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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Devnor wrote: | | In just a few years the jump in computer technology will put the workstation out of work if it has not already. Keyboard mfrs have to make keyboards its really a question of do they want to re-invent the wheel via a next gen workstation or somehow bridge the gap between software & hardware? In 2019 why should I try to make a Kronos sound like a Jupiter 8 when I can just use the plug in? Then when I get tired of that plug in, I move on to something else. You can't do with a work station. AL1 been around 10+ years. If it's not already in a preset, it's not getting used at all because there are better & easier ways to get the same result. |
I don't believe its that easy to predict the future.
Who would have thought, 15 yrs ago, that record albums would return to some popularity ?
Anyway, speaking for myself, I am not the least bit bored with all of the great possibilities at our finger tips.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams 
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billysynth1
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 1148
Location: Australia/Melbourne
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: |
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What happened to Korg and the support we use to get from them in this Forum? There has been no sign of Korg contributing to our discussions as they did in the past.
Korg has let go of a lot of their top level and experienced staff. Why? Perhaps they are running a deficit. Why let go of your staff if your a profitable company? I think the only person standing is Jack Hotop?
Perhaps they don't have the funds to continue with high tech workstation development so they continually release cheap play toys.
They are able to release new cheap play toys but only provide slight modification to an ever existing same old Kronos. The last modification to the Kronos was a paint job. That software update released a few weeks ago is insignificant.
Anyway see what happens Jan 2020...if no new release...I'm writing them off.
Vas
_________________
Yamaha C1 Grand Piano.
Korg Oasys 88, Jupiter 80
Kronos 88, V Synth GT
I am a student of classical piano...I am not a classical pianist. |
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Rigel
Senior Member
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 252
Location: Izmir, Turkey
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: KRONOS Successor? |
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| Kevbo wrote: |
Ah...good to know. Thank you! And yes, I have played them many times at guitar center, spending hours looking through the interface and playing. Not impressed with the interface. Sounds great, though! |
I insist that you behave pedantically. Playing the thing in a store ain't enough to talk like that. Buy the beast, read the 1500+ page manuals, spend nights in front of it, come back, and I'll listen.
_________________
Korg KronosX73, Kurzweil PC3K6, Roland V-Synth GT, Kawai K5000S, Waldorf Blofeld, Novation Ultranova, Behringer Neutron, Yamaha HS80M, Boss Micro BR80, Zoom H6, Sony PCM D100, Tascam DP32SD, Mackie 1202VLZ4, Zoom MS-70CDR, Rode NT1, Sony MDR 7506. |
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janrhansen
Junior Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 66
Location: Odense, Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="GregC"] | Lightbringer wrote: | The strength of Kronos is the sum of its parts plus sample streaming.
Not the individual parts, like addressable memory, etc. |
This is the part that not many realise how advanced the Kronos actually is, despite its old tech inside.
its 32bit and has only a total of 3gb total ram wich is actually just 1.3gb left with the factory installed ex's
How far does does a software sampler come with only 2gb of sample ram ... not very far, and I have yet to see a software vst sampler that is actually able to stream samples without still requiring a 64bit host. I have tried out Kontakt in Cubase 5.x 32bit client and it crashes very easy if you load a big library like eg the brilliant Orange Tree Guitar and bass libraries.
So yes you are absolutely right. We often tend to think more advanced tech would do a better job, but If it aint broken, no reason to try to fix it, and the Kronos seem to work fine with the old tech still.
_________________
Korg Kronos 2-73, Crumar Mojo 61, Roland A90ex, Yamaha P9000Pro, Korg T3, Roland PK5, Roland R-8m, Roland SC-88, Digitech Vocalist-II, Presonus AudioBox 22vsl+Studio one 2 Artist |
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Kevbo
Joined: 03 Mar 2019
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: KRONOS Successor? |
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| Rigel wrote: | | Kevbo wrote: |
Ah...good to know. Thank you! And yes, I have played them many times at guitar center, spending hours looking through the interface and playing. Not impressed with the interface. Sounds great, though! |
I insist that you behave pedantically. Playing the thing in a store ain't enough to talk like that. Buy the beast, read the 1500+ page manuals, spend nights in front of it, come back, and I'll listen. |
If you didn’t have an opinion that could help me, I really didn’t ask to you to listen to me. Why would I spend 4 grand on something only to possibly have buyer’s remorse afterward. So have a nice day and peace be with you. |
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matro
Junior Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: |
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[quote="janrhansen"] | GregC wrote: | | Lightbringer wrote: | The strength of Kronos is the sum of its parts plus sample streaming.
