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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: Own arpeggio !
Hello guys:
I was searching for methods to build a own arpeggio in Kronos, and the results were:
1. It's possible to build an arpeggio by the "wave sequence" in global mode.
Here, I got 2 questions: a )Is it possible to play more than a note at the same time using the wave sequence ?. b) Is it possible to use the arpeggio with other engine instead HD ?
2. It's possible to build a own arpeggio using the Kronos Karma software...But... This software costs 169 US !!
3. A question: Is it possible to build a own arpeggio using the Karma function using only Kronos (I mean, without the Kronos Karma Software)
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Own arpeggio !
You can also use the Common Step Sequencer to create arpeggios in your EXi programs / combis. [see pg 184 in the Parameter Guide.]
And you can use RPPR in the Sequencer to make your own too. Those may also be converted to drum track patterns, if you want.
rod_proteus wrote:
1. It's possible to build an arpeggio by the "wave sequence" in global mode.
Here, I got 2 questions: a )Is it possible to play more than a note at the same time using the wave sequence ?. b) Is it possible to use the arpeggio with other engine instead HD ?
a) Yes!
b) No, wave sequences are for HD-1 programs only.
rod_proteus wrote:
3. A question: Is it possible to build a own arpeggio using the Karma function using only Kronos (I mean, without the Kronos Karma Software)
It's possible, but tricky, and requires a bit of knowledge about KARMA and maybe a lot of experimentation and practice. It really depends on which KARMA GE you choose, how you program its settings, how you play the keys to create a note series, etc. But you can also create as custom note map for simple arps, like as shown here in Charles's video: https://youtu.be/eWz-EBXNjSY
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Own arpeggio !
rod_proteus wrote:
Hello guys:
I was searching for methods to build a own arpeggio in Kronos, and the results were:
1. It's possible to build an arpeggio by the "wave sequence" in global mode.
Here, I got 2 questions: a )Is it possible to play more than a note at the same time using the wave sequence ?. b) Is it possible to use the arpeggio with other engine instead HD ?
2. It's possible to build a own arpeggio using the Kronos Karma software...But... This software costs 169 US !!
3. A question: Is it possible to build a own arpeggio using the Karma function using only Kronos (I mean, without the Kronos Karma Software)
Thanks !...
Sorry for my awfull english
Answers to your questions:
1a) It is not possible to play more than one note at a time in wave sequence mode.
b) Yes, other engines (EXi engines) have the Step Sequencer. This is my best advice to create your own "arpeggio." It is not exactly the same as an actual arpeggio, but it may be close enough for what you want.
If you choose this method:
1) Go to EXi 1 => OSC/Pitch tab => Pitch EG / Mod tab.
2) Set OSC1 Pitch Modulation
-- AMS 1 = Step Sequencer
-- Intensity = +25
Next, go to the Step Sequencer and program your own pattern.
3) Go to EXi 1 => Step Seq/LFO tab. Step Sequencer is here.
Each semitone = 4 in this step sequencer. One octave = 48, since 12 semitones x 4 = 48.
Another way to understand this:
4 = half-step
8 = whole step
12 = minor 3rd
16 = major 3rd
20 = 4th
24 = tritone
28 = 5th
48 = octave up
-48 = octave down
96 = 2 octaves up
-96 = 2 octaves down
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:08 pm Post subject:
rod_proteus wrote:
Guys....Thanks for your time and answers !...
I love my Kronos, but I hate this "incapability" for making arpeggios.
Yes, I totally understand. I think that's a major drawback, along with no piano roll in the sequencer.
Just to be sure though... You can get something like basic arp functions using KARMA. Just select the 0000 Arp Model 01 Up/Down, then go to the RT/KARMA tab on the Control Surface, and reduce the Note Range using slider 5.
I love my Kronos, but I hate this "incapability" for making arpeggios.
Yes, I totally understand. I think that's a major drawback, along with no piano roll in the sequencer.
Also, not being able to change the RPPR shutoff keys is a drawback, imo. I would really love to be able to modify the default of C -1 to C2 to something custom so I don't lose a chunk of my 88-key keyboard. The only workaround I have is to use Octave Up to shift it. That works pretty good, but I lose the SW1 functionality for other things. If only I could customize the shutoff key(s)...
psionic311 wrote:
Just to be sure though... You can get something like basic arp functions using KARMA. Just select the 0000 Arp Model 01 Up/Down, then go to the RT/KARMA tab on the Control Surface, and reduce the Note Range using slider 5.
