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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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 Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:05 pm Post subject: (Unlimmited expandabillity) |
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How important is expandabillity for you in an arranger.
Are you happy with just the stock sounds and styles?
Or would you like to add a whole shebang of your own high quallity or 3rd party sounds, styles, pads and songs?
Korg has the inhouse technollogy to create an instrument with near limitless expandabillity (as we have seen in the Kronos), yet its still not clear if most of that (and i am talking diskstreaming samples and sounds) has made it to the Pa4x..
For me these features would mean the whole difference... |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1852
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: (Unlimmited expandabillity) |
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| Bachus wrote: | | How important is expandabillity for you in an arranger... |
Not so important, as quality of music made with arrangers is not better with a greater stock of sounds and styles.
It is more interesting to get direct-access to sounds and parameters of each style-track or functions of style-player to be able for variable, intuitive playing and not to be restricted to fixed preferences or fixed characteristics of tracks in performances or soundbooks.
Instead expandability it would be better to re-install lost functions (Auto-Select, Fill-Mode) and missing buttons to get better direct-access to sounds and parameters during live-play or style-play.
Would be better thinking about additional functions one can trigger during styleplay/songplay, like mute/unmute or changing sound or effects or style-tracks or grouped-style-tracks etc.
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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nitecrawler
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 978
Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Expandibility is good. Being a little pressed for time in the day to do any major tweeking, premade styles and sounds would be good.
To be honest, most all I need for my gigs is covered although more country and country rock feels would be good. 
_________________
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=807494
Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1852
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:40 pm Post subject: Expandibility - or organization of existing material |
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| nitecrawler wrote: | | Expandibility is good. |
It would be good to tweak and to improve existing sounds and styles. Also it would be good to get more styles for ones individual needs - but i think that is nothing called expandibility of the overall amount of styles and sounds.
It is the poor organization (missing tools of organization) of these elements that makes us believe this one needs an expansion - but is not necessary to expand amounts of them.
Listening to performances of artists done with arrangerkeyboards, one would hear most of them use at least 10 % of amounts of existing styles and sounds and maybe more than 90 % are reposing in a memory cemetery (never used, never changed factory-settings - but existing in large memories).
And same situation you can find in arrangerkeyboards of people using their instruments in her retirement (like me) - with full-filled usermemories - and the fear that something would be lost if one would change something or reorganizate memory.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Expandibility - or organization of existing material |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | nitecrawler wrote: | | Expandibility is good. |
It would be good to tweak and to improve existing sounds and styles. Also it would be good to get more styles for ones individual needs - but i think that is nothing called expandibility of the overall amount of styles and sounds.
It is the poor organization (missing tools of organization) of these elements that makes us believe this one needs an expansion - but is not necessary to expand amounts of them.
Listening to performances of artists done with arrangerkeyboards, one would hear most of them use at least 10 % of amounts of existing styles and sounds and maybe more than 90 % are reposing in a memory cemetery (never used, never changed factory-settings - but existing in large memories).
And same situation you can find in arrangerkeyboards of people using their instruments in her retirement (like me) - with full-filled usermemories - and the fear that something would be lost if one would change something or reorganizate memory. |
I totally disagree with you....
While its great that you can edit the available content to your heartsdelight... Expendabillity is what should make a TOTL arranger rise above the rest of the arranger market..
For some people arrangers are much less about replaying the standard sounds but about creating their own sound and performances. And creating new sounds from new samples is an important step in that process, espescially for Korg arrangers that are much more pro performer oriented then Yamaha..
In my opinion Every player has different needs and by making an arranger expandable, you allow people to add the comtent they need, creating an arranger that allows them to do exactly what they want on stage .. |
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nitecrawler
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 978
Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Expandibility - or organization of existing material |
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| siebenhirter wrote: | | nitecrawler wrote: | | Expandibility is good. |
It would be good to tweak and to improve existing sounds and styles. Also it would be good to get more styles for ones individual needs - but i think that is nothing called expandibility of the overall amount of styles and sounds.
It is the poor organization (missing tools of organization) of these elements that makes us believe this one needs an expansion - but is not necessary to expand amounts of them.
Listening to performances of artists done with arrangerkeyboards, one would hear most of them use at least 10 % of amounts of existing styles and sounds and maybe more than 90 % are reposing in a memory cemetery (never used, never changed factory-settings - but existing in large memories).
And same situation you can find in arrangerkeyboards of people using their instruments in her retirement (like me) - with full-filled usermemories - and the fear that something would be lost if one would change something or reorganizate memory. |
I agree basically. I would say most users are not fully utilizing their boards. I know I don't. Conversely, one should not fear losing memory with the availability of download and storage means at their disposal. Some folks may be frustrated with the amount that their machines will hold at any one time, but that is a different issue.