Not the individual parts, like addressable memory, etc. |
This is the part that not many realise how advanced the Kronos actually is, despite its old tech inside.
its 32bit and has only a total of 3gb total ram wich is actually just 1.3gb left with the factory installed ex's
How far does does a software sampler come with only 2gb of sample ram ... not very far, and I have yet to see a software vst sampler that is actually able to stream samples without still requiring a 64bit host. I have tried out Kontakt in Cubase 5.x 32bit client and it crashes very easy if you load a big library like eg the brilliant Orange Tree Guitar and bass libraries.
So yes you are absolutely right. We often tend to think more advanced tech would do a better job, but If it aint broken, no reason to try to fix it, and the Kronos seem to work fine with the old tech still. |
Honestly, due to the stream-sampling feature, you do get quite far on the 3.25GB (if you have 4 installed).
BTW would you load all factory EXs all the time if you feel a shortage of memory.
My issue with the Kronos is not the 32-bit architecture, it is polyphony. The way Kronos is setup it is soo easy to run of of polyphony.
My wishes for a successor of the Kronos would be a lot higher polyphony and perhaps an upgraded UI. Touch UIs today have come a long way since 2011. |
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kingtj
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2002
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:54 am Post subject: Still have my original Kronos 76 from early 2012.... |
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When I made the investment in it, I *did* hope it was going to be supported for a decent length of time.... Unlike buying the latest laptop computer? Synth makers don't sell individual models by the millions and they don't upgrade them every 3-6 months whenever something slightly faster or with more video resolution or storage capability appears on the market.
So I, for one, am kind of pleased that all of the updates to it have been relatively minor -- and you still see the Kronos used on stage quite regularly. I had a feeling when I bought it that it was going to be THE authoritative music workstation synth/sampler, and I think it's largely turned out that way.
All that said? I agree that it's been long enough now so I'd like to see something new coming down the pipe from KORG. One of the things I'd like to see is the ability to attach a full size external LCD monitor (or even a pair of them!) and to make full use of them, when attached, for such things as editing sound patches or samples. I mean, why do we still need to attach it to a PC or Mac and run separate software to do those tasks? The technology is here to put an entire Intel Core i5 or i7 CPU based PC inside a case the size of the Kronos's, and at a fairly insignificant cost. (Heck, you could probably cram the whole thing in ALONG WITH the entire existing board and processor that runs it now, and bridge the two internally so one can directly see the other. Then, you could truly install and run your choice of applications like Cubase right on the keyboard!)
I think if they wanted to drop the Kronos name and create a whole new replacement music workstation? It would be a good opportunity to make one that was fully backwards compatible loading in the Kronos file formats -- but would just save everything into a whole new format, designed to work better with the larger amounts of RAM and drive space you have in modern systems.
I mean, it feels really "obsolete/outdated" to me that I have to re-load factory presets after a custom sound bank has overwritten them all. With 1TB SSDs in common use today and non-volatile flash storage like you have in an iPhone or iPad? You could just set it up so all the commercial sound banks KORG would ever sell would be able to get loaded into the flash storage, where they'd reside, essentially permanently (unless you tell the system to purposely wipe them). No need for it to compete with space for user presets or even large samples. |
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Kevbo
Joined: 03 Mar 2019
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Still have my original Kronos 76 from early 2012.... |
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| kingtj wrote: | When I made the investment in it, I *did* hope it was going to be supported for a decent length of time.... Unlike buying the latest laptop computer? Synth makers don't sell individual models by the millions and they don't upgrade them every 3-6 months whenever something slightly faster or with more video resolution or storage capability appears on the market.
So I, for one, am kind of pleased that all of the updates to it have been relatively minor -- and you still see the Kronos used on stage quite regularly. I had a feeling when I bought it that it was going to be THE authoritative music workstation synth/sampler, and I think it's largely turned out that way.