I strongly recommend reading these two docs as primers for basic KARMA arps. They're older, meant for the KARMA keyboard, but the settings more or less still apply to the newer KARMA version in the Kronos or M3. To be honest, these two documents were vital when I was learning how KARMA worked.
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:29 pm Post subject:
HardSync wrote:
psionic311 wrote:
rod_proteus wrote:
Guys....Thanks for your time and answers !...
I love my Kronos, but I hate this "incapability" for making arpeggios.
Yes, I totally understand. I think that's a major drawback, along with no piano roll in the sequencer.
Also, not being able to change the RPPR shutoff keys is a drawback, imo. I would really love to be able to modify the default of C -1 to C2 to something custom so I don't lose a chunk of my 88-key keyboard. The only workaround I have is to use Octave Up to shift it. That works pretty good, but I lose the SW1 functionality for other things. If only I could customize the shutoff key(s)...
psionic311 wrote:
Just to be sure though... You can get something like basic arp functions using KARMA. Just select the 0000 Arp Model 01 Up/Down, then go to the RT/KARMA tab on the Control Surface, and reduce the Note Range using slider 5.
I strongly recommend reading these two docs as primers for basic KARMA arps. They're older, meant for the KARMA keyboard, but the settings more or less still apply to the newer KARMA version in the Kronos or M3. To be honest, these two documents were vital when I was learning how KARMA worked.
Thanks, will definitely check those docs out. I'm currently in a phase where I'm really doubling down on trying to get more familiar with those parts of the Kronos that still mystify me -- MOD7, sampling and file formats, sequencer, wave sequencer, STR-1, KARMA. I've got 2 of them down now, only 4 more to go.
Regarding a workaround for RPPR -- perhaps you could use the Pads... and a NanoPad?
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:34 pm Post subject:
rod_proteus wrote:
Guys....Thanks for your time and answers !...
I love my Kronos, but I hate this "incapability" for making arpeggios.
Looks like you should also read the KARMA pdfs that HardSync linked above!
Here's what it says in the very beginning:
Stephen Kay wrote:
The first 32 GEs included in the Karma Music Workstations have the designation "Arp Model"
inside their names. That's because they were designed to emulate conventional arpeggiator
behavior. We are going to experiment with "GE 0000 Arp Model 01 Up/Dn."
This particular Arp Model does about 95% of what any "conventional arpeggiator" does on
another keyboard.
Regarding a workaround for RPPR -- perhaps you could use the Pads... and a NanoPad?
Unfortunately, no. Even though RPPR patterns are assigned to a specific track/midi channel and can be triggered via external midi, once you switch on RPPR, the keyboard and tone generator itself is "locked in" to the key settings for RPPR, regardless of which track you are on. That way everything plays as expected.
So with 88 keys, you lose an octave +3 keys for the shutdown keys. But with the Octave Up assigned to SW1 or SW2, then it's only 4 keys - the lowest C to the first key, A. Korg does it this way so that there is always at least one key to shutoff RPPR, the first key on a 61-key workstation, but also for portability between models when sharing PCGs and sequencer songs.
If you could change the shutoff keys to something outside of the range of the actual keyboard, that would easily allow for the pads or a nanopad to function as the RPPR shutoff. But it is not to be...
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:39 pm Post subject:
Another option then is to use something other than the Switches to switch to Octave Up.
I recently discovered the Function Assign tab in GLOBAL mode. There you can assign any incoming CC to execute any function that the footswitch can do. This includes Octave Up. Note that re-mapping an incoming CC this way only affects that incoming CC#... you can still use that CC elsewhere normally.
Simply put, you can free up SW1 by using one of these instead in combination with Function Assign:
footswitch
Nanopad
any MIDI controller
Not a big deal, you've probably already adapted to losing SW1 or SW2 to dedicate to Octave Up only when you're using RPPR.
I recently discovered the Function Assign tab in GLOBAL mode.
Thanks for all the suggestions! That would certainly work... if [ahem] I owned a Kronos*. I own an M3. Sadly, the M3's "CC Assign" differs substantially from the Kronos's Function Assign, which has greater flexibility.
