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Serious problem with PA 1000
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duby2
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Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 1377
Location: USA Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:50 am    Post subject: os Reply with quote

BR
where in the USA are you located. I am in Pennsylvania,
how long ago did you asked Korg for information about resetting your PA 1000..
If you are still under warranty there should be no trouble if you have to take it back and straighten it all out..
I do not know if they PA 1000 factory reset files work, I have not done that yet I am still trying to learn...

I think if it doesn't work I have nothing to lose but to try it if it installs OS 1 then from there I could upgrade to OS 1.3 or some people say OS 1.2 is better I don't know..
As of now I am on OS 1.3

You say the two files are exactly the same they might've posted it twice I'm not sure,, but as I said before if you're still under warranty you could try anything and just take it back...
I am not under warranty anymore that's why trying to learn..
Thanks again
BR

Keep us all informed, you are helping all of us.
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:24 pm    Post subject: Pa1000-Reset-Factory Reply with quote

duby2 wrote:
.. the two files are exactly the same ...


The two parts of reset-Files download from forum of "Trakya Muzik" are not the same. Because of its large size "Pa1000 Factory Reset v1.0.1" (Origin: Unix, Complete Package Z112A, that is Product-ID for Pa1000) this file is split into two parts also allowing downloading for slow connections. As I could see similar splitting also was done by KORG with Pa4x_Mus_OS_and_Resources_v200 into six different parts.

Both files of Pa1000 (pa1000_std_v101_factory_reset.pkg.001 ... 002) together are a common package, the data of which are interrupted in the first part (data: /bkp_pcm/PCM00.BIN.flac) and continue to be available in the next part. Size of part1 is DIFFERENT of part 2.

It seems that package after it formats partitions/clusters of eMMc, folders of Pa1000 (DEMOSONG, MULTISMP, PAD, STYLE, SOUND, VOICEPRESET, KEYBOARDSET, GUITARPRESET, SONGDB.SBD) should be initialized with ALL its data of extensions (MID, JBX, KMP, PAD, SBD, STY, PRF, VOC, GTR, PCG, TBL, XML, flac, md5).
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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isaacl
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious, how did you delete the samples with "no ref" by them?
Was this done by using the delete option in the sound record mode?
Or is there another way to identify those samples, and delete them?
Thanks.
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BR
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Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1493
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isaacl wrote:
Just curious, how did you delete the samples with "no ref" by them?...

I used Korg Pa Manager.
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isaacl
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha, don't own that, wish there was a way to do that on the keyboard...

Thanks!
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BR
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Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1493
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: os Reply with quote

duby2 wrote:
where in the USA are you located. I am in Pennsylvania,
I am in California.

duby2 wrote:
how long ago did you asked Korg for information about resetting your PA 1000..
I contacted them on January/28/2020.

duby2 wrote:
You say the two files are exactly the same they...
I said after extraction the RAR files I get 2 files with exactly the same size of 983.6 MB for each.
Actually the RAR files have different file sizes, the package.001 is 536.9 MB and the package.002 is 446.8 MB.

duby2 wrote:
Keep us all informed, you are helping all of us.
Sure, as soon as I get concrete and accurate result I will report it back here.
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:28 pm    Post subject: Delete Unassigned Samples Reply with quote

isaacl wrote:
... don't own that, wish there was a way to do that on the keyboard .....


It is incomprehensible how often warnings have to be made, so with that software further corruption of Pa-keyboards data can be avoided.

Do not use file procedures of Pa-Manager with Pa-Keyboards Linux data management - Pa-Manager is no software of Korg.

Better while in any page of Multisample editing section of your Pa-Keyboard, choose the "Delete" command from the page menu to open the "Delete Multisample" dialog.
Select the "Delete Unassigned Samples" checkbox to delete all the samples left free after deleting the multisample and not used by other multisamples.

Also if you load a SET cleaned up some "no Ref" missing samples with software on a personal computer just to make sure a SET is ok, do not think your saved set with clean samples is suitable to be loaded with Pa1000. It is not, because this SET is not a set created with a Pa keyboard, but it is a SET of a personal computer, created with another different operating system and with a different data management than that of a Pa keyboard.
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duby2
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Joined: 16 Jun 2002
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Location: USA Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:37 am    Post subject: os Reply with quote

Just want to thank


BR


for his help here ..
Very Happy
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isaacl
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: Delete Unassigned Samples Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
Better while in any page of Multisample editing section of your Pa-Keyboard, choose the "Delete" command from the page menu to open the "Delete Multisample" dialog.
Select the "Delete Unassigned Samples" checkbox to delete all the samples left free after deleting the multisample and not used by other multisamples.


I always did it that way, wasn't sure if there was a better way to do it, but as long as the method on the keyboard should work...

Thanks!
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BR
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Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1493
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isaacl wrote:
Aha, don't own that, wish there was a way to do that on the keyboard...

Thanks!

I bought the Korg Pa Manager software because I noticed the "Deleting Unassigned Samples' feature inside the Pa1000 and Pa4X deletes only
the "Unassigned Samples", it does not delete the "no ref" samples.

I did deleting the "Unassigned Samples" many times inside the Pa1000 and Pa4X in different occasions
and then after verifying the same so called clean set in Korg Pa Manager, I found many "no ref" samples and I deleted them.

It was time consuming for me to find these "no ref" samples inside the Korg Pa Manager because I had to watch about more than 6000 samples to find and delete them but they are colored and that way it is easy to highlight and delete them. I did not find such an option inside of my Pa000 and Pa4X.

