 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
street
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2016
Posts: 69
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:42 pm Post subject: Custom Karma GEs |
 |
|
First, I must say this.
It's a bit frustrating that in order to record my own Karma GE I have to buy external software for almost $200.
The Kronos is as good as a PC in many respects.
With Motif, I can quickly record let's say a bassline, make an arp out of it and use it quickly on the go.
Then I can record a synth comp to another arp and play along with both of them together - as transposable arpeggios.
Why did Korg handicap Kronos in such a way? Is it just to squeeze extra $200 from customers that bought an already expansive piece of gear?
On another note, is there any place where I can find some cool new user Karma GEs to load into my Kronos? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jeebustrain
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1284
Location: In a Roger Dean painting
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Karma GEs |
|
|
| street wrote: | First, I must say this.
It's a bit frustrating that in order to record my own Karma GE I have to buy external software for almost $200.
The Kronos is as good as a PC in many respects.
With Motif, I can quickly record let's say a bassline, make an arp out of it and use it quickly on the go.
Then I can record a synth comp to another arp and play along with both of them together - as transposable arpeggios.
Why did Korg handicap Kronos in such a way? Is it just to squeeze extra $200 from customers that bought an already expansive piece of gear?
On another note, is there any place where I can find some cool new user Karma GEs to load into my Kronos? |
the Karma software is not sold by Korg - it's from Stephen Kay, the original developer of Karma (of which Korg Licenses for use in the Kronos). I don't believe Korg gets any proceeds of those sales. While I can't tell you the exact reason why certain bits of functionality were not included (because I don't know) inside the Kronos, I can venture a guess that it could have been weighing the development cost of implementation inside the Kronos vs the amount of people expected to actually use it made it unattractive. One thing to note is that the software in the Kronos is Karma 2 and the software on Stephen's site is Karma 3.
One thing worth noting is that Stephen usually runs a sale (usually around black friday/xmas time) where he reduces the price of the Karma software. If you're not in a huge rush, it might be worth waiting to see if that comes around this year.
_________________
::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::
My Music |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pedro5
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 1150
Location: Coventry UK.
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There are free ones available...
http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/kronos.html
It will be well worth visiting other parts of the Karma site....some interesting stuff to be found.
Bought the software about three years ago at today's price !(Which I personally found to be affordable..).
Which means that Stephen is very fair with maintaining cost to "new" users.(Definitely not profit-making).
He is constantly updating the various os releases as they emerge so that users can continue with his software etc.
Also bought all the sets and am very pleased with most of them.
Must admit I haven't used the software...yet,but it's a project for the future that will bring further benefit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
amit
Approved Merchant
Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 825
Location: New Delhi, India
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You can use the step sequencer or wave sequencing or even record the pattern as RPPR and use that.
The Karma Software is a separate product in itself sold by Karma -Lab the inventors of Karma Engine.
_________________
DX7-MOD-7 Patches | Korg Related Content
iPad Pro 12.9,MBP
Korg (Kronos 2, PA600,WavestateVolcaFM), Moog Subsequent 37, Waldorf Pulse 2, ,Novation (Peak, Circuit), Roland GR55, Roli Rise 49, Boog Model D Novation Sl 49, Launchpad Pro, Ableton Push 2 + Suite,Yamaha DTX Multi 12, Akai EWI USB, Nano key Studio, Arturia(BeatStep Pro,DrumBrute,Keystep),StryMon(Big Sky,Timeline), Mooer Ocean Machine, Zoom MS-70CDR,MXR Carbon Copy Deluxe, MicroKontrol,KLC, Korg DS-1H, Korg EXP-2,Roland DP-10, Nanopad 2, TEcontrol BBC2, Soundcraft Signatrure 22 MTK, Yamaha MG10XU,UltraG DI,Eris E5 .. List |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Karma GEs |
|
|
| street wrote: | First, I must say this.
It's a bit frustrating that in order to record my own Karma GE I have to buy external software for almost $200.
The Kronos is as good as a PC in many respects.
