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Think Kronos has some time left?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wma wrote:
GregC wrote:
wma wrote:
GregC wrote:
wma wrote:
a perfornace synth or lite-featured workstation that's tended for performance and midi control and interacts/integrates very well with korg gadget and their synth modules 'volca series' and also ableton live w/ ableton link would be a very nice idea and can act as an advanced workstation


So you want an ' all things for all people ' w/s at a 'good ' price with a high quality keyboard.

I don't know if Korg or other cos look at product that way.

The Gadget is sort of cool, especially if you like electronica. But the Kronos is numerous times more powerful and the quality is pro level.

Gadget makes sense as its designed for the iPad, etc. For $39, its fun. It gets people into Korg products and technology.



i want something very good in quality and very close to a flagship yet affordable and not over rated & over priced



not following you. Are you saying its your opinion the Kronos is over rated and over priced ? Or what exactly are you pointing to ?


not much, mostly the yamaha montage specially when you choose the larger ones; the kronos when compared to a daw + virtual instruments should know it massive amount of features should not let the kronos cost like and to be honest its very good by not superior specially when it comes to how it sounds with respect to other synths & instruments and VSTs that cost fractions its cost - korg should udate their sampe library and look after the digital converters they use


Sure, there are several things korg could do. It will cost. That's the way the world turns. There are some VIs I like. But that's a different platform. I don't know if it's reasonable for korg to match all these different options.
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JPROBERTLA
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:51 pm    Post subject: Waiting and Hoping Reply with quote

As I have said before, Korg doesn't have to do anything right now because no other single keyboard does all what the Kronos can do. The fact that its 5 years old however would give me pause with regard to buying another one (had K61 for 3 years and now have K288) because I can't rule out the possibility of a successor in the near future.

Korg does seem committed to the workstation concept and has sold many Kronos. I would suspect they have been developing a successor for some time now and are waiting for the right time to release it. If Montage was a workstation instead of what is it is, the successor probably would have be (at least) announced at NAMM 2017.

The Kronos concept is sound and well received. Many on this forum have recommended a vast array of improvements. If Korg is listening, which I believe they are, then they know that a Kronos successor with many of these improvements will be well received by current Kronos users and probably many more tired of waiting for their preferred brand to introduce a serious competitor.

When Korg believes the time is right we will all find out. I am waiting and hoping for something at NAMM 2017. If not, I reset the clock and wait for NAMM 2018. Surely by then what they have been working on will need to become a reality before it becomes obsolete.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Waiting and Hoping Reply with quote

JPROBERTLA wrote:
As I have said before, Korg doesn't have to do anything right now because no other single keyboard does all what the Kronos can do. The fact that its 5 years old however would give me pause with regard to buying another one (had K61 for 3 years and now have K288) because I can't rule out the possibility of a successor in the near future.

Korg does seem committed to the workstation concept and has sold many Kronos. I would suspect they have been developing a successor for some time now and are "waiting for the right time " to release it. If Montage was a workstation instead of what is it is, the successor probably would have be (at least) announced at NAMM 2017.

The Kronos concept is sound and well received. Many on this forum have recommended a vast array of improvements. If Korg is listening, which I believe they are, then they know that a Kronos successor with many of these improvements will be well received by current Kronos users and probably many more tired of waiting for their preferred brand to introduce a serious competitor.

When Korg believes the time is right we will all find out. I am waiting and hoping for something at NAMM 2017. If not, I reset the clock and wait for NAMM 2018. Surely by then what they have been working on will need to become a reality before it becomes obsolete.


all your points are solid.

I took the liberty of adding quote marks to "waiting for the right time " .

Because I don't agree with so called 'market timing ' and that " Korg does not have to do anything in the next few months because there is no competition.

There is always competition for a keyboardists annual budget and then some.

For example, I am ready to go over to VI's , a new macbook Pro, etc, etc by January. Thats roughly $3000. And when I commit to that , and enjoy that for 6 months or a year, I might be very unlikely to get a W/s successor in 2018.

I am using myself as an example. Of course, I would be glad to evaluate a new W/s for my song creation needs if Korg introduced something by Jan 2017.

I would like to think Korg looks ahead vs ' reacting '.

Electronics co's have traditionally driven the market with exciting new products and they did not necessarily wait around because of what I call ' market timing '
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Electronics co's have traditionally driven the market with exciting new products and they did not necessarily wait around because of what I call ' market timing '

This seems to be quite true but I think that with Korg, unless they see an absolute need to totally replace the Kronos, they will wait.

Since the Kronos was first introduced, they've some up with quite a few cool and interesting smaller synths. I think that they are going to stick with this pattern for a couple more years. I don't see any of the other major players coming close to the Kronos at all. Kronos has this market completely sewn up. So why bother?

That's only my opinion for what it's worth and of course, I could be totally wrong too.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeremykeys wrote:
'Electronics co's have traditionally driven the market with exciting new products and they did not necessarily wait around because of what I call ' market timing '

This seems to be quite true but I think that with Korg, unless they see an absolute need to totally replace the Kronos, they will wait.

