Korg Forums A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world. Moderated Independently. Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:03 pm Post subject: Kronos or Montage ?
I was at my local Guitar Center and played the Kronos and Montage. I don't get it. Everyone makes a big deal out of the Montage but to me it wasn't that great. I bought the 61 Kronos 2. It just came alive and I couldn't get enough. The Montage seemed very backward hard to figure out and had no sequencer or sampler. The Montage piano sounded over processed and unrealistic compared to the Kronos. I paid $2150 out the door new in box for the Kronos2 61 key and the Manager said it was discontinued that a new model was coming. I asked him if he was talking about a Kronos LS? He said no they just got orders from corporate to move them out with a 4-5 month deadline. So maybe next generation Kronos is coming summer Namm.
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Kronos or Montage ?
Kronos2ison wrote:
I was at my local Guitar Center and played the Kronos and Montage. I don't get it. Everyone makes a big deal out of the Montage but to me it wasn't that great. I bought the 61 Kronos 2. It just came alive and I couldn't get enough. The Montage seemed very backward hard to figure out and had no sequencer or sampler. The Montage piano sounded over processed and unrealistic compared to the Kronos. I paid $2150 out the door new in box for the Kronos2 61 key and the Manager said it was discontinued that a new model was coming. I asked him if he was talking about a Kronos LS? He said no they just got orders from corporate to move them out with a 4-5 month deadline. So maybe next generation Kronos is coming summer Namm.
Aha. That's a big deal if GC has their facts straight
That's the exact signal I have been talking about- a volume retailer would need to move out inventory due to a new product transition.
You got a great deal, congrats. Montage has some nice sounds but it's way overpriced IMO.
Same conclusion here. Bought a K2-88 last October, after trying the top products from all available brands in my area. At first, I had absolutely no bias nor preferences towards any brand in particular. I just tried each of them and concluded objectively from what I felt while playing.
In particular, I took great care to figure which one would give me the best interaction between keys and sound. And of course, I had to like the touch and sounds too, especially the acoustic pianos, since I mainly practice solo classical répertoire.
To me, the K2-88 immediately stood out in terms of action, sound realism and, once again, in terms of response between the keys and what you hear.
I really wanted to like the Montage-8, but ended up finding the acoustic pianos disappointing, especially as they offered no resonance (for a new 2016 product !), etc. I didn't really like the Montage-8 keyboard feel either. Better than on the Nord, but not for me, especially in terms of response with the sounds heard. The final choice was pretty easy to do.
For sure, the Kronos pianos don't sound like the real thing, but IMHO they are the best ones available from a hardware digital synth.
I got to try Montage only after buying Kronos, but i already knew i was going to get Kronos long before i got it. I broke myself into workstations on Korg platforms. So it would be a hassle to have to learn Roland or Yamaha, and just not worth it for the lesser control surface on Roland and the limited features on Montage.
Sounds on Kronos were in me and actually getting normalized to me after daily playing for a long while, then i went in to try Montage after already wearing off my initial awe for Kronos. Montage seemed mostly dull sounding and i went back home to Kronos ,happy. I always liked Yamaha EP's and some of their signature synth sounds and even liked the super knob, but kronos EP's can be worked into whatever, and super knob is not... well Karma is what made it for me.. Super knob just isn't doing much for me compared to having onboard karma.
I think i can even simulate super knob basic function of fading beteween sounds and rythm, using kronos controls and the beauty of Smooth Sound Transition feature. Maybe super knob could be set up to do some complex stuff aside from fading between sounds and rythm, but not enough to distract me from Kronos. Sorry.
Even as a second Keyboard, i would still choose either a second kronos or roland FA. Maybe a roland controller and DAW/VST.
If i ended up with Montage, it would be for really cheap or free or i had the means and space to get one of every major synth out there.
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 2433 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:01 am Post subject:
I would love to have a Montage. I think the synth sounds are very good. But that price, along with no sampler or sequencer? I know you can import samples, but I like to really tweak samples and have the option to route them through other synth engines. That brings me to another point - the FM doesn't interact or modulate the samples, like you can on the Kronos or SY99.
Other than those points, I was impressed by the sound of the Montage.
I have been following the history of the Kronos internals and I was shocked to see an updated main board, ssd, better touch screen and ddr3 ram in the Kronos 2. I couldnt get enough read in this forum. A lot of very useful information.
Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 239 Location: Netherlands
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:25 pm Post subject:
Mike Conway wrote:
I would love to have a Montage. I think the synth sounds are very good. But that price, along with no sampler or sequencer? I know you can import samples, but I like to really tweak samples and have the option to route them through other synth engines. That brings me to another point - the FM doesn't interact or modulate the samples, like you can on the Kronos or SY99.
Other than those points, I was impressed by the sound of the Montage.
The FM does interact or modulate the samples, Voices are parts now and they can interact with each other. _________________ In honor of the Groove and to all whom surrender to it, We say Thank You. And we take it Back.
Korg MW1, Casio PX5S & XW-G1, Roland JD-Xi,Yamaha Montage 7, Roland D-05, Bass Station II, Cubase Elements, Sonar X3 Producer.Handfull of IOs Apps iMPC,Animoog : Korg IMS-20,Module, IM1, Gadget etc.