_________________
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=807494
Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors |
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Giner
Platinum Member
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 1347
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be happy if a 'Western' version of Korg came out. We have the 'Musikant' and 'OR' versions for those markets, that's fair enough. But we're way short on rock, pop, and country styles. Why do I need Ciftetellis, Yahde's, Horas, loads of Schlagers, etc.? Short answer, I don't.
Sure we can replace all the stuff we don't use, but a lot of third party styles just aren't up to snuff. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a 'western' version that came jam packed with quality factory styles from the get-go? I guess we're a minority market by comparison.
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When I nod my head . . . Hit it!
Pa3x-61, Pa1xPro, i30, Micromoog (1975) |
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1852
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Expandibility - or organization of existing material |
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| Bachus wrote: | | .. my opinion Every player has different needs and by making an arranger expandable, you allow people to add the comtent they need, creating an arranger that allows them to do exactly what they want on stage .. |
First you mentioned disk streaming in contex with expandability.
Disk streaming means fast loading times for samples - nothing else.
Now you mentioned, to be able to edit the available content that is expandibility. But that is nothing new with Pa-Keyboards - editing styles and sounds to create ones personal sound, style and performance is most important for ones needs by making an arranger expandable. You could do that with tools of Pa-Keyboards since more than 10 years - without disk streaming.
Seems the word "disk streaming" enchante the idea here to get something eminently important for a better sound. If it really would be important is possible to judge if one can hear results depending on disk streaming system embedded in an overall solution.
Playing a big set of any sample buffered in RAM while the rest is streaming up from disk only means to use same procedure as one did years ago with standard procedure of ones DAW.
_________________
kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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nitecrawler
Platinum Member
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 978
Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Giner wrote: | I'd be happy if a 'Western' version of Korg came out. We have the 'Musikant' and 'OR' versions for those markets, that's fair enough. But we're way short on rock, pop, and country styles. Why do I need Ciftetellis, Yahde's, Horas, loads of Schlagers, etc.? Short answer, I don't.
Sure we can replace all the stuff we don't use, but a lot of third party styles just aren't up to snuff. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a 'western' version that came jam packed with quality factory styles from the get-go? I guess we're a minority market by comparison. |
I agree totally Giner! I think you are probably right that we find ourselves on the wrong side of the demographic fence on this one. Props to the middle eastern and oriental factions. From appearances on Utube and other media, they seem to be much more active in style and sound manufacturing than we do. That may have helped nudge Korg into creating the Musikant and Oriental versions.
More current styles in Country, Rock, Country Rock, R n B and Soul would suit me fine
_________________
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=807494
Montage M7, Pa5x76, Nautilus, PA3Xle, Oasys 76, Mini-Moog, EMU Audity 2000, Motion Sound KBR 3D amp, Presonus and Reaper DAW W/Tannoy Reveal 501A powered monitors |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Giner wrote: | I'd be happy if a 'Western' version of Korg came out. We have the 'Musikant' and 'OR' versions for those markets, that's fair enough. But we're way short on rock, pop, and country styles. Why do I need Ciftetellis, Yahde's, Horas, loads of Schlagers, etc.? Short answer, I don't.
Sure we can replace all the stuff we don't use, but a lot of third party styles just aren't up to snuff. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a 'western' version that came jam packed with quality factory styles from the get-go? I guess we're a minority market by comparison. |
If you have unlimmited (more then enough) expandabillity when it comes to sounds. You could just have expansion packs for all those localised versions... Much easier then buildin stuff and versions dor every country... |
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Giner
Platinum Member
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 1347
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Sure, that would work for me. Funny thing, but with sounds I doubt I use more than 30 for everyday gigs. Just the staple pianos, EPs, organs, guitars, brasses, and that's about it.
_________________
When I nod my head . . . Hit it!
Pa3x-61, Pa1xPro, i30, Micromoog (1975) |
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Dikikeys
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure what the point of the OP is. Arrangers already ARE expandable.
The difference between them comes from how easily we can USE the expandability... Do we have to load up the content first before we can use it, or does everything hang on an attached SSD or USB2 stick, instantly accessible to the user and the Songbook/Performance structure?
Expandability is only as good as the speed of access, IMHO.
The trouble comes when you start to compare the best of the ROM sounds and styles with what's available from 3rd party developers. Without an easily used content protection structure system, the entire 3rd party content industry is under attack from rampant piracy. Without some way to get PAID for creating it, what incentive to talented musician/programmers have to make it?
And so we have today's dilemma. What's the POINT of huge expansion potential, when little usable or high quality content exists? Sure, you can protect one SET on an SD card. But that's it... you can't mix and match, you can't load multiple protected SETs, and there's no protection for styles at all.
Korg need a system like the iTunes store, where protected content can be bought, and edits can be stored (without an external drive, which would break the protection). Without this, we end up with today's poor choice, overblown prices (if a content creator knows 90% of who uses his creation get it for free, he HAS to charge more for it) and little that seriously opens up the general usability of the sampler section. |
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