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Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

double post...

Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

KONNECTORAS · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:43 am Post subject:

Dikikeys · Guest

Eduardo_Arg · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject:

Hi Bachus and friends:

Please forgive me is i ofend you with my POV.-
I don't want to say you are a lazy man; what happens is that i've been playing different since last 25 years, so it's for me crystal clear that if i want to get the best of any keyboard, i must invest really too much hours.-
As you, i exchange my time between my work (lawyer) and my band (as a half proffesional member), and again as you, when i reach home from work or on rehearsals what i want is sitting down and play.-
It's true that time is only one, and never enough to do what we want.-
Although, i reach that it's neccesary to destinate at least one o two hours a day to know in deep my instrument and get all he could give.-
About potentially of Korg instrument, there is any doubt about it's enormus posibilities.- Multisamples are in some way a personal taste; since 90's till i get my first Triton, i allways said Roland acoustic pianos are the best of the best.- But since i bought my first Korg, everything was keept in doubt.-
Then i bought M3, and since then Roland loose his crown to Korg.-
Last week i must play a Roland RD700Nx with it's "supernatural", and been honest, Kronos German Grand Piano is years light from Roland (at least for my ears), Strings, Choirs, and Acoustic Guitar (just as example) are billons years light from Roland.-
New sound engine on PA4x is quite similar as Krome, the small brother of Kronos, and never forget that with Korg you can create "your sound" anytime from point 0.-
Every musician must agree with it's instrument in all senses, my keyboard it's a part of my body, so if i want to play right, i must feel confortably with it.- Till now, only Korg let me feel really confortably.-
I'm not your or anybody enemie, just i've a different point of view.-
With regards.
Eduardo
_________________
Korg Kronos 2 88 - Korg PA4x 76 - Roland Fantom 08 - Korg N1R Sound Module - Korg 05RW Sound Module - Roland UM550 Edirol Midi Patchbay Amp pair SWR California Blonde II

Dikikeys · Guest

Apples to apples, please, Eduardo. It's hardly fair to compare an arranger's sounds to the TOTL Workstation. Especially in one direction. There are MANY arranger sounds (particularly those that use DNC/SA2/SN) that blow some of the Kronos's sounds away.

It isn't all a one way street!

You've also compared an older Roland with the latest Korg. Surely an RD800/Kronos would be better or fairer a comparison? Not to mention price. An extra grand ought to get you SOMETHING, surely! Rolling Eyes

But, on an arranger forum, it's a bit disingenuous to compare WS sounds with an arranger's. The WS, no matter how good the raw sounds, will never be able to do what an arranger does. And, for an arranger user, that's pretty much IT... It don't MATTER how good the sounds are if it don't play styles!

We've been stuck in this 'Why doesn't an arranger have everything a WS does?' whine-fest for years (decades!), but the same people complaining seem aghast at even the price of a Tyros5, and there is NO WAY you can stick two TOTL products together and the price not be almost the sum of them both! Sure, if there were a market for an $8000 arranger, you might see one, but let's be honest...

There isn't. At least, not in sufficient numbers to make it worth while.

The solution is easy. As you have found out. BUY BOTH...! Twisted Evil

Arranger players are so strange... You really don't see many people on WS forums complaining that it isn't an arranger AS WELL, despite many of what the arranger stuff would add being quite useful. Somehow, those people seem to understand they are different FOR A REASON.

Why do we have such an issue with that? Wink

karmathanever · Platinum Member Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10418

Dikikeys · Guest

T5, from my understanding, uses Flash RAM... a type of RAM that DOESN'T lose its data when you switch the arranger off. So it isn't actually loading anything, it is like old fashioned ROM. It is instantly ready as soon as the device is ready to go. There is no streaming...

Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

KONNECTORAS · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:22 am Post subject:

There is a major difference between actual loading time and boot time.

Load time stands for the initial load of the user samples in the keyboard.
While boot time is the time the keyboard needs to start operating, with the samples already loaded from a previous session.

So if you try to load 2BG samples in Tyros 5, you might need some hours.
But next time boot time will be some seconds.
It is flash rom rules there...

AntonySharmman · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:04 am Post subject:

I want to remind all you that any flash memory even latest SSD's speed is at least 1000 times slower than required samples read speed
for real time reproduction , except DDR Ram or the expensive photographic layers nand flash Rom of macronix (read only).

