Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Yamaha New Synth with Alien Technology
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 18, 19, 20  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Latest News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
skinmechanic
Junior Member


Joined: 15 Apr 2015
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Who cares about pc's ... They are still unfit for playing live with their loading times and stuff...


This is a keyboard forum, and most people here are musicians and not producers... And musicians like to make music with instruments and not with PC's.


Agreed my Windows 10 PC with SSD loads much quicker than my Korg M3 ever did, and certainly quicker that my MOTIF XF.

The Korg Kronos OS is also built on a variant of LINUX which as we all know derive from "Computers".

Having said that I'm not after a workstation now anyway, unless 90% of your work is LIVE work then don;t see the need for them certainly in a studio set-up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DmitryKo



Joined: 24 Jan 2015
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
Did you know that VL technollogy is still in use by Yamaha.. the Super articulation 2 voices (only the 2) in Tyros 3,4 and 5 and the latest CVP piano´s are based on a combination of VL technollogy and sampling...

So you say that Clavinova CVP pianos and SA voices are based on Yamaha VL (virtual acoustic) synthesis engine - which has always been monophonic, except on the unreleased Yamaha VP-1 synthesizer (MSRP $30 000 as of 1994)? Really?


I think we've already discussed this in the Yamaha reface thread
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=652582#652582
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=653334#653334

I posted you a link to the official video interview with Toshifumi Kunimoto, the lead developer for SCM, VCM, FDSP, VP1, and VL1.

In this interview he explicitly affirms that SCM (Spectral Component Modeling) engine is the succesor to his VA (virtual acoustic) physical modelling engine used in the VL1/VP1 series.

This makes perfect sense to me, considering that SCM was first used in the Yamaha's CP-series of digital pianos, and VL engine has never been used to emulate pianos.


I also posted links to a forum post made by Yamaha_US (Athan Billias, currently Director of Strategic Product Planning at Yamaha USA). He furhter explains that SCM is made of two parts:

1) spectral modeling, a form of additive synthesis which uses parametric window functions created with STFT (Short-Time Fourier Transform) to recreate spectral harmonics that make the original sound - although on the CP-series this spectral modeling was fully used only on the EPs, while the acoustic pianos still used samples;

2) component modeling, standard subtractive synthesis engine which uses filters and effect processing to shape the harmonics of the sound, and where some electronic components (like vintage effect pedals) are physically modelled with VCM (Virtual Circuit Modeling) technology.


On the other hand, Super Articulation voices on the Tyros (both SA1 and SA2) are not really physically modeled. The synth engine in he Tyros is still based on sample-based AWM - not the Yamaha's VL engine, which uses mathematical models to describe two types of oscillating sound sources: bowed instrument (controlled by air pressure to the tube) and string instrument (controlled by pluck/scrub on the string).

SA voices still use sample-based engine - the articulation effects are samples which are mapped to some specific keys and/or velocity ranges. The OS simply triggers these pre-sampled articulations and pre-set arpeggios based on the keypress velocity, and some of these playback effects are implemented with preset arpeggio phrases. This is nothing like the VL engine, where the sound is not generated by samples, but by an dedicated processor which implements a mathematical model.


Bachus wrote:
AeM is a form of moddeling on top of samples.. Moddeling in this case is nothing else but changing the sample based changing the samples based on the charasteristics of the instrument... Not just changing betweem samples, or crossfading from one to another sample, but also more advanced things that come from Yamaha's VL experience.

• Embouchure (tightness of lips or bow pressure on the string)
• Vibrato (affects Pitch or Embouchure via an LFO)
• Tonguing (simulates half-tonguing damping of saxophone reed)


You don't really understand what you are quoting. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_articles/jul94/yamahavl1.html

These parameters are integral to Yamaha's VL engine, which is a "self-oscillating virtual acoustic" engine - where the sound oscillator is not a simple sine/square/triangle wave (as in analog or "virtual analog" synthesis), not an FM operator (as in digital FM/phase modulation synthesis), not a digital sample (as in sample-based synthesis), not a wavetable or spectral component (as in additive synthesis), but a mathematical model that describes a vibrating object.

