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ErnstDabest
Senior Member
Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 266
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 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | ErnstDabest wrote: | | benny ray wrote: |
I have tried many ways to like the Berlin Grand but cannot do anything that significantly helps the sounds. For me its the tifferent ears. |
Korg was never any good a programming pianos, I have a Korg Triton so I know how lame their pianos are. I use to laugh whenever I'm watching a youtube video of either a Korg M3 or a Korg OASYS and the demo-saleguy would say, "listen to that piano how authentic it sounds" OR how fun and expressive that piano is to play.....
- I wish the pianos on my Triton sounded half-decent to what I hear coming from Kronos. |
The main reason I bought the Kronos are because of the superb acoustic pianos.
Lets not re-fuss over the Triton AP's. There's another forum for the Triton |
Don't cherrypick from what I wrote in order to mischaracterize my <entire> post.
My point is very clear.. Korg's piano programming WAS and still is a work in progress.
Perhaps the reason that you're so fond of Kronosus' acoustic piano(s) came as a result of fussy users whose complaints Korg had to finally accept into consideration...or,.. perhaps it could be competition from a certain red aluminum case synth manufacturer that's producing more convincing-sounding pianos forcing Korg to step up their piano-sampling game.
Regardless of what's the causing factor..
It's a welcome change from those unrealistic uninspiring even downright unuseable piano programs previously found in many PRO level flagship workstations... It's an improvement !!...still,...much work needs to be done.
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SanderXpander
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I rather think they're at least on par with if not ahead of the competition. I sold my Nord Stage partly because I didn't really like the pianos. While it's true I had a Classic (rev C) and so couldn't use the newest largest pianos at the time, the Kronos was a MASSIVE improvement. I still don't really like the Nord grands. I don't think you can still make the case that Korg pianos are the weak point of their soundset. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ErnstDabest wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | ErnstDabest wrote: | | benny ray wrote: |
I have tried many ways to like the Berlin Grand but cannot do anything that significantly helps the sounds. For me its the tifferent ears. |
Korg was never any good a programming pianos, I have a Korg Triton so I know how lame their pianos are. I use to laugh whenever I'm watching a youtube video of either a Korg M3 or a Korg OASYS and the demo-saleguy would say, "listen to that piano how authentic it sounds" OR how fun and expressive that piano is to play.....
- I wish the pianos on my Triton sounded half-decent to what I hear coming from Kronos. |
The main reason I bought the Kronos are because of the superb acoustic pianos.
Lets not re-fuss over the Triton AP's. There's another forum for the Triton |
Don't cherrypick from what I wrote in order to mischaracterize my <entire> post.
My point is very clear.. Korg's piano programming WAS and still is a work in progress.
Perhaps the reason that you're so fond of Kronosus' acoustic piano(s) came as a result of fussy users whose complaints Korg had to finally accept into consideration...or,.. perhaps it could be competition from a certain red aluminum case synth manufacturer that's producing more convincing-sounding pianos forcing Korg to step up their piano-sampling game.
Regardless of what's the causing factor..
It's a welcome change from those unrealistic uninspiring even downright unuseable piano programs previously found in many PRO level flagship workstations... It's an improvement !!...still,...much work needs to be done. |
you make this sound like the same baseball game that started in 1999 and is still going on today 
Can you clarify what is 'much work needs to be done' ?
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Achieve your musical dreams
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J.S. Bach
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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One of the reasons that I bought the Kronos2 is because I wanted to be able to play the classical music that I play on my Baldwin 6' grand on a more portable instrument. Perhaps that was naive but I saw so many people saying that Kronos had such great piano sounds.
I've found an annoying string buzz on the following notes:
B1, C1, D#1, F3, A#4, C4 C#4 and D4. It seems to be in the Berlin piano sample but I suppose it could be some unwanted resonance in my sound system. Are others hearing this also? It keeps me from using the Berlin grands in any form. I haven't noticed with the other piano sounds.
Thx |
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19naia
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1216
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:30 am Post subject: |
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My first impression of the berln grand was not that good either ,as far as the overall envelope. The sustain seemed short whether i use sustain pedal or hold the note down or just hit the note and let go right away with no sustain pedal input.
That really distracted me from actually listening to the quality of the sound, but it was clear from the start that it was a rich sound no matter how stubby of an envelope it was in. And sure enough there is an adjustment for the sustain attitude of the sound.
What i did notice was it really meshed well with the keybed feel and coaxed my fingers into a more refined finger flow after puttng up with the sound for a while.
I use it for finger exercises and thats about it. I havent even tried to tweak the sound in any parameters either. Its a clear piano sound for sure ,with all the wood keybed action sounds and resonance. But not my usual style. It seems normal though after experience in well stocked piano stores and trying out the various real pianos and finding some that just dont make sense to my finger and ear conditioning.
