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Looking for Brass Sounds for POP R&B Covers

 
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RMW



Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:58 pm    Post subject: Looking for Brass Sounds for POP R&B Covers Reply with quote

I've used the triton studio series for a very long time. I've created a horn combi that works on all of the POP R&B I play. It really is authentic and I've taken a lot of time to create it. Now I am a proud Kronos owner but their Brass programs and Combi's have a lot to be desired. They all sound like GM brass sounds. I've learned that you cannot migrate the Triton Studio sounds over to the Kronos, Sooooo, my question is: Does anybody have any resources/ideas to share on how to get a great POP R&B horn sound for the Kronos? With all of this incredible sound and technology in the Kronos, Korg really missed the boat on this! Really.

Thank you so much.

RW
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benny ray
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't used this link in awhile don't know if it will be any help but I think there is a few brass patches best I can recall.

https://www.kronoshaven.com/kronos-news/best-korg-triton-korg-kronos/
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Xenophile
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using the EXs 16 Funk and Soul Brass
https://shop.korg.com/Kronos/EXS-16

It gives you a lot of good stuff to work with.
Of course you will need to tweak it to your playing style.
Plus there are a lot of multisamples included that are not used in the supplied programs... For example, you might want faster or slower fall samples. It can get pretty overwhelming when you start finding how many possibilities there are.

I've had my Kronos 2 for a little over 2 years now, and I feel like I'm just starting to get a handle on some of the stuff it can do.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for Brass Sounds for POP R&B Covers Reply with quote

RMW wrote:
I've used the triton studio series for a very long time. I've created a horn combi that works on all of the POP R&B I play. It really is authentic and I've taken a lot of time to create it. Now I am a proud Kronos owner but their Brass programs and Combi's have a lot to be desired. They all sound like GM brass sounds. I've learned that you cannot migrate the Triton Studio sounds over to the Kronos, Sooooo, my question is: Does anybody have any resources/ideas to share on how to get a great POP R&B horn sound for the Kronos? With all of this incredible sound and technology in the Kronos, Korg really missed the boat on this! Really.

Thank you so much.

RW


I think I understand what you are getting at. It takes sometime for me to get a decent ensemble in my originals;
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994/truth-come-home00wav

If you go to :10, I work in a brass swell

Do you have a recording of your Triton work ?

Or 1 or 2 particular covers where you need the depth and quality of brass ?

I think more context and recordings helps to identify and possibly solve the challenge
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RMW



Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Everyone, thank you so much for responding so fast. Amazing! So here is a link for my triton studio brass patch I made years ago and it works for everything brass R7B.

https://soundcloud.com/roger-wood-279274946/triton-studio-horns

It has soft french horns mixed with bones on softer velocities and the swells come off of the ribbon controller. But it looks like I will have to build another custom patch/combi in the kronos II. ugh.

I am going to look at the links a couple of you guys sent.

RW

https://soundcloud.com/roger-wood-279274946/triton-studio-horns[/url]
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you did a good job programming in your Triton. Its cool to see/hear that you know how to put a section or ensemble together.

I don't rely much on the Kronos brass Combis. There is some good work here and there but nothing useful for 70's pop R & D. IMO, Korg programmers didn't cover this genre with their programming.

I haven't noticed anyone building Chicago style horn/sax Combis or EWF related on Kronos.

I suppose, theoretically, if one had skill, and time they could build something from scratch on Kronos. IMO, the horn samples sound to synthy, its not an instrument category of strength.

I use some of the brass ensemble programs in my multi track originals. They are good enough for my purpose and my listeners.

What I recall from 3rd parties, is of the orchestral type. You might have to dig around to find a 70's R & B fit.

Here, Kronos trombone program sounds 'good ' to my ears. If you jump to
1:30 , the 4 velocity trombone program is effective:
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994/another-rainy-daywavp

If you find something, I am very interested the same quality you are looking for.
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was asking about brass stuff a week or so ago for that sort of thing. In addition to the EXs 16, some recommended the EXs 116, which is currently on sale:

http://shop.korg.com/Kronos/EXS-116

I listened to the samples and downloaded the demos. I think both sound good on unison lines. However, the 116 individual horns sounded like there was a flanger on them when played separately.

I commented on that last week but it occurs to me that might be by design as a technique to fatten things up a bit when several are played together. That's pure speculation on my part, of course. That aside, both sound pretty good for punchy single lines.

As for Chicago style horn section work, I'll be experimenting with just recording each horn separately. Since I'm not a gigging keyboardist, I don't have to worry about one patch to rule them all, so tracking individually may be the best approach for me in the studio.
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RMW



Joined: 27 Sep 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is true that they phase/flange or chorus the horns a bit to fatten them up.
The horn ensemble patch I made up in the triton only utilizes 3 horn patches in the combi. But they have subtle chorus and flange to give the undertones audible movement and shifting. It is difficult to find that right combination of which tone/timbre/patch, gets which effect to achieve the best ensemble sound. It's like trying to open a combination safe without the combination. I actually just happened upon the triton brass ensemble that I have. For me there was no math involved, I got lucky. But now reverse engineering won't even help because the timbres and modeling technology has changed in the kronos from what it was/is in the triton. I'm thinking about incorporating Mainstage on a MacBook to run virtual instruments just for 'live' brass using NI Native Instruments Komplete Session Horns Plugin.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RMW wrote:
It is true that they phase/flange or chorus the horns a bit to fatten them up.
The horn ensemble patch I made up in the triton only utilizes 3 horn patches in the combi. But they have subtle chorus and flange to give the undertones audible movement and shifting. It is difficult to find that right combination of which tone/timbre/patch, gets which effect to achieve the best ensemble sound. It's like trying to open a combination safe without the combination. I actually just happened upon the triton brass ensemble that I have. For me there was no math involved, I got lucky. But now reverse engineering won't even help because the timbres and modeling technology has changed in the kronos from what it was/is in the triton. I'm thinking about incorporating Mainstage on a MacBook to run virtual instruments just for 'live' brass using NI Native Instruments Komplete Session Horns Plugin.


found this demo on the NI Session brass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9ic4Sb_F20&t=305s

it looks capable. Sound quality was ok, possibly with no FX, brass instruments are dry.

If you find a better demo, let me know. Thanks
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RMW



Joined: 27 Sep 2019
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I saw this a couple of days ago too. I already have Kontakt with my Logics Pro X daw, so I believe I'm going to stop chasing the elusive dream that real-sounding POP horn/ensembles can be found in a workstation or keyboard. I believe I will start using Kontakt Session Horns on a laptop 'live' and map it to the upper split area on my triton with my other triton horn patch to double them up, and that I believe should do the trick quite well for my usage which is top 40 R&B Pop Dance music. I'll have my Kronos on top for everything else. I'll keep ya'll posted.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RMW wrote:
Yes, I saw this a couple of days ago too. I already have Kontakt with my Logics Pro X daw, so I believe I'm going to stop chasing the elusive dream that real-sounding POP horn/ensembles can be found in a workstation or keyboard. I believe I will start using Kontakt Session Horns on a laptop 'live' and map it to the upper split area on my triton with my other triton horn patch to double them up, and that I believe should do the trick quite well for my usage which is top 40 R&B Pop Dance music. I'll have my Kronos on top for everything else. I'll keep ya'll posted.


That sounds like a good direct approach. I can report brass on my FA is nothing special.

I recall that brass on MODX is good maybe better than good. But to spend $1500 just for 1 or 2 instrument categories is not optimum.
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