Korg is not pursuing the potential and some of the basics [ software per your post]. I understand why Kronos is not much a priority for further development.

This is why I go elsewhere to find my requirements.
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