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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:59 am Post subject: |
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wma wrote: | my hope from korg is a heigh-end portable expandable performace stnth/workstation with the keybed used with pa900/pa3xLe with aftertouch and with the ribbon controller & the vector stik from the kronos yet to be portable as the krome and affordable around the 2000usd at most
Istead of the sound ebgine used with the krome replace it with hd-1 and offer a good amount of storage to add our own samples/packs to expand it as we like and let it have 8 knobs istead of 4 and enhance it with high-end effects and DACs to let it sound better than the current kronos |
Sound better then the Kronos? At half the price?
That sounds highly illogical |
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Sharp Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Bachus wrote: | ask yourself how much would you pay for an extra synth engine inside your current synth?
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Not much at all given how cheap premimum VST's are.
Just my 2 cents.
Sharp. |
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wma Full Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2013 Posts: 127
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Bachus wrote: | wma wrote: | my hope from korg is a heigh-end portable expandable performace stnth/workstation with the keybed used with pa900/pa3xLe with aftertouch and with the ribbon controller & the vector stik from the kronos yet to be portable as the krome and affordable around the 2000usd at most
Istead of the sound ebgine used with the krome replace it with hd-1 and offer a good amount of storage to add our own samples/packs to expand it as we like and let it have 8 knobs istead of 4 and enhance it with high-end effects and DACs to let it sound better than the current kronos |
Sound better then the Kronos? At half the price?
That sounds highly illogical |
not half the price; it's only 1k less.
i eliminated from the kronos the sliders, and downgraded the display as i said portable as the krome, i'm not asking for all the integrated audio interface, and not asking for all the sound engines and the available flash storage amount, and i downgraded the keybed and not asking for the karma and not asking to be in a metal enclosure/case
with respect to 'Sound better then the Kronos', actually the kronos is at its end mage in few months or around a year and expected for the successor to sound way better than the kronos
i prefer high-end effects & sound-quality over sequencer-like features |
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BasariStudios Approved Merchant
Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 6510 Location: NYC, USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Bachus wrote: | ask yourself how much would you pay for an extra synth engine inside your current synth? |
Maybe nothing at all...i will not be paying 399$ for an Engine in Kronos when
for 99$ i can get something like Diva that kills ANY Analog on the Kronos as it is now. _________________ http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium. |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:57 pm Post subject: UltraKronos |
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Outside of Time!
The KORG UltraKronos has 16 synthesis engines, including updates to the magnificent sonic tools of the Kronos 2. The UltraKronos has three separate quarter inch L/R stereo audio outputs, but also acts as a USB interface that will split out a full 64 channels of sound.
64 channels? Yes! 32 audio, and 32 synthesised channels, with at least 160 note polyphony (up to over 500). Every audio channel has 5 insert effect slots, then there are 5 master send slots, and 2 total effects slots. All audio is recorded at 24 bits, 192KHz resolution for dazzling clarity and amazing remix potential.
The UltraKronos accommodates microSDXC cards for massive capacity in a tiny format, two MIDI out, two MIDI thru and two MIDI in interfaces, as well as a host USB channel for additional MIDI controllers and USB storage.
The UltraKronos will be available this coming year, in four models: 88 key, 73 key, 61 key and 88 minikeys. All keyboards will feature velocity on note on and note off, channel and polyphonic aftertouch, and connections for four switch and expression pedals.
Pst, the minikey version will cost $500 less than the other cheapest ... |
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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Sharp wrote: | Bachus wrote: | ask yourself how much would you pay for an extra synth engine inside your current synth?
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Not much at all given how cheap premimum VST's are.
Just my 2 cents.
Sharp. |
If Korg Creates a Kronos follow up, where you can imbed VSTīs then they will outsell Yamaha and others even more... Having omnisphere and keyscape inside a hardware instrument would be so nice... |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Bachus wrote: | Sharp wrote: | Bachus wrote: | ask yourself how much would you pay for an extra synth engine inside your current synth?