The continuous controllers above are NOT some algorithms for magically manipulating existing sample data to somehow adjust "embouchure" and "tonguing", they are realtime parameters of the underlying physical model of an oscillating horn controlled by air blown by a human being. As such, this physical model tries to approximate the behavior of human organs used to produce air pressure - such as lungs, lips, tongue and vocal cords - and their effect on the harmonic content of the sound.

This is exactly why these parameters are exposed by realtime controllers - because real-world horn players can manipulate these organs in realtime to color the sound, and the mathematical model tries to affect the vibrating oscillator in a similar way.

Again, these parameters are not really meant to add the "embouchure" and "tonguing" effects to existing samples.

Bachus wrote:

- AWM technollogy will make a huge step (Halion modularrity) into combining sampling with all kinds of virtuall technollogies (VL, AN, CS, YC, FM, SCM, AEM, VRM, etc etc) that make it a true modular engine...
- Hardware will get an update, not to the level of Kronos, but it will make a huge step...
- The Montage will be fully audio capable, not just playing audio, but realtime manupilation of audio to...
- but also you can expect many things that Kontakt (NI) VST can do, like ensemble and orchestral to be inside...
- huge improvement of the number of voices and effects...
- Full integration with Cubase 8.5, even more then now, expect to see functionallity comparable to NI komplete and Akai VIP...

I predict that none of the above will happen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aron
Platinum Member


Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 1546
Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you imagine if Toshifumi was allowed to make a "VL2"? It would be incredible. IF only Yamaha would do such a thing.... It will probably never happen but if.....
_________________
Korg Kronos, CASIO PX-5S, Yamaha VL1, author of unrealBook for iPad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DmitryKo



Joined: 24 Jan 2015
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toshi Kunimoto was allowed to make VP1 (essentially a polyphonic version of VL1) and no-one was going to buy it at MSRP US$30,000. Sales of VL1 (MSRP US$10000) were lukewarm as well.

Even if it was not for the high price, VL1/VL7 keyboards and VL1m/VL70m modules were very niche instruments - above all, they absolutely required a breath controller (Yamaha BC2/BC3/BC3A) on the keyboard version, and a unique EWI-style (electric wind instrument) controller, Yamaha WX5/WX7/WX11, on the module versions, to fully master the woodwind/brass sound model.

Although a few Yamaha presenters were quite proficient with the breath controller in their demos of the Motif/ES with a PLGxxx-VL card, I also recall that many unsuspecting keyboard players had a great deal of difficulty mastering the breath controller, as evidenced on Motifator.com forums. They had to fall back to keyboard-only versions of the presets, which used aftertouch instead of the breath controller, and even that was too hard to efficiently control.

And mastering the WX-series controllers was only possible for proficient clarinet/saxophone players. But if you are good saxophone player, then what's the point - you can go and play a real saxophone! Why would you need an expensive sound module and similarly expensive MIDI controller?

Major keyboard players never picked up the trend too. I can't see why they would even bother with a US$10000 keyboard which required them to master the breath controller, when they could hire a real sax player for the money...


So in the end, virtual acoustic physical modeling (based on Stanford's digital waveguide patent) was a market failure for both Yamaha (VL series, EX5, PLG-VL) and Korg (Prophecy/Z1/MOSS board), even though it's still included in the Korg OASYS/Kronos.

And it wasn't even about the modeling technology. It was about trying to recreate subtle nuances of playing a wind instrument - which can be controlled by five or more separate parameters (air pressure, lip movement and tightness, tonguing, and breathing) all related to human physiology - on an electronic keyboard, which only has two or three parameters - velocity, mod wheel, and aftertouch or ribbon/D-Beam. Not possible, you can only do it with a proper EWI controller.

Besides being a keyboardist and (mostly) a piano player, I am also an educated trumpet player (though I don't play trumpet anymore) - so I can clearly see the futility of any effort to realistically recreate wind instruments on any keyboard instrument. Yes, some programs can be quite close to the real thing, but when you play it it's immediately apparent that you can control only two dimensions of the sound - the remaining three are fixed at design time. You can't fool my ears with it.