Berlin grand seems like it would be great for certain styles of playing and i plan on composing at least one song i can tailor to the characteristics of the Berln Grand. But not now, i have too many other projects at hand. Just finished a Combi that was started two months ago and never quite turned out right until today. If i can get myself to stop playing it, i just may get around to rehearsing the rest of my songs that need work. Been keyless for years until i got my Kronos months ago~ so I need to scrape off the rust. |
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| ErnstDabest wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | ErnstDabest wrote: | | benny ray wrote: |
I have tried many ways to like the Berlin Grand but cannot do anything that significantly helps the sounds. For me its the tifferent ears. |
Korg was never any good a programming pianos, I have a Korg Triton so I know how lame their pianos are. I use to laugh whenever I'm watching a youtube video of either a Korg M3 or a Korg OASYS and the demo-saleguy would say, "listen to that piano how authentic it sounds" OR how fun and expressive that piano is to play.....
- I wish the pianos on my Triton sounded half-decent to what I hear coming from Kronos. |
The main reason I bought the Kronos are because of the superb acoustic pianos.
Lets not re-fuss over the Triton AP's. There's another forum for the Triton |
Don't cherrypick from what I wrote in order to mischaracterize my <entire> post.
My point is very clear.. Korg's piano programming WAS and still is a work in progress.
Perhaps the reason that you're so fond of Kronosus' acoustic piano(s) came as a result of fussy users whose complaints Korg had to finally accept into consideration...or,.. perhaps it could be competition from a certain red aluminum case synth manufacturer that's producing more convincing-sounding pianos forcing Korg to step up their piano-sampling game.
Regardless of what's the causing factor..
It's a welcome change from those unrealistic uninspiring even downright unuseable piano programs previously found in many PRO level flagship workstations... It's an improvement !!...still,...much work needs to be done. |
Liking or disliking piano sounds (and also lots of other instruments) is mostly a subjective property. As can be seen, some like the Korg piano sounds, others don't . Same like some people like or dislike other brand's piano sounds.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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J.S. Bach
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | I reduce the velocity bias to make the Berlin more useful. |
For us newbies, could you give more explicit instructions where to do this?
After reading posts about contact strips, I'm wondering whether that explains the string buzz (distortion?) I'm hearing for some notes with the Berlin Grand. See my previous post. No one else has confirmed that the buzz I'm hearing is in the samples. I don't notice it with other sounds, but as someone else noted perhaps string velocity is just more noticeable on the Berlin Grands. BTW I have a brand new Kronos 2-88 (40 days old) so I was hoping it has the latest contact strips in it. |
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Ottawa58
Full Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Posts: 182
Location: Ottawa Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: Velocity Bias |
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| J.S. Bach wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | I reduce the velocity bias to make the Berlin more useful. |
For us newbies, could you give more explicit instructions where to do this?
After reading posts about contact strips, I'm wondering whether that explains the string buzz (distortion?) I'm hearing for some notes with the Berlin Grand. See my previous post. No one else has confirmed that the buzz I'm hearing is in the samples. I don't notice it with other sounds, but as someone else noted perhaps string velocity is just more noticeable on the Berlin Grands. BTW I have a brand new Kronos 2-88 (40 days old) so I was hoping it has the latest contact strips in it. |
Hi Greg,
I know the screen to reduce velocity bias. (Just touch on the picture of the piano), and I have looked at the parameter guide, but I'm slow on this one. When you reduce the velocity bias, what actually happens? Thanks, Steve
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Velocity Bias |
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| Ottawa58 wrote: | | J.S. Bach wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | I reduce the velocity bias to make the Berlin more useful. |
For us newbies, could you give more explicit instructions where to do this?
After reading posts about contact strips, I'm wondering whether that explains the string buzz (distortion?) I'm hearing for some notes with the Berlin Grand. See my previous post. No one else has confirmed that the buzz I'm hearing is in the samples. I don't notice it with other sounds, but as someone else noted perhaps string velocity is just more noticeable on the Berlin Grands. BTW I have a brand new Kronos 2-88 (40 days old) so I was hoping it has the latest contact strips in it. |
Hi Greg,
I know the screen to reduce velocity bias. (Just touch on the picture of the piano), and I have looked at the parameter guide, but I'm slow on this one. When you reduce the velocity bias, what actually happens? Thanks, Steve |
yes, press the EX1 tab to get to ' setup' .
You will see 2 boxes for velocity, bias and intensity.
Dial intensity to -100 to exaggerate the effect. Try it, nothing will break.
C3 and C4 will sound ' better ', assuming one is not banging on these keys.
Play normal/soft.
C2 will sound mostly the same. That sample has the worst overtone.
I also dial back the mid gain and high gain EQ.
These edits are not going to fix the sample. I think they lessen some of the problems. The Berlin becomes more useful.
I have the original Kronos, 88 key.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Velocity Bias |
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| Ottawa58 wrote: | | J.S. Bach wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | I reduce the velocity bias to make the Berlin more useful. |
For us newbies, could you give more explicit instructions where to do this?