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Not much at all given how cheap premimum VST's are.
Just my 2 cents.
Sharp. |
If Korg Creates a Kronos follow up, where you can imbed VSTīs then they will outsell Yamaha and others even more... Having omnisphere and keyscape inside a hardware instrument would be so nice... |
Is this the open source discussion ? Korg is not interested in having 3rd parties
like this inside the Kronos _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Jan1 Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 765
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure which way NAMM will go; it could turn out to be one of those trade shows we have seen all too often in the past years (of very little interest), or it just might feature a couple of really interesting gems.
AKAI probably will introduce the much anticipated MPC Live and MPCX, perhaps Roland will finally show the world there was truth to the rumor concerning a sampling workstation, and KORG may have a new workstation waiting in the wings, not a replacement of the KRONOS but rather a follow up to the KROME series, or maybe positioned between the current KROME and KRONOS.
Roland might just come up with a new stage piano as well, and who knows whether or not they finally decided to marry the V-synth with the workstation concept.
If all this comes to pass it will turn out to be an interesting NAMM, but when I look back at the past NAMM events I am not counting on it.
One thing I keep wishing for is that the big three will focus on quality keybeds with more real time control options.
After all, synthesizers and the likes are meant to be played, and it really makes a big difference what sort of keybed you have under your fingers as well as the number of options on that keybed to influence the sound and the expressiveness (such as through aftertouch, sideways motion, traveling up and down a key).
A keybed is not just about 'inputting notes', quite the contrary... |
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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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GregC wrote: | Bachus wrote: | Sharp wrote: | Bachus wrote: | ask yourself how much would you pay for an extra synth engine inside your current synth?
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Not much at all given how cheap premimum VST's are.
Just my 2 cents.
Sharp. |
If Korg Creates a Kronos follow up, where you can imbed VSTīs then they will outsell Yamaha and others even more... Having omnisphere and keyscape inside a hardware instrument would be so nice... |
Is this the open source discussion ? Korg is not interested in having 3rd parties
like this inside the Kronos |
In the end what sells is where potential buyers are interested in.... and not what developers think brings them the most money...
Currently Korg is king of the field, so i agree with their buisenessplan of not adding a feature like this, from a buisenessplan pov.. but if others create an instrument that does, Korg has a challenge....
In the end, i think there wikk be a software company, that creates a piece of hardware with PC sound generation that will make the hardware buiseness realise as struck by lightning that they are at a lost... |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Bachus wrote: | GregC wrote: | Bachus wrote: | Sharp wrote: | Bachus wrote: | ask yourself how much would you pay for an extra synth engine inside your current synth?
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Not much at all given how cheap premimum VST's are.
Just my 2 cents.
Sharp. |
If Korg Creates a Kronos follow up, where you can imbed VSTīs then they will outsell Yamaha and others even more... Having omnisphere and keyscape inside a hardware instrument would be so nice... |
Is this the open source discussion ? Korg is not interested in having 3rd parties
like this inside the Kronos |
In the end what sells is where potential buyers are interested in.... and not what developers think brings them the most money...
Currently Korg is king of the field, so i agree with their buisenessplan of not adding a feature like this, from a buisenessplan pov.. but if others create an instrument that does, Korg has a challenge....
In the end, i think there wikk be a software company, that creates a piece of hardware with PC sound generation that will make the hardware buiseness realise as struck by lightning that they are at a lost... |
I see it somewhat differently. You are hoping that Korg(one day) will open their OS to allow hosting of great software products ? Like Omnisphere or Keyscape ?
BTW, I like Keyscape - its a great product IMO.
However, I think if a software developer like Spectrasonics is interested in the Korg Kronos sample lib platform, they can decide if the ROI/development cost/additional sales makes a project worthwhile- to roll into Korg's 3rd party
software developer platform.