We shall see if Yamaha have found a way to make a viable emulation of wind acoustic sounds on the keyboard with their SCM engine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SanderXpander
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually the MOSS-board is still sought after and in the oriental market it remains a leading player. I still miss the wind model in my Kronos and I never even used a breath controller. It isn't all about recreating the most realistic wind instrument (for example) either, half the time it's about creating fantastic sounds that have some of the expressive qualities of a wind instrument. Take a look at some of the STR1 presets in Kronos to see what I'm talking about (but then with plucked string instrument).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bachus
Platinum Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
Actually the MOSS-board is still sought after and in the oriental market it remains a leading player. I still miss the wind model in my Kronos and I never even used a breath controller. It isn't all about recreating the most realistic wind instrument (for example) either, half the time it's about creating fantastic sounds that have some of the expressive qualities of a wind instrument. Take a look at some of the STR1 presets in Kronos to see what I'm talking about (but then with plucked string instrument).


Thats so true... I prefer expressive sounds above near realistic but less expresive sounds...

A good example of this might be my love for Rolamd piano sounds, they are not the most realistic, but they are so expressive..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Derek Cook
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 1279
Location: Wales, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
Actually the MOSS-board is still sought after and in the oriental market it remains a leading player. I still miss the wind model in my Kronos and I never even used a breath controller. It isn't all about recreating the most realistic wind instrument (for example) either, half the time it's about creating fantastic sounds that have some of the expressive qualities of a wind instrument. Take a look at some of the STR1 presets in Kronos to see what I'm talking about (but then with plucked string instrument).


It would be nice for Korg to add a wind model to the Kronos. The plucked string model is pretty good, and I like the way how some of the presets use it in an off the wall way to create ambient type sounds.

Even better if this new alien synth from Yamaha revisits physical modelling and updates it for the 21st century.

I have Wind models in my EX5 and PLG150-VL, and I agree with the two posts above: even if played from the keyboard the VL sounds are much more expressive and realistic than ROMPLER samples of string/wind instruments. I used to use the EX5 VL Sax in a covers band on a few songs, and it would usually get people looking to see where we had hidden the sax player! The EX5/VL70m Shakuhachi is still one of my favourite sounds on the EX5 for realism.

I managed to score a WX5 wind controller from ebay earlier this year, but it's sitting there waiting for the time when I actually get time to mess with it.
_________________
Derek Cook - Java Developer



Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board

My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bachus
Platinum Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DmitryKo wrote:
Bachus wrote:
Did you know that VL technollogy is still in use by Yamaha.. the Super articulation 2 voices (only the 2) in Tyros 3,4 and 5 and the latest CVP piano´s are based on a combination of VL technollogy and sampling...

So you say that Clavinova CVP pianos and SA voices are based on Yamaha VL (virtual acoustic) synthesis engine - which has always been monophonic, except on the unreleased Yamaha VP-1 synthesizer (MSRP $30 000 as of 1994)? Really?


You dont seem to understand that SA voices (as in the CVP piano´s are not the same as SA2 voices).. SA voices are nothing but sample switching based on events..(buttons, legato play and such)

SA2 voices, use all kinds of moddeling to reshape the samples, this moddeling technollogy is hugely based on the mathematical models used to influence the real time soundsource of the VL engine, yet in the SA2 (did you see a 2 there) they indeed are used to reshape the sample.. they are not the same moddels as the VL engine, but are based uppon them..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Synthoid
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 3300
Location: PA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
Actually the MOSS-board is still sought after and in the oriental market it remains a leading player.


Maybe I can find a wealthy Asian friend to buy mine... Very Happy
_________________
M3, Triton Classic, Radias, Motif XS, Alesis Ion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SanderXpander
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More middle Eastern, but I'm sure you could.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DmitryKo



Joined: 24 Jan 2015
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
Actually the MOSS-board is still sought after... I still miss the wind model in my Kronos and I never even used a breath controller


The Z1/Prophecy and the MOSS board are most famous for virtual analog synth engines.

They are basically a downscaled OASYS (the original hardware DSP board that was eventually released as the OASYS PCI card), and that's why they also included a "virtual acoustic" wind/reed model, based on the "digital waveguide synthesis" patented by Stanford's CCRMA.