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 2433 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:57 am Post subject:
Mr_SamDoogie wrote:
The FM does interact or modulate the samples, Voices are parts now and they can interact with each other.
So you're saying that audio or samples can be routed to the FM oscillators? Or are you misunderstanding me? I'm not talking about layering samples and FM in the same program.
I haven't read the Montage manual, but it is my understanding that it can not do that kind of modulation.
> FM doesn't interact or modulate the samples, like you can on the Kronos or SY99.
People talk about it, but can you show me one useful sound that was created by the advanced FM in the SY99?
I still have mine and I don't remember anyone doing any unbelievable sounds with it using advanced FM. Especially the free form algorithms.
It could be argued that the sequenced modulation of the Montage and other improvements has way more impact over sound creation that the "advanced" FM they used before in the SY99. _________________ Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.
I have a couple other old examples. 25 years ago, ROM was at such a premium that you didn't see different velocity layers like you have now. It was one multisample and you had to make that sound expressive with modulation. In a lot of cases (sampled glissandos, trills, etc.) you still only have one multisample of it.
The SY99 uses FM sample distortion on a lot of trumpet and sax sounds, to add "bark" to the attack. (Around that time, the Korg O1W countered the technique by using waveshaper samples in the higher velocities.) Some of these sound quite natural and you don't even realize that this method is being used. In other words, you've heard it, if you've played that keyboard.
I also like to have distortion attack strings to make it sound like they were bowing harder. I also ran this 6 string guitar through the FM to punch it up.
In a cool twist, the AWM waveform could be the FM signal. This harmonica sound has no samples, but the FM is acting as the sample, in addition to the FM engine. The AWM waveform (FM) could be run through it's own filters and also through the filters in the FM engines. They were truly interactive with each other.
Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 3092 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject:
I'm excited to see if there really is going to be a new bigger and better Kronos. I'm still using and learning my old original one. Don't see a need to replace her yet but of course we're all gear hounds! _________________ If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!
Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 239 Location: Netherlands
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject:
Mike Conway wrote:
Mr_SamDoogie wrote:
The FM does interact or modulate the samples, Voices are parts now and they can interact with each other.
So you're saying that audio or samples can be routed to the FM oscillators? Or are you misunderstanding me? I'm not talking about layering samples and FM in the same program.
I haven't read the Montage manual, but it is my understanding that it can not do that kind of modulation.
Routing so far I don't know about I recently learned that the influence of arpeggio can be routed into certain operators capable of modulating the FM thus can be modulate for one, As that samples can also have that influence to those certain operators also. There an extended list of parameters.
You have to excuse me I'm not so verse into FM or the FM-X there a depth to it which is a bit beyond me at the moment I'm just a beginner .
From which I understand what Bad Mister wrote, The part where FM does modulation with AWM2 goes beyond what the SY99 did. On the Montage.
That also include the depth with the envelope follower as well what motion sequence does with the parts and the full eight fm algorithms applicable to the parts when using them to modulate timbre for instance there pretty complicated routing going on there to me is boggling.
What have been showed of the montage doesn't really do it justice as of yet to show what FM-X and AWM2 can do all together and with external modulation sources. Its the region for savvy sound designers daring to program the heck out of it I can only hope what someone else see it to be heard.
Again you have to excuse me I'm not the one to talk the talk cause FM is way to deep I'm trying to give a bit of whats in there as I'm working to discover in free time. _________________ In honor of the Groove and to all whom surrender to it, We say Thank You. And we take it Back.
Korg MW1, Casio PX5S & XW-G1, Roland JD-Xi,Yamaha Montage 7, Roland D-05, Bass Station II, Cubase Elements, Sonar X3 Producer.Handfull of IOs Apps iMPC,Animoog : Korg IMS-20,Module, IM1, Gadget etc.
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 2433 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject:
Mr_SamDoogie wrote:
Again you have to excuse me I'm not the one to talk the talk cause FM is way to deep I'm trying to give a bit of whats in there as I'm working to discover in free time.
Yeah, it's all good. I would love to have a go with the FM-X. I was huge into Yamaha - had the DX7, TX816, SY77. I still have two Yamaha TX16Ws and an A 5000 sampler, the SY99, and SPX900.
I was able to resist the Motif line, but the Montage with its 128 poly FM-X engine sounded gorgeous. I think it's under-rated as a synth, and the price, no sequencer, sampler, etc. are deterring a lot of people from from a great piece of gear.
I remember a game I use to play unreall tournament felt a lot like this thread. Like when you stole an enemies vehicle. You would here a voice say.. Hi Jacked.. lol What are you guys even talking about? Does the Yamaha have a FM radio built in?
Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 3092 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:48 pm Post subject:
Kronos2ison wrote:
I remember a game I use to play unreall tournament felt a lot like this thread. Like when you stole an enemies vehicle. You would here a voice say.. Hi Jacked.. lol What are you guys even talking about? Does the Yamaha have a FM radio built in?
Now that's what I call funny!
Nope, FM, short for frequency Modulation is a kind of synthesis. There are a lot of different kinds of synthesis people use to make sounds. FM is cool but I found it very difficult to figure out how to use. I prefer the old style subtractive synthesis. That's because I'm old and senile!
Just in case you didn't know. Some people are really good at working with it but not me. _________________ If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!
All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Next
Page 1 of 7
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
.