Of course, if Spectrasonics is highly satisfied with sales, they may not have a need. However, software does have a shelf life.
admittedly, this is not a long term strategy. More of an opportunity for a Software developer to have access to +10,000 Kronos owners.
I don't know if a Kronos Keyscape would increase Kronos sales by 20% or some large figure. It would make Kronos more attractive.
I also think, if it makes sense, for a co like Spectrasonics to get involved with Korg early on the new product development cycle. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:18 am Post subject: |
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KORG Rack-n-Roll
Built in cooperation with Gator, a standard rack in a rugged, rolling case. Built for serious synthesists! There's room for a mixer on top, and folding arms that will accept a full 88 key master keyboard. Below, there is room for plenty of rackable gear - and now KORG has a set of rack ears for a wide variety of equipment!
Whether your preference is desktop devices, modular synthesis or even just being a solo artist with the backing of KORG's synthesis power, now you're equipped to take a full show on the road. As an added bonus, there's capacity in the bottom for a pair of heavy duty gel cel batteries to keep things booming when the power fails. When the gig is over, just close the doors, lock it shut and roll it into your touring van. |
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Kevin Nolan Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 2524 Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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BasariStudios wrote: | Bachus wrote: | ask yourself how much would you pay for an extra synth engine inside your current synth? |
Maybe nothing at all...i will not be paying 399$ for an Engine in Kronos when
for 99$ i can get something like Diva that kills ANY Analog on the Kronos as it is now. |
Diva is good - but - if you want price / performance, what about Logic Pro's "Retro" which is an absolutely superlative plugin and costs nothing more than the DAW. I'm sure you could come up with many other cost effective examples...
But that's not the point. Kronos offers 9 discretely different engines, coving all the bases with quality and frankly unparalleled in a hardware device still to this day.
But even that's not the main point to Kronos - rather what we tend to alost forget and take for granted:
- Multiple synth engines
- Huge polyphony at almost zero latency
- True polyphonic architecture within each synth engine (meaning hundreds of LFO's, Step Sequencers and so on running under potential independent control on a per voice basis)
- Karma, Wave sequencing, Vector synthesis....
- the best hardware synthesizer Operating System and File system there is
- Hardware control surface and large screen
It's the overall package. As I'm sure many are sick of me reminding you - Kronos came from Korg's most sophisticated R&D era ever that lead to OAYAS, and that's what you get in Kronos, now cheaper than ever before in Kronos LS (which is excellent to offer most especially for Organ players (except for dropping aftertouch (why Krog???))).
So as cheap as a plugin can be - it's just a different beast. You cannot compare a $99 plugin to such an astounding workstation; and it really is taking it for granted to do so - the route to "Kronos" has been a more than 10 year development cycle involving the best Korg can do - and is to this moment the most sophisticated workstation ever conceived. It's worth the asking price - and more - I'm an OASYS owner and paid full price for mine and still feel like I got a really good deal, I assure you.
Back on subject - minikeys aside (and I'll keep raising it till Korg start to use normal keys again. Their 'synths' and 'control surfaces' are great, their keyboards are - frankly a mystery (to me) ... ) - surely Korg have done more than enough 'synth' wise in recent months to keep everyone happy and on their toes ?? Surely this NAMM will be a consolidation / show case of all of their recent releases |
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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Kevin Nolan wrote: | BasariStudios wrote: | Bachus wrote: | ask yourself how much would you pay for an extra synth engine inside your current synth? |
Maybe nothing at all...i will not be paying 399$ for an Engine in Kronos when
for 99$ i can get something like Diva that kills ANY Analog on the Kronos as it is now. |
Diva is good - but - if you want price / performance, what about Logic Pro's "Retro" which is an absolutely superlative plugin and costs nothing more than the DAW. I'm sure you could come up with many other cost effective examples...
But that's not the point. Kronos offers 9 discretely different engines, coving all the bases with quality and frankly unparalleled in a hardware device still to this day.