I'm happy that people enjoy playing it on their keyboards, but the fact that this model was omitted from the OASYS/Kronos keyboards should speak for itself.


Derek Cook wrote:
I have Wind models in my EX5 and PLG150-VL, and I agree with the two posts above: even if played from the keyboard the VL sounds are much more expressive and realistic than ROMPLER samples of string/wind instruments.


Well, guitars, brass, and woodwind instruments basically suck on any "rompler", simply because they are an one-dimensional snapshot of the real thing and there's not much realtime control essentially similar to what is possible on the real instrument. It can be very convincing when you play one slow note, but if you try to play a quick phrase, it is immediately apparent that you are listening to an electronic emulation, not a real instrument.

I agree that VL is much more expressive, though mostly for individual notes and playback effects - especially if you play it with the breath controller (you are only using 30% of the synth engine capabilities if you don't have one).

BUT 1) it's very hard to control though - you have to both play the keyboard and blow the controller at the same time, and 2) the biggest drawback is still there - dynamic note transitions still come quite unnatural, the result doesn't even match good sampled instruments.

For me it's a kind of uncanny valley of music synthesis - when individual notes are so good and undistinguishable from the original, you expect that it should also work for fast phrases, but then it ends with a big let down and you reject the whole thing as a result.

For example look at VL1 demo below - when the presenter plays saxophone phrases it ruins the whole impression...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWxCrz3vmQ


Derek Cook wrote:
Even better if this new alien synth from Yamaha revisits physical modelling and updates it for the 21st century.


They are done with physical modelling - their latest research is about spectral modelling, i.e. "modelling the perception" as opposed to "modelling the source". SCM should essentially give the same end result with a fraction of computational complexity (at playback time), though we shall see if Yamaha found a way to make a convincing realtime control model for acoustic sounds. As I sad above, it's a very hard task given one- or two-dimensional nature of keyboard controls (only velocity and aftertouch), as opposed to multi-dimensional control possible with real-world acoustinc instruments.

More on this in the CCRMA presentations quited in this post: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=653334#653334
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BasariStudios
Approved Merchant
Approved Merchant


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 6510
Location: NYC, USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synthoid wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:
Actually the MOSS-board is still sought after and in the oriental market it remains a leading player.


Maybe I can find a wealthy Asian friend to buy mine... Very Happy


I sold my MOSS Board for about 800$USD. Now i think the prices are even higher. of course if you know the market.

By the way...in all this technology people still talk about hardware keyboards? LOL

Long live my Novation SLM MK2, the ONLY keyboard i have now.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SanderXpander
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 7860

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DmitryKo wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:
Actually the MOSS-board is still sought after... I still miss the wind model in my Kronos and I never even used a breath controller


The Z1/Prophecy and the MOSS board are most famous for virtual analog synth engines.

They are basically a downscaled OASYS (the original hardware DSP board that was eventually released as the OASYS PCI card), and that's why they also included a "virtual acoustic" wind/reed model, based on the "digital waveguide synthesis" patented by Stanford's CCRMA.

I'm happy that people enjoy playing it on their keyboards, but the fact that this model was omitted from the OASYS/Kronos keyboards should speak for itself.


You're ignoring the Middle Eastern market here. I used MOSS mostly for VA and I think for sure the Prophecy was very popular for that (the Z1 not so much) but the MOSS board is still popular for Middle Eastern music especially because of the modeled string, reed and wind models. I don't see what you mean with it "should speak for itself" that they left it out of Kronos, seeing as they included many other Oasys PCI originating technologies, even going so far as STR1. Plus it's a commonly mentioned "lack" by people who come from Tritons with MOSS.

I know the Oasys PCI history quite well by the way, my friend has computers full of the cards.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bachus
Platinum Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/new-workstation-namm-2016/

With some nice information about the possibillities of a new montage...