All that said? I agree that it's been long enough now so I'd like to see something new coming down the pipe from KORG. One of the things I'd like to see is the ability to attach a full size external LCD monitor (or even a pair of them!) and to make full use of them, when attached, for such things as editing sound patches or samples. I mean, why do we still need to attach it to a PC or Mac and run separate software to do those tasks? The technology is here to put an entire Intel Core i5 or i7 CPU based PC inside a case the size of the Kronos's, and at a fairly insignificant cost. (Heck, you could probably cram the whole thing in ALONG WITH the entire existing board and processor that runs it now, and bridge the two internally so one can directly see the other. Then, you could truly install and run your choice of applications like Cubase right on the keyboard!)
I think if they wanted to drop the Kronos name and create a whole new replacement music workstation? It would be a good opportunity to make one that was fully backwards compatible loading in the Kronos file formats -- but would just save everything into a whole new format, designed to work better with the larger amounts of RAM and drive space you have in modern systems.
I mean, it feels really "obsolete/outdated" to me that I have to re-load factory presets after a custom sound bank has overwritten them all. With 1TB SSDs in common use today and non-volatile flash storage like you have in an iPhone or iPad? You could just set it up so all the commercial sound banks KORG would ever sell would be able to get loaded into the flash storage, where they'd reside, essentially permanently (unless you tell the system to purposely wipe them). No need for it to compete with space for user presets or even large samples. |
Thank you for your thoughts on this matter. Many different threads I read, the usual response is, "Will the KRONOS do everything you want in a keyboard right now? If so, then buy it, and you will be satisfied." Well, I'm sorry, but everyone gets buyer's remorse, and even if the KRONOS did everything I wanted right now, if in a year or two a successor comes out similar to KRONOS, but much faster, more RAM, more storage, better samples, straight out of the box....yeah, I'd feel a little betrayed that we didn't get this news down the line so we can make sound purchases.
I am this close to purchasing the SE, but I'm starting to think the SE will be the end of the line for KRONOS, and we have no clue if a successor is even if the works, or if they ever plan on going any further. I can't imagine they would stop, but they also don't appear to be worried about customer acquisition anymore, with the exception of the SE. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Still have my original Kronos 76 from early 2012.... |
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| Kevbo wrote: | [qu
I am this close to purchasing the SE, but I'm starting to think the SE will be the end of the line for KRONOS, and we have no clue if a successor is even if the works, or if they ever plan on going any further. I can't imagine they would stop, but they also don't appear to be worried about customer acquisition anymore, with the exception of the SE. |
This is very accurate. I also think the SE is the end of the line for Kronos.
Like many here, 8 year Kronos owner and Korg watcher.
I can say this- Kronos is an excellent music production keyboard. Its extremely satisfying to play every day. The option to transform Kronos with excellent 3rd party sample libs makes it figuratively a life time keyboard.
While we obsess over the future [ I have done this], we have to stop and think. The future is here. The future has been here. It is now. Forget about the ' shiney new thing '. It does not exist.
I think $3800 is something to ponder for a keyboard. Even so, I am serious about creating music. If you or anyone is serious like that, the SE is a no brainer, assuming you can afford it. And you have clearly identified your music priorities.
If you are just noodling around, $3800 might be extravagant.
$3800 is not an impulse purchase, IMO.
Once you wrap your thoughts around this, its about your choice, not speculation. I think the MODX , while dis-similar to Kronos, is a consideration.
Just the same, Kronos is at least 5 times the MODX in terms of power, capability .
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Liviou2004
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 1150
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Noone is able to say there will be a new worstation after the Kronos. Perhaps the Kornos is tha last template of a thirty years familiy, begun with the M1 ?
It is not a nonsense to think you'll wait for a new worstation which will never appear. Who knows ?
This subject has been treated many many times here. Unfortunately, you're alone in front of your decisionn : "To wait or not to wait, that is the question".