With Motif, I can quickly record let's say a bassline, make an arp out of it and use it quickly on the go.
Then I can record a synth comp to another arp and play along with both of them together - as transposable arpeggios.
Why did Korg handicap Kronos in such a way? Is it just to squeeze extra $200 from customers that bought an already expansive piece of gear?
On another note, is there any place where I can find some cool new user Karma GEs to load into my Kronos? |
As you might know, Karma and Korg are separate co's.
From what I vaguely recall, the Kronos has an older version ( at least 5 yrs old) of Karma. And Korg is not interested in promoting a more current version.
Stephen can explain this better than I.
I agree, that Korg should be interested in a current version of Karma but I think this is good as it gets. I am not interested in the Desktop Karma software. I have projects with enough technology
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams 
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
street
Junior Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2016
Posts: 69
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Frankly, I don't really care what Karma version it is. Karma 2 or 3 - be it.
I believe that each of the Karma versions on Korg synths supports custom GEs
so that's probably Karma's way of "crippling" the synths just enough to warrant a purchase of $200.
After much reading about the subject it's hard to reach another conclusion.
It's just like DLC with games.
and that's more than a bit disappointing - for me Karma was one of the main reasons I bought the Kronos.
I will NOT by additional software to "unlock" additional functionality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| street wrote: | Frankly, I don't really care what Karma version it is. Karma 2 or 3 - be it.
I believe that each of the Karma versions on Korg synths supports custom GEs
so that's probably Karma's way of "crippling" the synths just enough to warrant a purchase of $200.
After much reading about the subject it's hard to reach another conclusion.
It's just like DLC with games.
and that's more than a bit disappointing - for me Karma was one of the main reasons I bought the Kronos.
I will NOT by additional software to "unlock" additional functionality. |
A few corrections:
The KARMA Kronos Software is $169, not $200.
The version of KARMA in the Kronos, and the KARMA software for the Kronos, is the same: 2.2. KARMA 3.x is only available as part of the KARMA Motif software for six Yamaha synths.
In the early days of KARMA development with Korg (which I created alone and licensed to Korg), there was originally a plan to put all of the editing of GEs etc. into the keyboard. It turned out to be too difficult and the plan was scrapped.
As an alternative, I was encouraged to make my software available to users who wanted a way to get at all the hidden features of the KARMA engine. I do this alone, through my own company Karma-Lab, and Korg has nothing to do with the KARMA Software, nor does Korg make any money off of it. I do. I spend large amounts of my time supporting and developing the software, and I feel the price is fair - you may disagree.
No one is being forced to take advantage of the availability of this software. If someone wishes to create custom GEs, at least it is there - instead of there being NOTHING you can do about it. If KARMA is one of the main reasons you bought the Kronos (thanks!), then you may wish to consider adding the software at some point.
I also, as I have said before, proposed a plan over the years to Korg whereby some types of custom GEs could be created inside the keyboard without the additional software, but nothing came of it. It was not from me blocking such functionality in order to sell software, however.
It's also worth noting that Yamaha removed the ability to make user arps in the Montage, if I'm not mistaken.  It was a nice feature in the earlier Yamaha boards, however.
_________________
Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fcoulter
Senior Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2015
Posts: 271
Location: Central Florida
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| StephenKay wrote: |
The version of KARMA in the Kronos, and the KARMA software for the Kronos, is the same: 2.2. KARMA 3.x is only available as part of the KARMA Motif software for six Yamaha synths. |
You've made me curious. What are the differences between 2.2 and 3.x? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
spaceman3
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 520
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
At first, i was a little bummed that i could not make custom GEs with KRONOS.
Then i really thought about it.
I am saving up for the KARMA software.
Karma is great.
For me personaly, this software is a bargain at $169. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alexx_best
Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 18
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| spaceman3 wrote: | Karma is great.
For me personaly, this software is a bargain at $169. |
I really want to buy this software too! BUT...maybe anybody can explain some details (Mr.Stephen Kay, please?):
1) Can I program custom Karma GE's to play exactly what I've programmed, just like an ordinary arranger, simple plain patterns, without any variations, improvisations and so on?