Since the Kronos was first introduced, they've some up with quite a few cool and interesting smaller synths. I think that they are going to stick with this pattern for a couple more years. I don't see any of the other major players coming close to the Kronos at all. Kronos has this market completely sewn up. So why bother?

That's only my opinion for what it's worth and of course, I could be totally wrong too.


I hear that. A dozen or so folks also say ( this is my paraphrase) that Korg is a careful, conservatively run electronics cos. Lets call that the " why should they/they don't have to " side of the debate.

Sure, they are doing a $39 Gadget , a $99 iPlug and other low cost/ low price boards.

I hope they sell a thousand or 2 thousand of each.

But I don't see/hear any of that as uber Pro caliber as the Kronos.

And if you look at Korg as a co they have always manufactured lots of small low price items. I haven't added up their entire catalog, but I guess they offer 300-400 items mostly under $150.

So I don't buy in that they should play in the low price market and be happy.
There is actually a lot of competition with many of these items.

I have maintained that a co like Korg should take advantage of a good economy ( here in the US) or we can call it a stable economy. Positive economic circumstances is ideal when offering a luxury product, lets say a new model $4000 w/s. When the economy is in recession, the circumstances are then adverse for a $4000 luxury product.

My other point is that its much easier to predict the next 3-6 months than predict 15-21 months out.

Finally, I ask you. Korg launches a cool as helx w/s $4000 this January. Its near perfection in every way. It sounds fabulous.

Are you going to place your order in February ? ( I would)
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wma wrote:
i want something very good in quality and very close to a flagship yet affordable and not over rated & over priced

For workstations competition has moved from the $3000-4000 price range to the $1000-2000 range, and I think that is where you can expect the biggest steps forward in terms of 'bang for the buck'.
Workstations traditionally have been a very important part of the instruments KORG builds, and I believe they will have something to offer early next year, although I think it will be something in the mid-range.
Pricewise there's a big gap between the current mid- and high-end range, and only Kurzweil has a workstation in the $2000-3000 area, so who knows?
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adamburgess
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope it has some time left. Having had to sell my 'classic' Kronos 61 last year - I'm gonna grab a Kronos 2 73 next week. Tried all kinds of things and nothing comes close. I'm even selling my, admittedly well-gigged, Stage 2 88 to go toward the cost. I love the Nord - I want to have both again but going Kronos all-in.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:

1)For workstations competition has moved from the $3000-4000 price range to the $1000-2000 range, and I think that is where you can expect the biggest steps forward in terms of 'bang for the buck'.
Workstations traditionally have been a very important part of the instruments KORG builds, and I believe they will have something to offer early next year, although I think it will be something in the mid-range.
Pricewise there's a big gap between the current mid- and high-end range, and only Kurzweil has a workstation in the $2000-3000 area, so who knows?


1) W/s competition in the $1000-$2000 range ?

I think you are referring to Krome and Moxf ? Or whatever variation of the Motif.

So you believe that korg will 'follow ' that trend ?

Maybe you can clarify further. Less expensive and stripped down features on a +$1000 W/s does not sound exciting to me.
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
Jan1 wrote:

1)For workstations competition has moved from the $3000-4000 price range to the $1000-2000 range, and I think that is where you can expect the biggest steps forward in terms of 'bang for the buck'.
Workstations traditionally have been a very important part of the instruments KORG builds, and I believe they will have something to offer early next year, although I think it will be something in the mid-range.
Pricewise there's a big gap between the current mid- and high-end range, and only Kurzweil has a workstation in the $2000-3000 area, so who knows?


1) W/s competition in the $1000-$2000 range ?

I think you are referring to Krome and Moxf ? Or whatever variation of the Motif.

So you believe that korg will 'follow ' that trend ?

Maybe you can clarify further. Less expensive and stripped down features on a +$1000 W/s does not sound exciting to me.

You may have the money to purchase an expensive workstation, and I certainly would rather have a more expensive KRONOS over a severely stripped down KROME or FA, but there are plenty of other musicians who simply cannot afford to pay $4000 for a state of the art workstation, plus there are those who feel the KRONOS is too complex and too much for them.
The $1000-2000 segment consists of those groups, and it would be foolish for KORG to hand over their share in that range to others by leaving the KROME for what it is while Yamaha and Roland move forward.
So far there are three contenders in that range, and I suspect Yamaha will soon come up with a follow up to the MOXF which will fuel the fire in terms of more features for less money.

I am not suggesting that KORG will leave the high end workstation market, but at the moment the KRONOS still sells very well (right now it is at number two in the Thomann sales rank after the KROSS), and there is no competition whatsoever, while in the mid-range KROME is aging in a market where both Roland and Yamaha are active.
As I wrote in another thread, I would love to be wrong about this and have KORG surprise us with a new top of the line workstation in January, but I honestly don't think it will happen.
IMO it will be 2018 at the earliest, maybe 2019 if WWIII does not happen.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
GregC wrote:
Jan1 wrote:

1)For workstations competition has moved from the $3000-4000 price range to the $1000-2000 range, and I think that is where you can expect the biggest steps forward in terms of 'bang for the buck'.
Workstations traditionally have been a very important part of the instruments KORG builds, and I believe they will have something to offer early next year, although I think it will be something in the mid-range.
Pricewise there's a big gap between the current mid- and high-end range, and only Kurzweil has a workstation in the $2000-3000 area, so who knows?


