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Genesis Tony Banks sounds on Kronos
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="laandodeman"]
jorgemncardoso wrote:
laandodeman wrote:
. As a personal taste only, i tend to prefer the patches Tony used on the Quadra thru the 80's rathar than the Pro-soloist ones. .


I think I agree. Yesterday I saw the In the Cage mix of Three Sides live on Youtube: love the Quadra sound. But then it's not the entire Cinema Show Sad


What amazed me about Banks is how he used keyboards to good effect and had a sound all of his own. We could all probably learn from that. Smile
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alanjpearson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laandodeman wrote:
Decided to recreate the ARP on the Moog Voyager. The organs and mellotrons on the Kronos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuOeBJL4HVI

Any hints, tips or tricks to improve?

Well played.
My main observation is turn off the portamento - it sounds more like a Moog with it turned on and anyway Banks only had portamento on between 2:23 and 2:33 on your video.
A Moog is a Moog so the filter is never going to make it sound like an ARP but well done for trying.
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laandodeman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alanjpearson wrote:
laandodeman wrote:
Decided to recreate the ARP on the Moog Voyager. The organs and mellotrons on the Kronos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuOeBJL4HVI

Any hints, tips or tricks to improve?

Well played.
My main observation is turn off the portamento - it sounds more like a Moog with it turned on and anyway Banks only had portamento on between 2:23 and 2:33 on your video.
A Moog is a Moog so the filter is never going to make it sound like an ARP but well done for trying.


Thanks for the tip on portamento!

I think the Moog has settings to emulate other filters as well. What kind of filter (pole/slope) does the ARP have? On the Moog, I can choose between different poles (1 to 4).
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alanjpearson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

laandodeman wrote:
alanjpearson wrote:
laandodeman wrote:
Decided to recreate the ARP on the Moog Voyager. The organs and mellotrons on the Kronos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuOeBJL4HVI

Any hints, tips or tricks to improve?

Well played.
My main observation is turn off the portamento - it sounds more like a Moog with it turned on and anyway Banks only had portamento on between 2:23 and 2:33 on your video.
A Moog is a Moog so the filter is never going to make it sound like an ARP but well done for trying.


Thanks for the tip on portamento!

I think the Moog has settings to emulate other filters as well. What kind of filter (pole/slope) does the ARP have? On the Moog, I can choose between different poles (1 to 4).


Theres actually more than just the filter..........
http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44518
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mocando
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread. Although I don't own a Kronos, since I moved to a fully software synth route, is super useful. We are starting a tribute band for Rush and Genesis, and we finished gigging Rush, and are now building sounds for Genesis. I'm looking for the organ sound that can be heard on And Then There Were Three "Down and Out". With the help of this thread, I almost got it right, but I'm missing the exact drawbar position.

BTW, I had a very old Pro Soloist VST, and used Mainstage's Autosampler featured, and sampled most of the presets used by Tony. The Fuzz guitar sounds simply amazing. I bet you can also put those samples on the Kronos as well, so if you are interested, I'm one PM away from sharing the samples. Besides, the VST is free, so it not like I'm sharing paid stuff.
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Do you mean this one by any chance?

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=1491
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Joe Gerardi
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocando wrote:
I'm looking for the organ sound that can be heard on And Then There Were Three "Down and Out". With the help of this thread, I almost got it right, but I'm missing the exact drawbar position.


88 8886 400 is a very good standard Banks drawbar setting. No Hammond player ever has the exact same setting all the time, and Tony did use the presets on his T102 a lot. This should give you a good start.

But the secret is the effects. Tony hated Leslies, so used one early on, but got rid of it after the third album, and ran the organ through an MXR Super Chorus and MXR Phase 100 to simulate a Leslie.

THAT'S the real secret to his sound.

..Joe

PS: Do "All in Mouse's Night" from Wind and Wuthering!
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BillW
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin,

I'm replicating this sound with the Kronos CX-3 engine, so my settings might not apply. I have 888888044, internal rotary bypassed, and two insert effects: the Boss CE-1 chorus and MXR Phase 100 (both of which are the pedals Tony originally used and both are modeled in the Kronos). After the inserts, I have some hall reverb. I also have some EQ applied to the final result.

Which plugin are you using for organ? I find that I always end up tweaking EQ no matter where I have the drawbars set.