All latest sample keyboards are definatenly loading the real time reproduced samples in an existing board Ram and only loading method differs !
- Fast booting devices never load samples during booting but always load instantly the currently selected sounds into ram (insufficient).
- Korg and Music production computer systems are loading all attack portions of samples into Ram.
- Korg DFD keyboards like Kronos /Pa4X do it during booting time , copying saved in HD samples attack portions into Ram to be ready
for reproduction as the latest streaming method and there is no previous state of loaded samples ...

Therefore do not confuse where portions of samples are saved with the actual tranfering into Ram procedure while booting or during
currently selected samples , 'cause always a board DDR Ram participates in real time reproduction of samples !

Hope this helps !
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

400nvd

Hi all,
With regard to the SD card slot.

MicroSD card slot (card not included) allows for mass storage and data protection

http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/pa4x/

Does this mean protected resources (sounds and styles) will become available from Korg and / or 3rd parties.

Anybody?

Noël
_________________
Noël
Nord Stage 3, Korg PA4x,
HK Elements, HK Nano iPad pro

Eduardo_Arg · Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:19 pm Post subject:

Hi Noel:

I'm not sure microsd will destinate for resources as it was used on Krome.-
Unfortunatelly this as ssd capacity are a Korg secret.-
Just for the recors, next monday i'll go to a private demo of PA4x, so after that i'll tell what's about it.-
With regards.
Eduardo
_________________
Korg Kronos 2 88 - Korg PA4x 76 - Roland Fantom 08 - Korg N1R Sound Module - Korg 05RW Sound Module - Roland UM550 Edirol Midi Patchbay Amp pair SWR California Blonde II

AntonySharmman

Eduardo_Arg · Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:40 pm Post subject:

Hi Friends:

Just arrive from a private demo of PA4x, and my first impression is a serious WS arranger.-
The keybed is similar as i have on my M3, responds very well on high speed riff.-
The sound is absolutly great, and articulations (DNC) are extraordinary, although piano sound is really good, krome grandpiano is better.-
For the demo, there was: 1) Pa3x; 2) Pa4x; 3) Krome (73); all of keyboards are conected to a Presonus 16.4.2, and there was 2 amp units: 1) Bose L1 (2 separate units), 2) Roland KC 550 (2 separate units).- In all testdrive equalization was flat.-
Comparision: PA3x with PA4x: Pa4x is +1db than PA3x, and Sound Engine of PA4x is for far better than PA3x, i mean all type of instrument.- Sax sound are impresive and DNC articulations are fantastic.- Drum sounds are also better, simple they sound like a real drummer.-
Comparision: PA4x with Krome: Krome sound output is equal as PA4x (+1db than PA3x).- Sound Engine is better, perhaps because of it's extender multisamples.- Although, wind instruments sounds better on PA4x than Krome.- Piano of Krome is better than PA4x, and i think that multisamples used are identically as Kronos.-
Boot time is less than PA3x (a few seconds).-
LCD screen if far away better than PA3x, it responds instantly to the touch, also using finger (not the nail).- Color combinations are more efficient than PA3x, also in absolute darkness.-
LCD manual operation IMHO looks better than motorized one in PA3x.- You can place it in your right position, and minimize fails of a motorized.-
Screen size is the same as PA3x' it appear bigger because of it's flat design.- At the back of screen you can see 2 gears (left and right) so it seams that mantains firm the screen.-
About construction, PA4x looks strong.- It's not lightweight as Krome (8 kg vs 15 Kg. PA4x).-
About sound, PA4x is crystal clear, with better response in bass frequencys than PA3x, something that you will notice with drums.- In this aspect final sound is nearly Krome's one.- For this test alternately sound engenier directs output of Presonus to KC550 and Bose L1; with KC550 bass sounds were strongest than with bose, but on mid or high frequencys with Bose, (f. example) Nylon Guitars sound as a real one.-
Sound Edit mode, is very similar as what you see on PA3x with 3 MFIX instead of 2.- Something is missing: a good external sound editor as Krome Editor; edit a sound or effects is more complex on PA4x screen than if you do it on a PC screen; but seems Korg don't agree do develope such editor for PA4x, a nonsense if you consider that users may take more advance of this keyboard with a good sound editor (external).-
Finally IMHO PA4x is the best arranger ever made, ergonomical well design (not as Tyros), and with a powerfull sound engine.- Although is not for me (because i can't take advantage of styles), i must admit this unit is excellent.-
Hoping this helps everybody who will upgrade it's unit o begin with a real prof arranger, with regards. Eduardo
_________________
Korg Kronos 2 88 - Korg PA4x 76 - Roland Fantom 08 - Korg N1R Sound Module - Korg 05RW Sound Module - Roland UM550 Edirol Midi Patchbay Amp pair SWR California Blonde II