But one thing is absolutely sure : just as it is, the Kronos is a wonderful instrument. |
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Kevbo
Joined: 03 Mar 2019
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Still have my original Kronos 76 from early 2012.... |
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| GregC wrote: | | Kevbo wrote: | [qu
I am this close to purchasing the SE, but I'm starting to think the SE will be the end of the line for KRONOS, and we have no clue if a successor is even if the works, or if they ever plan on going any further. I can't imagine they would stop, but they also don't appear to be worried about customer acquisition anymore, with the exception of the SE. |
This is very accurate. I also think the SE is the end of the line for Kronos.
Like many here, 8 year Kronos owner and Korg watcher.
I can say this- Kronos is an excellent music production keyboard. Its extremely satisfying to play every day. The option to transform Kronos with excellent 3rd party sample libs makes it figuratively a life time keyboard.
While we obsess over the future [ I have done this], we have to stop and think. The future is here. The future has been here. It is now. Forget about the ' shiney new thing '. It does not exist.
I think $3800 is something to ponder for a keyboard. Even so, I am serious about creating music. If you or anyone is serious like that, the SE is a no brainer, assuming you can afford it. And you have clearly identified your music priorities.
If you are just noodling around, $3800 might be extravagant.
$3800 is not an impulse purchase, IMO.
Once you wrap your thoughts around this, its about your choice, not speculation. I think the MODX , while dis-similar to Kronos, is a consideration.
Just the same, Kronos is at least 5 times the MODX in terms of power, capability . |
Thank you for these thoughts. You make things more clear for me. Music is a hobby right now...has been for 21 years, but I like to record a lot of music on my own. I was in a couple bands, but now I have two young children. I do plan on joining up with a band again someday, and I think a KRONOS type keyboard with a MIDI controller connected to it for synth action would be a great gigging setup.
You're right, $3,800 is a lot of money, and I can afford it. It just bothers me that with a new KRONOS, they didn't bother upgrading any internals. I get the whole production process, but it was time for some upgrades to get rid of the bottlenecks.
You are making me realize the future is now. I can't really argue with what the KRONOS can do, though I'm not too impressed with the user interface, but I'm told I can learn that relatively quickly (the interface, not the entire KRONOS).
I also see ways to upgrade by adding a secondary hard drive, which I would like to do, but I wouldn't do that out of the box. I would wait until I potentially fill the existing one, because I don't like ever getting rid of factory presets of any kind, even if I never use them (maybe that's something I need to learn to get over).
But again, thank you for your thoughts. I won't make any decisions until Guitar Center starts showing them on their website. Guitar Center gives 10% off to veterans, so that $400 bucks will go towards new monitors...probably Yahama 7s. |
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Kevbo
Joined: 03 Mar 2019
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Liviou2004 wrote: | Noone is able to say there will be a new worstation after the Kronos. Perhaps the Kornos is tha last template of a thirty years familiy, begun with the M1 ?
It is not a nonsense to think you'll wait for a new worstation which will never appear. Who knows ?
This subject has been treated many many times here. Unfortunately, you're alone in front of your decisionn : "To wait or not to wait, that is the question".
But one thing is absolutely sure : just as it is, the Kronos is a wonderful instrument. |
Thank you for your thoughts. I guess one of my "issues" is that if I drop $4,000 on the KRONOS now, part of me will think...man, this is the same KRONOS from yesterday, and I could have had it EIGHT years ago. I almost feel like I would be buying some old parts just to have some fun, and then the new and shiny thing comes out, and all the former KRONOS owners jump ship for the new flagship.
I know that's almost childish to think like that, but again, I'm a consumer, and dropping that kind of money warrants those feelings. The more and more I research, I will most likely be getting the SE, but not until Guitar Center carries it due to their veteran discount of 10%. The saved money will go toward some new Yamaha 7 monitors. |
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kronoSphere
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 697
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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The least we can say is that the musical instrument stores do not jostle for the Kronos SE, nor the Montage in their stores. ! Why ? Many sellers explain that the days of workstations are now counted ... A keyboard, a small computer and you immediately at your door thousands of musical instruments all more breathtaking than each other. I really believe that workstations will continue to exist but they are going through hard times.