2) Can I make a Karma GE works like this: I play some chords (every beat of a measure is another chord) and Karma pattern interprets my harmony every beat from the beginning? It's very critical for the bass patterns (for example) where every single beat of a measure needs to be a root note of a chord, if harmony changes every beat acordingly.
P.S. Sorry for my English, it's not my native language. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2979
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Alexx_best wrote: | | 1) Can I program custom Karma GE's to play exactly what I've programmed, just like an ordinary arranger, simple plain patterns, without any variations, improvisations and so on? |
Well, yes and no. The "Import To GE from .MID phrase" works best with simple sequences of notes. If all you want is a bass line of a certain sequence of notes (for example), this can work quite well. If you have a fancy phrase with pitch-bending and controller moves, then no - it cannot import this and have it play back exactly the same. KARMA is not really about playing back a sequenced phrase exactly as it was recorded in a .MID file - for that, you could use RPPR.
Of course, you can also program a GE from scratch, and in that case, you're only limited by how you can get the phrase to sound. It will always play back that way as long as you don't start messing with parameters to make it do variations and improvisations...
| Quote: | | 2) Can I make a Karma GE works like this: I play some chords (every beat of a measure is another chord) and Karma pattern interprets my harmony every beat from the beginning? It's very critical for the bass patterns (for example) where every single beat of a measure needs to be a root note of a chord, if harmony changes every beat acordingly. |
If I understand correctly, you are asking if KARMA can "know" that you started in the key of G minor and adjust the tonality accordingly with each chord, based on G minor. The answer is no. Each chord is evaluated based on only that chord. It would be nice if that was possible, but it isn't.
_________________
Stephen Kay - KARMA Developer • Karma-Lab - karma-lab.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leone
Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| StephenKay wrote: | | street wrote: | Frankly, I don't really care what Karma version it is. Karma 2 or 3 - be it.
I believe that each of the Karma versions on Korg synths supports custom GEs
so that's probably Karma's way of "crippling" the synths just enough to warrant a purchase of $200.
After much reading about the subject it's hard to reach another conclusion.
It's just like DLC with games.
and that's more than a bit disappointing - for me Karma was one of the main reasons I bought the Kronos.
I will NOT by additional software to "unlock" additional functionality. |
A few corrections:
The KARMA Kronos Software is $169, not $200.
The version of KARMA in the Kronos, and the KARMA software for the Kronos, is the same: 2.2. KARMA 3.x is only available as part of the KARMA Motif software for six Yamaha synths.
In the early days of KARMA development with Korg (which I created alone and licensed to Korg), there was originally a plan to put all of the editing of GEs etc. into the keyboard. It turned out to be too difficult and the plan was scrapped.
As an alternative, I was encouraged to make my software available to users who wanted a way to get at all the hidden features of the KARMA engine. I do this alone, through my own company Karma-Lab, and Korg has nothing to do with the KARMA Software, nor does Korg make any money off of it. I do. I spend large amounts of my time supporting and developing the software, and I feel the price is fair - you may disagree.
No one is being forced to take advantage of the availability of this software. If someone wishes to create custom GEs, at least it is there - instead of there being NOTHING you can do about it. If KARMA is one of the main reasons you bought the Kronos (thanks!), then you may wish to consider adding the software at some point.
I also, as I have said before, proposed a plan over the years to Korg whereby some types of custom GEs could be created inside the keyboard without the additional software, but nothing came of it. It was not from me blocking such functionality in order to sell software, however.
It's also worth noting that Yamaha removed the ability to make user arps in the Montage, if I'm not mistaken. It was a nice feature in the earlier Yamaha boards, however. |
Yamaha has just added in the import of user arps via the latest Montage firmware update 1.2!!!!
Korg should add the import of GE! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leone
Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| StephenKay wrote: | | street wrote: | Frankly, I don't really care what Karma version it is. Karma 2 or 3 - be it.