Bill
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NormC
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any good sites for Genesis transcriptions or sheet music? I really want to play In the Cage but having troubles with solos. Tony has fast fingers.
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BillW
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormC wrote:
Any good sites for Genesis transcriptions or sheet music? I really want to play In the Cage but having troubles with solos. Tony has fast fingers.


There used by be a site known as "Watch of the Scores" by Hsiao Chida that had the chords for In The Cage (as well as the solo transcribed), but it's no longer online (even via the wayback machine). I believe the Cage solo, however, was transcribed in the December Keyboard Magazine (maybe by Jerry Kovarsky).

There are probably some youtube videos showing it too.

Well, look what I found:

http://web.archive.org/web/20000304202612/http://plaza20.mbn.or.jp/~hisao_chida/scores/songlist.html
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!!
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mocando
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cook wrote:
Hi,

Do you mean this one by any chance?

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=1491


Yup, precisely. Just today I finished sampling the Basoon, Hapsicord, Violin and Muted Trumpet that I was missing on my Tony Banks set. Ready to share if you want. Just PM me.
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BillW
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocando wrote:
Derek Cook wrote:
Hi,

Do you mean this one by any chance?

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=1491


Yup, precisely. Just today I finished sampling the Basoon, Hapsicord, Violin and Muted Trumpet that I was missing on my Tony Banks set. Ready to share if you want. Just PM me.


Are working on Cinema Show? I'm convinced the run in F# was done with the English Horn, not the Harpsichord. The Harpsichord was definitely used in Dancing with the Moonlit Knight though. I'm using some samples from this VST as well...too bad it was abandoned by the developer.
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Last edited by BillW on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mocando
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillW wrote:
Martin,

I'm replicating this sound with the Kronos CX-3 engine, so my settings might not apply. I have 888888044, internal rotary bypassed, and two insert effects: the Boss CE-1 chorus and MXR Phase 100 (both of which are the pedals Tony originally used and both are modeled in the Kronos). After the inserts, I have some hall reverb. I also have some EQ applied to the final result.

Which plugin are you using for organ? I find that I always end up tweaking EQ no matter where I have the drawbars set.

Bill


Bill,

I was watching the Mama Tour video on Youtube last night. It brought a lot of fun memories, since I watched that same video on VHS back in the 80s, when a friend of mine, Genesis lover as well, brought it from the US and it was just released. It was a blast.

Now, since there is a camera over Tony, you can see which keyboard he is playing on which part, and you can clearly see he have the ARP Quadra, resting above the CP-70, then on the left, the huge Prophet and above it the Synclavier. And on the back, it was clearly the monster of the Emulator.

Now, for the Organ parts, I thought he was using the synclavier, and it turns out he uses the Prophet. So I was testing a Prophet VST from Arturia, and there is a preset called Pipe Pipe under Organs. Oh my God. You need to hear it. I'll try to make a video this weekend so you can hear the sound. Is simply amazing. I don't even need to put any reverb on it. It has the exact amount of phasing on it. Is just sublime.
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BillW
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mocando wrote:
BillW wrote:
Martin,

I'm replicating this sound with the Kronos CX-3 engine, so my settings might not apply. I have 888888044, internal rotary bypassed, and two insert effects: the Boss CE-1 chorus and MXR Phase 100 (both of which are the pedals Tony originally used and both are modeled in the Kronos). After the inserts, I have some hall reverb. I also have some EQ applied to the final result.

Which plugin are you using for organ? I find that I always end up tweaking EQ no matter where I have the drawbars set.

Bill


Bill,

I was watching the Mama Tour video on Youtube last night. It brought a lot of fun memories, since I watched that same video on VHS back in the 80s, when a friend of mine, Genesis lover as well, brought it from the US and it was just released. It was a blast.

Now, since there is a camera over Tony, you can see which keyboard he is playing on which part, and you can clearly see he have the ARP Quadra, resting above the CP-70, then on the left, the huge Prophet and above it the Synclavier. And on the back, it was clearly the monster of the Emulator.

Now, for the Organ parts, I thought he was using the synclavier, and it turns out he uses the Prophet. So I was testing a Prophet VST from Arturia, and there is a preset called Pipe Pipe under Organs. Oh my God. You need to hear it. I'll try to make a video this weekend so you can hear the sound. Is simply amazing. I don't even need to put any reverb on it. It has the exact amount of phasing on it. Is just sublime.



I have the V-Collection 5, I will check it out as soon as I get home. My Genesis trib doesn't play much stuff past 1978, so I wouldn't need anything more than the Kronos.
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