Korg Forums

[fcoulter]

[Bachus]

[SanderXpander]

I actually agree (kinda) with Kevin on the piano haha. I started to resent it and it's part of why I sold it. But yes I was talking abiut the Nord inteface which is still unsurpassed to me. It's partly because there are fewer parameters on it but what they've made is incredibly elegant.

That's what I mean about the ease of programming too, Jeremy. The Kronos isn't complicated to me at all, I know exactly how to make it do what I want. But menu diving and constantly switching pages is just a different experience and leads you in different directions than "instant assignment" like on the Nord (and possibly Montage).

[Kevin Nolan]

I should qualify - it was about 2 years ago then I tried both the Electro and Stage. I was genuinely shocked at how bad the acoustic and CP pianos were.

I concede they may have improved significantly in the 2 years or so I tried them.

and I'm not trolling here - I was really disappointed because otherwise I think these are amazing format instruments (and love my Nord Lead 2 )

[Derek Cook]

[Kevin Nolan]

Vintage Nord !!

We really are in a new era

[JPROBERTLA]

Although I am not a NORD fan, as I prefer modeling engines over samplers, one cannot easily dismiss them considering how many are used by professional and semi-professional players alike. It can't just be there size and weight!
_________________
JP
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Kronos2-88, Behringer XR18, Turbosound IP2000 (x2), dbx DriveRack 260, KRK Rokit 8s, Mackie CFX16, Mackie SRM450(x2), Mackie SRS1500 (x2), BBE processors (x4), Roland VSR 880 (x2), Alto TS210, Alto TX10 (x3) and SoundForge

[Kevin Nolan]

Well, as said, my encounter with them was 2-3 years ago - so while I'm not bang up to date, 2-3 years is not all that long ago.

And I'm being quite genuine when I say this - the lower and upper end (in particular) of the Nord acoustic piano programs were clearly and obviously pitch shifted samples form only a few sample points per octave - and the dynamic velocity cross fading what horrendous.

The Pianos ROM on my K2500XS from 1995 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the Nord Stage and Electro from around 2014 in these regards.

As for the CP80 on the Nords - it is equally poor. Literally, the CP80 on my JD800 Pianos ROM from 1991 is noticeably better.

In my opinion, the Nord Stage and Electro ARE popular because of their iconic look - I think that any up and coming band feels they need to be seen with one.

There's also the "stage / rock piano" syndrome going on here - as in - some manufacturers like Roland seem to have achieved success because of their "Rock Piano" being liked because it cuts through in live gigs, while Yamaha, whose digital pianos are more natural pianistically, are not favored as much on stage because they don't sound as good for rock piano (where rock piano essentially means a bright, full sound with less dynamics, or a need for dynamics (as needed in classical playing)).

So the Nord's are likely favored by rock keyboard players because the have a preference toward rock sound. I'd be confident however, that if you looked in the recordings of any major act who uses a Nord on stage, that the actual recordings were done using real acoustic pianos, and not Nords.

[SanderXpander]

Honestly I don't know a single player who favors Roland pianos over Yamaha. A large part of Motif and CP sales is driven by people who need good pianos that cut through the mix.

I wouldn't go so far to say that the Nords don't beat a 90s Kurz sample though, as iconic as that board is. The look of the Nord definitely helps for brand identity but in my experience (having played one and knowing many players who still do) they're succesful because:

1. The pianos sound good and big at an initial listening session. I played an S90ES and a Stage next to each other at the time and the Nord CLEARLY won.
2. A good selection of quality bread and butter keyboard sounds with very little "fluff". You won't find marimba or gong samples on there but most important keyboard sounds are done well, with some clearly beating the competition (especially pre-Kronos/Motif XF).
3. A good FX section that's instantly understandable and easy to set up.
4. The interface, oh man, that interface. It really is a joy to play. Sometimes I still miss it. For jamming with a band where you don't need a million different sounds it's really great. For someone who puts a lot of value in live control/expression this should really not be underestimated.
5. Free sounds forever. Especially with the later Stages with more memory this is really useful for that one time you do need a marimba.

[Kevin Nolan]

And so the debate begins

as said - the models I tried were from 2 - 3 years ago - but - let me make myself very clear - the pianos on the Stage and Electro I played were _significantly_ worse than the K2500XS ROM. I didn't even need to try to listen for the quality issues - they leaped out at me.

The samples, tone, velocity cross fading - all features were instantly noticeably far worse. They were, by a country mile, the worst pianos I had come across since the early 1990's romplers like the M1 and SY77.

No argument on the control surface - but I left my audition session (planning to buy one) literally in shock. I would never, ever buy one. I think they look fantastic and the control surface is fabulous, but the pianos - all of them - even the Fender Rhodes were shocking and atrocious.

2-3 years ago - perhaps they have improved - but I'm talking around 2014 (can't remember the exact date). I even brought in my Sennheiser HD650 headphones to be sure I could listen with superlative quality. I could even hear quantization noise - that's how bad both models were!

I'll say it again - the pianos were pathetic - all of them.

[Jan1]

I think many hoped that the Montage would include more of this.
Even today that synth looks beautiful. Now that Yamaha is looking back at technologies of the past in order to bring them forward to today I certainly hope they will not overlook their physical modeling technology.

[SanderXpander]

I think it's useless then to debate this any further, as, in addition to myself, I know a host of professional keyboard players who patently disagree. That has nothing to do with a "cool factor" or the red color. But you're entitled to your opinion, of course.