1) W/s competition in the $1000-$2000 range ?

I think you are referring to Krome and Moxf ? Or whatever variation of the Motif.

So you believe that korg will 'follow ' that trend ?

Maybe you can clarify further. Less expensive and stripped down features on a +$1000 W/s does not sound exciting to me.


1)You may have the money to purchase an expensive workstation, and I certainly would rather have a more expensive KRONOS over a severely stripped down KROME or FA, but there are plenty of other musicians who simply cannot afford to pay $4000 for a state of the art workstation,
2)plus there are those who feel the KRONOS is too complex and too much for them.
3)The $1000-2000 segment consists of those groups, and it would be foolish for KORG to hand over their share in that range to others by leaving the KROME for what it is while Yamaha and Roland move forward.
So far there are three contenders in that range, and I suspect Yamaha will soon come up with a follow up to the MOXF which will fuel the fire in terms of more features for less money.

I am not suggesting that KORG will leave the high end workstation market, but at the moment the KRONOS still sells very well (right now it is at number two in the Thomann sales rank after the KROSS), and there is no competition whatsoever, while in the mid-range KROME is aging in a market where both Roland and Yamaha are active.
As I wrote in another thread, I would love to be wrong about this and have KORG surprise us with a new top of the line workstation in January, but I honestly don't think it will happen.
IMO it will be 2018 at the earliest, maybe 2019 if WWIII does not happen.


Each ' country ' has its own MSRP due to a variety of factors.

I recall paying $3000 here in the US over 5 years ago. Its not that I am rolling in money, but I sold a XS Motif, Rd700GX1, and an M3M and an Extreme 76 to easily fund my $3000 purchase.

I understood at that time, or felt confident , that I should simplify my rig, in that the Kronos could do it all, or 97% of it, to split hairs.

Plus credit and 6 month financing is fairly easy to come by.

So each Korg customer has different circumstances to work with. Plus I have not purchased anything of music instrument significance in 5 yrs.

I think Kronos owners think ( or could if they choose) long term. I tend to plan my purchasing over years vs spontaneous " I gotta have that now ".

so sure, Korg can introduce a more budget Kronos Junior for $1500 in 2017 and that would not bother me. Korg knows how to make money and they know what the market will potentially like. But, as you pointed out, there is or will be competition for that $1500. So its hardly a slam dunk for Korg.

As in all things, you get what you pay for. After 5 years I am most interested in a premier W/s or flagship, whatever one calls it. I would consider that exciting news.
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fcoulter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
the KRONOS still sells very well (right now it is at number two in the Thomann sales rank after the KROSS)


Never heard of the Thomann sales rankings. Is this a ranking of ALL keyboards, or just a selection? (I'm not doubting the number, just want to understand the context.)
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fcoulter wrote:
Jan1 wrote:
the KRONOS still sells very well (right now it is at number two in the Thomann sales rank after the KROSS)


Never heard of the Thomann sales rankings. Is this a ranking of ALL keyboards, or just a selection? (I'm not doubting the number, just want to understand the context.)

It's a sales ranking per category, in case of workstations it looks like this.
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GregC
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
fcoulter wrote:
Jan1 wrote:
the KRONOS still sells very well (right now it is at number two in the Thomann sales rank after the KROSS)


Never heard of the Thomann sales rankings. Is this a ranking of ALL keyboards, or just a selection? (I'm not doubting the number, just want to understand the context.)

It's a sales ranking per category, in case of workstations it looks like this.


Since we are in the US, we are not familiar with Thomann

Clarify what countries they cover

Thanks
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fcoulter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
fcoulter wrote:
Jan1 wrote:
the KRONOS still sells very well (right now it is at number two in the Thomann sales rank after the KROSS)


Never heard of the Thomann sales rankings. Is this a ranking of ALL keyboards, or just a selection? (I'm not doubting the number, just want to understand the context.)

It's a sales ranking per category, in case of workstations it looks like this.


Wow. I would have thought Yamaha would have ranked higher than that. Interesting.
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BobTheDog
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
Jan1 wrote:
fcoulter wrote:
Jan1 wrote:
the KRONOS still sells very well (right now it is at number two in the Thomann sales rank after the KROSS)


Never heard of the Thomann sales rankings. Is this a ranking of ALL keyboards, or just a selection? (I'm not doubting the number, just want to understand the context.)

It's a sales ranking per category, in case of workstations it looks like this.


Since we are in the US, we are not familiar with Thomann

Clarify what countries they cover

Thanks


Europe really (18 country based websites), but they sell to anywhere in the world.
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