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/reface-yc-dx-teardowns/

and the proof of the pudding, next to a new sound processor, Yamaha is also making a steup up to ARM processor technollogy for their interfacing and controll..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DmitryKo



Joined: 24 Jan 2015
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
SA2 voices, use all kinds of moddeling to reshape the samples, this moddeling technollogy is hugely based on the mathematical models used to influence the real time soundsource of the VL engine, yet in the SA2 (did you see a 2 there) they indeed are used to reshape the sample.. they are not the same moddels as the VL engine, but are based uppon them..


You still don't understand the "physical modelling" part.

Articulation Element Modeling (AEM) in SA2 Voices is still based on Advanced Wave Memory (AWM) sample-based synthesis - which is essentially subtractive synthesis model of modular analog synthesizers, where the simple sound oscillator is replaced by digital samples stored in memory and processed with interpolator/pitch shift blocks.

AEM is just a collection of clever tricks that use additional oscillators (multisamples and Element parameters) to simulate real-world effects like legato and glissando.

It's not really "physical modelling" - as in a mathematical model of some real-world object or circuit which generates the sound of the oscillator.

More here:
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/sa-and-sa2-yamahas-words/


To recap.

1. Physical modelling

VL engine uses a computational mathematical model to of a self-oscillating physical body to generate the sound. The method is called "digital waveguide" - it provides an approximate solution to the travelling wave equation of a vibrating string or horn. Since ideal strings can be considered one-dimensional (1D) solid body objects, the oscillation can be approximated with a superposition of waves that travel back and forth along its single dimension - hence the "waveguide". In practice, the waveguide model is implemented with bidirectional (two cross-faded channels) digital delay line with an attenuator (filter) between the channels - hence "digital" (i.e. sampled into digital domain). The wave impedance of the attenuator is the essential part which defines the resulting sound.

Basically this works similar to vocal reverb with a very strong feedback: 1) you sing to the microphone (on the VL: mathematically generate the sine wave and additional harmonics based on controller input), 2) the reverberator unit or reverberating room creates self-oscillating echoes that reinforce your own voice (on the VL: digital delay line adds feedback to the initial sound, making it self-oscillate) 3) when you stop singing, the echo slowly fades (on the VL: the sound stops (or slowly fades out) as you stop activating the controller).

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/pasp.html
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/Introduction_Physical_Signal_Models.html
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/Digital_Waveguide_Models.html
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/Virtual_Musical_Instruments.html#chap:instruments
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/realsimple/travelingwaves/


2. Sound generator/oscillator

All this happens in the oscillator (Voltage Controlled Oscillator in classic analog synthesizer) - the part of the synthesis engine that generates the sound at the pitch (voltage) specified by the physical controller (keyboard).

In analog subtractive synthesis, the oscillator generates simple sine, triangle and square waves. In analog formant synthesis (vocoder), the oscillator is a sum of several sinusoudal waves.

In digital synthesis, the oscillator can be a spectral model (vocoder, FM synthesis, sine+noise+transients), a physical model (virtual analog, waveguides, filter banks, or physics simulation), or sample-based subtractive synthesis engine (with pitch-shift interpolation of digital samples).


3. Subtractive synthesis

In subtractive synthesis the oscillator only generates sound waves at specified pitch. All additional signal processing - i.e. filtering - is performed outside of the oscillator. This includes sample-based subtractive synthesis.

These processing blocks that make analogue subtractive synthesis:

1) VCA (Voltage Controlled Amplifier) and AEG (Amplitude Envelope Generator) - modify sound volume according to keypress velocity, amplitute envelope (ADSR - Attack Decay Sustain Release) and/or LFO;

2) VCF (Voltage Controlled Filter) and FEG (Filter Envelope Generator) - a low-pass filter controlled by keypress velocity and/or filter envelope generator, filters out harmonic content generated by the oscillator. Can also have realtime physical controls for cutoff frequency, resonance, and envelope.

3) LFO (Low Frequency Oscillator) - provides additional control source(s) for VCA/VCF.

Again, physical modelling has none of these functional blocks. Instead of shaping/filtering the harmonic content generated by a simple oscillator according to key velocity, LFOs or EGs, it generate the required sound in the oscillator itself - though it's typically a very complex oscillator which takes a lot of parameters, realtime controls, and even dedicated processing units, and it has very high computational complexity which limits the maximum polyphony.