But even that's not the main point to Kronos - rather what we tend to alost forget and take for granted:
- Multiple synth engines
- Huge polyphony at almost zero latency
- True polyphonic architecture within each synth engine (meaning hundreds of LFO's, Step Sequencers and so on running under potential independent control on a per voice basis)
- Karma, Wave sequencing, Vector synthesis....
- the best hardware synthesizer Operating System and File system there is
- Hardware control surface and large screen
It's the overall package. As I'm sure many are sick of me reminding you - Kronos came from Korg's most sophisticated R&D era ever that lead to OAYAS, and that's what you get in Kronos, now cheaper than ever before in Kronos LS (which is excellent to offer most especially for Organ players (except for dropping aftertouch (why Krog???))).
So as cheap as a plugin can be - it's just a different beast. You cannot compare a $99 plugin to such an astounding workstation; and it really is taking it for granted to do so - the route to "Kronos" has been a more than 10 year development cycle involving the best Korg can do - and is to this moment the most sophisticated workstation ever conceived. It's worth the asking price - and more - I'm an OASYS owner and paid full price for mine and still feel like I got a really good deal, I assure you.
Back on subject - minikeys aside (and I'll keep raising it till Korg start to use normal keys again. Their 'synths' and 'control surfaces' are great, their keyboards are - frankly a mystery (to me) ... ) - surely Korg have done more than enough 'synth' wise in recent months to keep everyone happy and on their toes ?? Surely this NAMM will be a consolidation / show case of all of their recent releases |
I neither expect anything new from Korg ...
Yet, there are definately some new engines, or improvements to current engines i would welcome in a future Kronos replacement/upgrade... Or maybe a step back to the open system as we know from the OASYS... an OASYS2, but not at the same price of the first one.. |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 9451 Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Bachus"][quote="Kevin Nolan"][quote="BasariStudios"] Bachus wrote: |
I neither expect anything new from Korg ...
Yet, there are definately some new engines, or improvements to current engines i would welcome in a future Kronos replacement/upgrade... Or maybe a step back to the open system as we know from the OASYS... an OASYS2, but not at the same price of the first one.. |
as posted before, I think there are many K2's at retail and prices are still holding up. That tells me we will not see a Kronos replacement over the next 90 days and longer.
Other posters have asserted that Korg should have an ' open system ' with their next Kronos. Or that its ' better for Korg' .
I have been unable to persuade anyone to explain the pro's and con's of Korg doing so. To make a business case so to speak.
I think organized discussions are more interesting. We would have to be clear on what ' open platform' is or what 'open system ' is. Not everyone has the same knowledge on terminology. _________________ Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:05 am Post subject: |
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To a large extent, musical production tools are open systems - and they have to be.
No, that doesn't mean that you necessarily have total access to the internals of a Kronos (unless you're a particularly devoted reverse engineer) but in the sense, musically speaking, that above a certain level of abstraction, you have essentially total control over what you do with it, and what you do with its products.
If KORG (or any of their competition) were to come up with a system where patches were opaque, couldn't be modified, or they used a total replacement for MIDI such that you could only use their gear, in their way, to produce music, that would be closed.
But that's not what we have. I can take patches on KORG systems apart, study them, reconfigure them (and get documentation on how to do so straight from KORG, by the way), apply them, document them, tell others how to duplicate them, and then take the sounds that I made and record them and put them out through a Yamaha mixer, a Roland speaker, or whatever.
Open interfaces are the most important aspect of openness, in tools, and in the music world we pretty much that that.
Is it as open as a breadboard and a box of components? Or is a Kronos presented as a general purpose computer? Well, no.
But I think that in context, the concept of openness already applies beautifully.
Another speculation:
The KORG MIDIMixer! Automate all your mixing parameters, including channel volume, panning, mute and solo settings, FX sends, EQ and more with regular MIDI signals! It also acts as a MIDI router, and puts out a rock solid clock signal! |
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