After reading posts about contact strips, I'm wondering whether that explains the string buzz (distortion?) I'm hearing for some notes with the Berlin Grand. See my previous post. No one else has confirmed that the buzz I'm hearing is in the samples. I don't notice it with other sounds, but as someone else noted perhaps string velocity is just more noticeable on the Berlin Grands. BTW I have a brand new Kronos 2-88 (40 days old) so I was hoping it has the latest contact strips in it. |
Hi Greg,
I know the screen to reduce velocity bias. (Just touch on the picture of the piano), and I have looked at the parameter guide, but I'm slow on this one. When you reduce the velocity bias, what actually happens? Thanks, Steve |
yes, press the EX1 tab to get to ' setup' .
You will see 2 boxes for velocity, bias and intensity.
Dial intensity to -100 to exaggerate the effect. Try it, nothing will break.
C3 and C4 will sound ' better ', assuming one is not banging on these keys.
Play normal/soft.
C2 will sound mostly the same. That sample has the worst overtone.
I also dial back the mid gain and high gain EQ.
These edits are not going to fix the sample. I think they lessen some of the problems. The Berlin becomes more useful.
I have the original Kronos, 88 key.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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J.S. Bach
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the help. I'll try that as soon as I get a chance. |
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J.S. Bach
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Velocity Bias |
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[quote="GregC"][quote="Ottawa58"][quote="J.S. Bach"] | GregC wrote: | | I reduce the velocity bias to make the Berlin more useful. |
yes, press the EX1 tab to get to ' setup' .
You will see 2 boxes for velocity, bias and intensity.
Dial intensity to -100 to exaggerate the effect. Try it, nothing will break.
C3 and C4 will sound ' better ', assuming one is not banging on these keys.
Play normal/soft.
C2 will sound mostly the same. That sample has the worst overtone.
I also dial back the mid gain and high gain EQ.
I've tried those suggestions and perhaps they helped a little. What I've discovered is that when I listen through headphones, I don't have the problem. So either my headphones just aren't loud enough to distort or the string buzz is accentuated by my speakers. I also have a Mackie SRM-450 that I played through for a comparison. It was different notes on there that had the buzz. My normal system is a Mackie mixer with Mackie power amp and Audio Centron 15" 3-way speakers. It seems that my mid ranges (10" speaker_ and horns (on both systems) may have resonant frequencies that boost the string buzz. I may need to try other speakers to see if that helps or simpler yet, just don't use the Berlin Grand. I can get decent sounds out of the Japanese and German Grands. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Velocity Bias |
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[quote="J.S. Bach"][quote="GregC"][quote="Ottawa58"] | J.S. Bach wrote: | | GregC wrote: | | I reduce the velocity bias to make the Berlin more useful. |
yes, press the EX1 tab to get to ' setup' .
You will see 2 boxes for velocity, bias and intensity.
Dial intensity to -100 to exaggerate the effect. Try it, nothing will break.
C3 and C4 will sound ' better ', assuming one is not banging on these keys.
Play normal/soft.
C2 will sound mostly the same. That sample has the worst overtone.
I also dial back the mid gain and high gain EQ.
I've tried those suggestions and perhaps they helped a little. What I've discovered is that when I listen through headphones, I don't have the problem. So either my headphones just aren't loud enough to distort or the string buzz is accentuated by my speakers. I also have a Mackie SRM-450 that I played through for a comparison. It was different notes on there that had the buzz. My normal system is a Mackie mixer with Mackie power amp and Audio Centron 15" 3-way speakers. It seems that my mid ranges (10" speaker_ and horns (on both systems) may have resonant frequencies that boost the string buzz. I may need to try other speakers to see if that helps or simpler yet, just don't use the Berlin Grand. I can get decent sounds out of the Japanese and German Grands. |
I have studio monitors so there is no 'masking' on whatever frequency.
FYI, I had a Mackie Onyx. This mixer muddied the pure Kronos sound so I got rid of the Onyx. Kronos is straight to my monitors and it sounds great.
When you can afford it, evaluate your audio chain to maximize that great Kronos sound.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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JPROBERTLA
Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 483
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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To me the Berlin grand is best suited for straight up piano playing. It is very realistic and has a lot of mechanical noise. Very little success in playing it with band though, as it does not get thru the mix. I am actually considering removing it and better utilizing the space.
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JP
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Kronos2-88, Behringer XR18, Turbosound IP2000 (x2), dbx DriveRack 260, KRK Rokit 8s, Mackie CFX16, Mackie SRM450(x2), Mackie SRS1500 (x2), BBE processors (x4), Roland VSR 880 (x2), Alto TS210, Alto TX10 (x3) and SoundForge |
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dNoise
Joined: 22 Jan 2018
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:00 pm Post subject: Use HD mode with the EXs 17 samples |
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What you can do is build your own piano in HD, using the EXs samples. This allows you to pick from the range of 1-12 timbres sample sets that are triggered by velocity, and set your own velocity points. This way youcan avoid sets with poor samples.
Furthermore in AMP velocity you can also drive the volume by velocity in any way you like, plus massage the attack which can make a hugh difference in a mix.
As an example/start use the User C000 HD-1 Piano-Damper, that has samples on osc1 and a damper sample on osc2 (using Note on Control key+pedal), plus damper effect in IFX1. |
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