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Moss vs 9 engines
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Aziz1008
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 344
Location: Russia, Moscow

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:06 pm    Post subject: Moss vs 9 engines Reply with quote

I find that old MOSS board in my Triton Extreme 76 has some features, not availiable in Kronos.. How can I create formant timbres of human voices (AEIOU Choir, Laughter) and speech in Kronos? Also I couldn't replace MOSS sax sound (Blue SAX) with any sax sound in Kronos. They sound just too "recorded " and static..

So it seems like MOSS will never be beaten) With MOSS I can have a synthesized fat man shouting loud in the middle of my mix)

And the second question is what Sondius-XG label on the back on my Kronos refers to? I know that it is the name of someone who invented MOSS. So does it mean that Kronos has some of MOSS technology inside?
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Aziz1008
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Location: Russia, Moscow

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speech emulation is based mainly upon filter manipulation. So in Kronos compared to MOSS, one essential type of filter is not present: Dual BP (Dual Band pass), which can synthesize human formants. So it is my addition to my Kronos wishlist - to program such a filter for Kronos..
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Aziz1008
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Location: Russia, Moscow

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what I'm trying to say is that you should keep your old instruments)
It is not like that new is always supreme, and old is bad. They are is just different.. Complimenting each other. I always play my TEX through Kronos inputs.
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aziz1008 wrote:
Speech emulation is based mainly upon filter manipulation. So in Kronos compared to MOSS, one essential type of filter is not present: Dual BP (Dual Band pass), which can synthesize human formants. So it is my addition to my Kronos wishlist - to program such a filter for Kronos..


Abracadabra - your wish is granted! Go to the Filter page in the HD-1, AL-1, or STR-1, select Parallel routing, and select band-pass filters for both filters A and B. You can do this in the MOD-7 as well, but setup is a little different: create the parallel routing using the patch panel.
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Dan Phillips
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Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
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LZ
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Joined: 02 May 2007
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Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I'm not in front of my Kronos now, but if I'm not mistaken, isn't there a Formant filter IFX? It might not be called that, but it's in there.
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danatkorg
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LZ wrote:
Also, I'm not in front of my Kronos now, but if I'm not mistaken, isn't there a Formant filter IFX? It might not be called that, but it's in there.


Yes - 021: Talking Modulator.
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Dan Phillips
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For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
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80salife
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Joined: 14 Jan 2002
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Moss vs 9 engines Reply with quote

Aziz1008 wrote:
I find that old MOSS board in my Triton Extreme 76 has some features, not availiable in Kronos..


Thats I hold on my good old Trinity V3 and looking for a Triton extreme 88 with mossboard... Mossboard is unbeatable, brilliance and punch in every sound...
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Aziz1008
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015
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Location: Russia, Moscow

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dan for your abracadabra!) But in MOSS there are actually two dual bandpass filters, working in parallel, so it can create 4 formants, which will require 4 single bandpass filters on Kronos, which are not available. Also I tried to create something like that MOSS program on K, but it just doesn't come off.. Anyway, it's much more complicated.. May be I need some patience\practice..

Last edited by Aziz1008 on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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Aziz1008
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Location: Russia, Moscow

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here's a challenge: - can anyone program such a human voice timbre on Kronos for me? If it is that easy..) PS - not using any sample layers..
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SanderXpander
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Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have my Extreme with MOSS and enjoy the few things it can do that the Kronos doesn't. But I would never say it "can't be beaten", they're just different products. I couldn't imagine having to go out with my Extreme after working with the Kronos for a few years. It's so far ahead of the Extreme in almost every area that it's a really unfair comparison. I will admit that I don't need synthesized fat man voices very often.

I say enjoy MOSS for what it does and don't project it on the Kronos.

As for the Sondius XG, I believe some Kronos engines share code or are like improved versions of MOSS algorithms. The analog ones and STR1 for sure.
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Aziz1008
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015
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Location: Russia, Moscow

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, yes, may be it's STR1 engine..

Surely, Kronos is superior in sound quality and other respects, but I projected it because everyone I know who got Kronos, always sold their Tritons. And this forum indicates this tendency very clearly - just look at individual scriptures under each post, where people list their current and past gear.
So one may think that Kronos encompasses right everything Triton and MOSS offered, and it is of no more use having them and it can be sold.
And this post is to clarify that it doesn't.
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aziz1008 wrote:
Thanks Dan for your abracadabra!) But in MOSS there are actually two dual bandpass filters, working in parallel, so it can create 4 formants, which will require 4 single bandpass filters on Kronos, which are not available. Also I tried to create something like that MOSS program on K, but it just doesn't come off.. Anyway, it's much more complicated.. May be I need some patience\practice..


It's quite easy to implement four parallel band-pass filters by using two AL-1 together, with the oscillators in both AL-1 instances configured identically.

The previously mentioned Talking Modulator effect will also bring instant results; I'd try it and see if it does what you are looking for.

And yes - patience and practice always help!
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
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Aziz1008
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Location: Russia, Moscow

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for this hint! It seems it can do the trick.. Later I'll explore it.
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Current hardware: Kronos-1 61+1GB RAM+2nd HDD 320 Gb, Triton Extreme 76+MOSS+RAM+dual microSD to CF adapter+64 Gb microSD card, Roland GW7, Casio WK-3300, Casio CTK-631, Farfisa child synth, laptop HP Envy dv7 16Gb ram, Core-i7, 128 SSD+720 GB HDD, E-MU 0202 USB Audio Interface.
Midi: M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, E-MU X-Board 61, launchpad mini, 3 Korg nano controllers, AKAI LPD+LPK, Behringer C2000.
My Kronos wish-list: www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=661561#661561
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timbukktwo
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Joined: 09 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I struggled to be sure that when I bought my Kronos, I wouldn't have to sell my TEX/Moss! I will never part with these till they die!
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Aziz1008
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Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 344
Location: Russia, Moscow

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have tried exploring filters but couldn't make filter 2 of the same instance of AL-1 work in parallel with filter 1. It is active only in sequental mode and had no effect in parallel. Do I miss something in my setup?
_________________
Current hardware: Kronos-1 61+1GB RAM+2nd HDD 320 Gb, Triton Extreme 76+MOSS+RAM+dual microSD to CF adapter+64 Gb microSD card, Roland GW7, Casio WK-3300, Casio CTK-631, Farfisa child synth, laptop HP Envy dv7 16Gb ram, Core-i7, 128 SSD+720 GB HDD, E-MU 0202 USB Audio Interface.
Midi: M-Audio Keystation Pro 88, E-MU X-Board 61, launchpad mini, 3 Korg nano controllers, AKAI LPD+LPK, Behringer C2000.
My Kronos wish-list: www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=661561#661561
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