One thing about the Nanopad, as far as I can tell with mine anyway, is that if you do assign it to send out a particular CC, it always sends it at a MIDI value of 127, and a value of 0 when released. That's fine for a lot of things, certainly for programming Octave Up on the Kronos. But there is no way to program it to any other specific value. So, for instance, if you want to use an external controller to make KARMA scene changes, you need to be able to send out CC#30 with corresponding MIDI values ranging only between 0 and 7. Every value from 8 to 127 is ignored. The Nanopad doesn't allow for this, and there's no way to modify this on the keyboard itself, from what I can discern. I could probably data map it on MIDI-OX though. But, we're getting a bit off-topic here. :)
*I'm still waiting for a Kronos to magically appear at my doorstep. I've been waiting ever-so-patiently since the Kronos first came out. The world is all out of lucky magic it seems, and I really can't spend the money on one. But I do like my M3, so I'm not going to complain... much. LOL.
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Own arpeggio !
rod_proteus wrote:
Hello guys:
I was searching for methods to build a own arpeggio in Kronos, and the results were:
1. It's possible to build an arpeggio by the "wave sequence" in global mode.
Here, I got 2 questions: a )Is it possible to play more than a note at the same time using the wave sequence ?. b) Is it possible to use the arpeggio with other engine instead HD ?
2. It's possible to build a own arpeggio using the Kronos Karma software...But... This software costs 169 US !!
3. A question: Is it possible to build a own arpeggio using the Karma function using only Kronos (I mean, without the Kronos Karma Software)
Thanks !...
Sorry for my awfull english
Your questions have already been answered, but I have few things to add.
1 a) : My answer is Yes ! Using wasequences suppose to use HD1 programs.
In one HD1 Prog, you can use two HD1 OSC (osc 1 and osc 2).
In each Osc, you can play two samples at one time, on the same velocity.
On each sample you can use one wavesequences.
So, all in all, you can play a total of 4 wavesequences at a time, so if you copy one wavesequence 3 times (in Global mode) and then adjust the pitch of each step for each wavesequence, you can play up to 4 notes in wavesequences !
Hi guys...
Again....thanks for your time and your answers .... I appreciate it....
I tried the step sequencer (in AL engine) and it works...but, I got a problem and i cannot fix it ...
I set , in the pitch tab, the AMS 1 = step sequencer and then I programmed the sequence...Here everything is ok...
The problem is that as modulating the pitch, the program sound is not re-triggered as each step sequencer note is played... It's like to press the key, hold it and listen to pitch switchings only.... do you get me ?...
So, the question is : how to retrigger the program sound by each note in the step sequencer ?
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject:
rod_proteus wrote:
The problem is that as modulating the pitch, the program sound is not re-triggered as each step sequencer note is played... It's like to press the key, hold it and listen to pitch switchings only.... do you get me ?...
So, the question is : how to retrigger the program sound by each note in the step sequencer ?
I understand what you're saying. This method below will partially solve the problem:
- go to the Amp EG page
- under EG Reset, change AMS = Step Sequencer, Threshold = +01
- adjust the ADSR parameters as needed
Sometimes, if the settings are just right, this will re-trigger the notes.
If you really need to have each note re-triggered, perhaps you should use the Arp Model in KARMA. Are you making a specific sequence, or will a general pattern work (like octave up/down, arp up/down)?
The problem is that as modulating the pitch, the program sound is not re-triggered as each step sequencer note is played... It's like to press the key, hold it and listen to pitch switchings only.... do you get me ?...
So, the question is : how to retrigger the program sound by each note in the step sequencer ?
I understand what you're saying. This method below will partially solve the problem:
- go to the Amp EG page
- under EG Reset, change AMS = Step Sequencer, Threshold = +01
- adjust the ADSR parameters as needed
Sometimes, if the settings are just right, this will re-trigger the notes.
If you really need to have each note re-triggered, perhaps you should use the Arp Model in KARMA. Are you making a specific sequence, or will a general pattern work (like octave up/down, arp up/down)?
Oh man...thank you very much...
All of this is about for building a Jarre arpeggios... I have the Magnetics field 1 lead sequence in the sequencer..and sound fantastic (using a AL1 program..It really sounds fantastic)...I and want to use an arpeggio in real time to trigger it live... And also the Equinoxe 7 ...
I insist...I really love my Kronos, but I hate this "incapability" for making own arpeggios.
I have a Motif ES7 and to make your own arpeggios is very easy...and also, you can have a set of 5 arppeggios (selectable by button switch) ready for you.
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