Somebody can correct, if I am mistaken, are the "Unassigned samples" the same as the "no ref" samples in Korg Pa series? Or they are different.
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angelitto
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Joined: 27 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BR wrote:

Somebody can correct, if I am mistaken, are the "Unassigned samples" the same as the "no ref" samples in Korg Pa series? Or they are different.


They are not the same.
- Unassigned samples = normal samples that are not assigned to any KMP
- no ref = damaged samples. You can see them in gray color in pa keyboards. You can't hear them.
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:43 pm    Post subject: freezing Pa1000 with custom samples Reply with quote

angelitto wrote:
.. - no ref = damaged samples. You can see them in gray color in pa keyboards. You can't hear them.


"Unassigned samples" is a term used by Korg in Pa-Keyboards dialogue "Delete sample". Starting this procedure will delete unassigned samples (is not the same as damaged or empty samples) from PCM-folder.
*
"No ref" is part of a term of a software (Pa-Manager, no Korg product) made to be used on computers, but not suitable for write access to filemanagement of a Pa keyboards.
The full term of warning message "M01" in Pa-Manager is: "Missing Sample! No Reference to Sample in PCM!" This warning is easy to understand and self-explanatory. Due to an obvious error in the Pa-Manager, missing samples with empty contents of multisamples / drum kits with a faulty link to PCM-samples will be created that are not available physically!
If can be seen them in gray color in Pa keyboards and can't be heared them, it exactly was made what never should not be done: loading Set folders generated with PC. Therefore next corruption of Pa-Keyboards memory again happened.
Why you can't hear gray colored samples? It is a mistake of Pa-manager to create such empty (or damaged?) samples - only have a name but no (or damaged) content, so it does not matter to delete them, because Multisample / Drumkit still exists with its (empty or faulty) links to that empty, non existing or faulty samples in PC-folder!
*
To preserve data structure integrity of Pa-keyboards each modification of SET folders outside the Pa-Keyboard is risky and does not ensure reliable use with them.
This also applies to copy operations of such SET folders and even if loading single items from such folders separately (open folder, load single item) it is not reliable whether a conversion will be started at this point as usual happens if loading data from other Pa-series instruments.
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angelitto
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@siebenhirter,

The gray samples from Pa Keyboards have nothing to do with Korg Pa Manager. Samples are corrupt due to incomplete loads or other reasons. I have seen such errors in sets from people who have never even heard of korg pa manager. So, don't try to blame that software for these bugs and errors that we encounter in different sets.
In korg pa4x, with OS v3.1.0, those samples are automatically deleted. We need that option in pa700 and pa1000 too.
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BR
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should be agree with both of you siebenhirter and angelitto.
I learned something from both of you and thank you.

siebenhirter wrote:

..."Unassigned samples" is a term used by Korg in Pa-Keyboards dialogue "Delete sample". Starting this procedure will delete unassigned samples (is not the same as damaged or empty samples) from PCM-folder.
*...
Agree.
I found the empty samples in my Set (in Drum kits) which gave me the Warning, Sound was incomplete: some items are not found. I fixed this problem.
After fixing the problem I loaded the sounds from PCG folders one by one (Not loading whole set) and since then I don't get any more this warning message.



angelitto wrote:

The gray samples from Pa Keyboards have nothing to do with Korg Pa Manager....
...In korg pa4x, with OS v3.1.0, those samples are automatically deleted. We need that option in pa700 and pa1000 too.
Agree.
This has nothing to do with Korg Pa Manager software and I think it's a weakness of the Pa1000 OS and Korg should resolve this problem.

Nowadays in 21st century we can not exclude the computers from our life and the Korg engineers should accept this and resolve this conflicts of incompatibility
between different Sets for Pa series or they should modify this advertising of Pa series compatibility from their website.


Or as Angelitto mentioned;
In korg pa4x, with OS v3.1.0, those samples are automatically deleted. We need that option in pa700 and pa1000 too.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:51 pm    Post subject: Usager of Pa manager / corrupt samples, multisamples, sounds Reply with quote

angelitto wrote:
.. Samples are corrupt due to incomplete loads or other reasons. I have seen such errors in sets from people who have never even heard of korg pa manager. ....In korg pa4x, with OS v3.1.0, those samples are automatically deleted. ...


I agree with you that we are talking about samples corrupted due to incomplete loads or other reasons. About such ‘Ghost’ samples as result of corrupt data, maybe created by importing or loading of malformed data, I NEVER have seen such errors in sets from people who have never even used a pa manager.
*
Only Pa4x checks if there are ‘ghost’ samples in the instrument’s memory when loading a single User Sound or Drum Kit based on User Samples and - if ‘ghost’ samples are found - they are automatically removed from the internal memory. OK - that is fine, but the causal problem not to produce corrupt sample data is not solved with it.

In case ghost samples are existing also with Pa4x it is necessary to delete Sounds and Drum Kits that were referring to ‘ghost’ samples and it is still necessary to remove the ‘orphaned’ multisamples.

Last step can be done automatically but deleting sounds and drum kits that were referring to ghost samples is to be done manually with "UnlinkedPCMs.csv" file, where the name of the Sounds and Drum Kits that contain references to the deleted ‘ghost’ samples can be seen.
At this point, you can go to the main page, open the Sound Select window and delete them. You can also find them by using the search function.

Also if ghost samples automatically are deleted in Korg Pa4x with OS v3.1.0 it is an illusion, all that necessary procedures will be done automatically.

But it’s definitely not a matter of belief, what causes corrupt samples that only exist as names and pointers!
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Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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