I believe that each of the Karma versions on Korg synths supports custom GEs
so that's probably Karma's way of "crippling" the synths just enough to warrant a purchase of $200.
After much reading about the subject it's hard to reach another conclusion.
It's just like DLC with games.
and that's more than a bit disappointing - for me Karma was one of the main reasons I bought the Kronos.
I will NOT by additional software to "unlock" additional functionality. |
A few corrections:
The KARMA Kronos Software is $169, not $200.
The version of KARMA in the Kronos, and the KARMA software for the Kronos, is the same: 2.2. KARMA 3.x is only available as part of the KARMA Motif software for six Yamaha synths.
In the early days of KARMA development with Korg (which I created alone and licensed to Korg), there was originally a plan to put all of the editing of GEs etc. into the keyboard. It turned out to be too difficult and the plan was scrapped.
As an alternative, I was encouraged to make my software available to users who wanted a way to get at all the hidden features of the KARMA engine. I do this alone, through my own company Karma-Lab, and Korg has nothing to do with the KARMA Software, nor does Korg make any money off of it. I do. I spend large amounts of my time supporting and developing the software, and I feel the price is fair - you may disagree.
No one is being forced to take advantage of the availability of this software. If someone wishes to create custom GEs, at least it is there - instead of there being NOTHING you can do about it. If KARMA is one of the main reasons you bought the Kronos (thanks!), then you may wish to consider adding the software at some point.
I also, as I have said before, proposed a plan over the years to Korg whereby some types of custom GEs could be created inside the keyboard without the additional software, but nothing came of it. It was not from me blocking such functionality in order to sell software, however.
It's also worth noting that Yamaha removed the ability to make user arps in the Montage, if I'm not mistaken. It was a nice feature in the earlier Yamaha boards, however. |
Yamaha has just added in the import of user arps via the latest Montage firmware update 1.2!!!!
Korg should add the import of GE! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Leone wrote: | | StephenKay wrote: | | street wrote: | Frankly, I don't really care what Karma version it is. Karma 2 or 3 - be it.
I believe that each of the Karma versions on Korg synths supports custom GEs
so that's probably Karma's way of "crippling" the synths just enough to warrant a purchase of $200.
After much reading about the subject it's hard to reach another conclusion.
It's just like DLC with games.
and that's more than a bit disappointing - for me Karma was one of the main reasons I bought the Kronos.
I will NOT by additional software to "unlock" additional functionality. |
A few corrections:
The KARMA Kronos Software is $169, not $200.
The version of KARMA in the Kronos, and the KARMA software for the Kronos, is the same: 2.2. KARMA 3.x is only available as part of the KARMA Motif software for six Yamaha synths.
In the early days of KARMA development with Korg (which I created alone and licensed to Korg), there was originally a plan to put all of the editing of GEs etc. into the keyboard. It turned out to be too difficult and the plan was scrapped.
As an alternative, I was encouraged to make my software available to users who wanted a way to get at all the hidden features of the KARMA engine. I do this alone, through my own company Karma-Lab, and Korg has nothing to do with the KARMA Software, nor does Korg make any money off of it. I do. I spend large amounts of my time supporting and developing the software, and I feel the price is fair - you may disagree.
No one is being forced to take advantage of the availability of this software. If someone wishes to create custom GEs, at least it is there - instead of there being NOTHING you can do about it. If KARMA is one of the main reasons you bought the Kronos (thanks!), then you may wish to consider adding the software at some point.
I also, as I have said before, proposed a plan over the years to Korg whereby some types of custom GEs could be created inside the keyboard without the additional software, but nothing came of it. It was not from me blocking such functionality in order to sell software, however.
It's also worth noting that Yamaha removed the ability to make user arps in the Montage, if I'm not mistaken. It was a nice feature in the earlier Yamaha boards, however. |
Yamaha has just added in the import of user arps via the latest Montage firmware update 1.2!!!!
Korg should add the import of GE! |
no, it would be easier if I bought a Montage
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