4. Sample-based subtractive synthesis

Digital sample-based synthesis is functionally similar to analog subtractive synthesis, but it has a significant advantage - much larger parameter memory, which allows multitimbral operation and increased polyphony essentially "for free".

The principal processing blocks are the functional analogs of analog subtractive synthesis:

1a) Oscillator/AEG - in sample-based subtractive synthesis, the oscillator needs to interpolate between samples to generate a pitch shift from the sample frequency (specified at sampling time) to the target frequency (pitch) defined by key number. The amplitude envelope can have additional control points, such as Decay1/Hold/Decay2, which can also have both time and amplitude.

2a) Filter/FEG - digital sample-based synths have many types of filters including resonant (self-oscillating) filters, and can also have additional envelope parameters.

3a) LFO - digital synths can have multiple LFOs routed to each other to generate complex modulations.


5. Patch parameter storage

Because every patch (program, Voice) parameter can be in local memory, a 16 note (voice) polyphonic digital sampling synth - which is capable of reading back 16 separate sample memory blocks and having 16 interpolator/pitch shift units - can be at the same time 16-part multi-timbral, i.e. can play back 16 separate programs at once, since it holds the data for all of them; sending these to the tone generator chip is instant.

Recent digital sample-based synthesizers have even more parameter memory - thanks to hundreds of megabytes of local RAM - and enormous amounts of flash-based or RAM-based sample memory (up to several gigabytes). This makes possible 1) lots of velocity layers - not just multisamples, where key banks have separate samples for a range of notes and keypress velocities, but also separate oscillator settings - Elements of each Voice in Yamaha's language, which also include above-mentioned AEG, filter and FEG, LFO, and effect processor routings.

This means that 128 voices (Notes) of polyphony allow quite complex programs (Voices) constructed from several oscillators (Elements) sounding all at once, and it won't have an adverse effect on polyphony.


6. Articulation Element Modelling

Now to Super Articulation 2 Voices. The specs idicate that Tyros3/4/5 and related Clavinovas are still based on Advanced Wave Memory (AWM) tone generator, i.e. the familiar sample-based subtractive synthesis engine described above, there are samples (stored in flash memory) played back by AWM tone generator chip.

SA2 programs (Voices) are really made from additional samples for playback effects, each with separate oscillator settings (Elements in Yamaha language). There are probably a few additional Elements, or some additional parameters in the existing Elements, which are triggered when the OS detects legato, staccato, bending, breathing, etc. Yamaha calls it "Articulation Element Modelling" (AEM).

AEM is not physical modelling, as in "mathematical model of a real-world physical object, used to generate the sound in the oscillator". The sound source in AWM tone generator still comes from pre-recorded and pre-processed multisamples stored in permanent memory, with velocity and note ranges and dedicated AEG/FEG/Filter/LFO/FX settings that make an Element, where a collection of these multisample/settings (Elements) makes up a program (Voice).


In Yamaha's own words:

http://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/digitalpianos/cvp_series/cvp-509/
    Articulation Element Modeling (AEM) Technology

    AEM is Yamaha’s proprietary tone generation technology. AEM selects, in real time, the optimal sampled data for the piece being performed, recreating the smooth, natural sounds of acoustical instruments. AEM is used in some of the Super Articulation Voices.

http://usa.yamaha.com/news_events/pianos_keyboard/yamahas-tyros3-arranger-workstation-takes-keyboards-to-a-new-realm-of-realism/
    Super Articulation 2, created with Articulation Element Modeling, is capable of reproducing natural legato and staccato expression, vibrato, pitch bend and glistening glissando passages. The feature builds on Yamaha's legendary MegaVoice technology, which added an element of humanistic playing techniques to recorded instrument samples. For the guitar, these include muted string sounds, finger slides, fret noises and harmonics. Wind instrument voices include the ability to add strategically placed breaths that sound like a person is performing, from passages played on clarinets and saxophones to the bent notes of a harmonica.


Last edited by DmitryKo on Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Latest News All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 18, 19, 20  Next
Page 3 of 20

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group