And still : even not a word from Korg
_________________
trees are going fast.
https://www.lairdeparis.fr
Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack /Awave 11 / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512. |
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Kevbo
Joined: 03 Mar 2019
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| kronoSphere wrote: | The least we can say is that the musical instrument stores do not jostle for the Kronos SE, nor the Montage in their stores. ! Why ? Many sellers explain that the days of workstations are now counted ... A keyboard, a small computer and you immediately at your door thousands of musical instruments all more breathtaking than each other. I really believe that workstations will continue to exist but they are going through hard times.
And still : even not a word from Korg |
I can't argue with you on that. I go to my local guitar center, and they used to carry all the latest and greatest. Now they just have a few stage pianos and some MIDI controllers. One corner is a Mac with some VSTs, external hardware, and a very high price point as well.
I use VSTs, and enjoy them for recording at my house, but I don't trust enough to go out gigging with them due to potential latency. I know many use VSTs and MIDI controllers in bands, but I haven't gotten quite there yet. Not sure if I ever will.
I like the idea of having all in one, which is why the KRONOS is still attractive to me. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Still have my original Kronos 76 from early 2012.... |
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| Kevbo wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | Kevbo wrote: | [qu
I am this close to purchasing the SE, but I'm starting to think the SE will be the end of the line for KRONOS, and we have no clue if a successor is even if the works, or if they ever plan on going any further. I can't imagine they would stop, but they also don't appear to be worried about customer acquisition anymore, with the exception of the SE. |
This is very accurate. I also think the SE is the end of the line for Kronos.
Like many here, 8 year Kronos owner and Korg watcher.
I can say this- Kronos is an excellent music production keyboard. Its extremely satisfying to play every day. The option to transform Kronos with excellent 3rd party sample libs makes it figuratively a life time keyboard.
While we obsess over the future [ I have done this], we have to stop and think. The future is here. The future has been here. It is now. Forget about the ' shiney new thing '. It does not exist.
I think $3800 is something to ponder for a keyboard. Even so, I am serious about creating music. If you or anyone is serious like that, the SE is a no brainer, assuming you can afford it. And you have clearly identified your music priorities.
If you are just noodling around, $3800 might be extravagant.
$3800 is not an impulse purchase, IMO.
Once you wrap your thoughts around this, its about your choice, not speculation. I think the MODX , while dis-similar to Kronos, is a consideration.
Just the same, Kronos is at least 5 times the MODX in terms of power, capability . |
Thank you for these thoughts. You make things more clear for me. Music is a hobby right now...has been for 21 years, but I like to record a lot of music on my own. I was in a couple bands, but now I have two young children. I do plan on joining up with a band again someday, and I think a KRONOS type keyboard with a MIDI controller connected to it for synth action would be a great gigging setup.
You're right, $3,800 is a lot of money, and I can afford it. It just bothers me that with a new KRONOS, they didn't bother upgrading any internals. I get the whole production process, but it was time for some upgrades to get rid of the bottlenecks.
You are making me realize the future is now. I can't really argue with what the KRONOS can do, though I'm not too impressed with the user interface, but I'm told I can learn that relatively quickly (the interface, not the entire KRONOS).
I also see ways to upgrade by adding a secondary hard drive, which I would like to do, but I wouldn't do that out of the box. I would wait until I potentially fill the existing one, because I don't like ever getting rid of factory presets of any kind, even if I never use them (maybe that's something I need to learn to get over).
But again, thank you for your thoughts. I won't make any decisions until Guitar Center starts showing them on their website. Guitar Center gives 10% off to veterans, so that $400 bucks will go towards new monitors...probably Yahama 7s. |
I am glad to help- even while its opinion, I try to be objective.
You can definitely get by with the SE factory SSD for a while, assuming you don't go overboard on 3rd party libs. I am very selective on those extra purchases, as they are expensive.
I do agree, Korg should have provided the 100 gig SSD in the SE. Its a total no brainer. But this is the way Korg is- I can spend all day going over what Korg " should do ". I have accepted that this is poor use of time for me.
Totally agree with you on Guitar Center- take advantage of their promos and 36 month free financing. I don't get upset that they don't display many keyboards these days. They use to , some 10-20 yrs ago. I have excellent experience buying thru there tele sales[ 800 #] and their online store.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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