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chinard · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:09 pm Post subject:

Slight topic shift, but here's a hypothetical question for you guys.

IF bush had been a democrat, and knowing the mistakes he's made and the mistakes he is accused of, WOULD you still support him? Be honest!

I think that if clinton had done or was accused of those things you would be all over him like a bad suit.
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londonlad · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject:

cnegrad,
I didn't post that statement in an attempt to insult you.
I genuinely do find it supprising that you support Bush and the war.

McHale · Guest

dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb...

WMD in Iraq do not, never did, never will exist because we haven't found them yet (forget the fact he had already used them, threatened to use them again, and refused to cooperate with your all-powerful UN and weapons inspectors for 10 years).

So, Usama Bin Laden does not, will not, and never did exist because we haven't found him yet?

No WONDER nobody takes the UN seriously...

I'll say it again. The people of the USA will vote Bush 4 more years in November. And thank God, other countries can't vote. We'd end up with Michael Jackson or Michael Moore...

-Mc

londonlad · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject:

chinard · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject:

RiotNrrd · Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:46 pm Post subject:

The "War On Terror" is such a red-herring.

In 2003, the number of terrorism related INJURIES worldwide was 3646 (source: http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a0w7ptTduf8U&refer=us).

In 2003, the number of FATALITIES caused by automobile accidents in the United States alone was 38491 (source: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/).

Let's restate that: In 2003 there more than 10 times as many fatalities due to auto accidents in the US alone as injuries caused by terrorism across the entire globe.

The question being asked shouldn't be "What will the president do in his war on terror?" The question should be "What will the president do about road safety?"

The threat of terrorism is a means of inducing fear in the populace. It is nowhere near as real a threat to the average person as the politicians would like you to think. If you are more concerned about terrorism than you are about road safety - in other words, if your fear of terrorism is out of balance with the actual dangers that are statistically FAR more likely to affect you - congratulations! You are a patsy who is being played like a piano.

EJ2 · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:45 am Post subject:

Why are people around the world decrying the "Death of Democracy"? Could it be that some of us are not too blind to see it coming? Anyway, these are not attacks on the American people. s**t, Bush and Chaney have already unwittingly done enough of that.

I don't think I can remember a time when there was so much mistrust, aversion and anger against any President of the United States by so many people from other (so called) free countries around the globe. That speaks volumes. I think American citizens might be wise to listen to what the rest of the world is saying. You cannot insulate yourself. You cannot go it alone. You cannot run the show singlehandedly.

And now for a laugh. Here's something that was linked over at the Access Virus Forum. Listen to this. It's the first mp3 up, Called Death of Democracy: http://www.hz37land.com/examples.php

Remember, this is not an attack on the American People. It's a satirical poke at a misguided leader.
Cheers,
Eric
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Odinmoon · Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:12 am Post subject:

Sorry I had to come back. This post is getting a little nasty. I think everyone has a right to an opinion. No need to make it personal. There is always two sides to the coin. If we decide that the UN is not strong it because of countries not conforming. If we all decided to go it alone like the US then we would be attacking our neighbours for any reason. What if All the countries in the world decided to do what the US did. We would have more than a third world war. We all need to work together. That's democracy. In Democratic countries you don't always get what you want. But we have to all work on a common goal. Terrorism. All the US has done is isolated countries and lost a lot of friends. As an Australian speaking for my self. I really like Americans I love the films the music the culture. I probably would even like Bush maybe to have a round of golf or a chat at a dinner table. But its Bush's polices that frighten me. I'm deeply ashamed that my own government went on the same path. Only because In Australia we are very vulnerable. We are very isolated. Bush said you are with us or against us. That did not give us much choice. We have been bombed now. Why? It didn't happen before. America has brought us to fight. For What? Why are we in Iraq? we have Indonesian terrorist to worry about on our home front. Bush is not a good leader in the battle against terrorism. And I'm not saying Kerry is. But to me anybody would be better than Bush. He shoots first and asks questions later.

regards Terry
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londonlad · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:55 am Post subject:

I had to come back too.
I would like to talk directly to the members from the States here...
I think there is a common misconception within certain quarters of the US public that attacks on Bush are attacks on America.
This simply isn't true.
Within Britain there is a great respect for the USA, there is a good friendship between the two countries, and I know from family members what your intervention during WWII meant. And I also know that even before you joined in and 'kicked some Kraut ass!" Wink

that the US supported the allies with supplies and money, coz trust me, times were hard, and we needed it.
The thing is, with this in mind, it actually makes it harder to see your nation being destroyed, and losing respect from within by a bad president and administration.
The world really is very unhappy with current events regarding the US. I would, at a guess, say that 80% of the public here do not like Bush, and all he and his 'cronies' stand for.

The USA really has nothing to prove.

The US political structure, though not identical, is actually very similar to that of the UK.
You have the Republicans, our equivelant is the Conservatives. We have Labour, you have the Democrats.
And ultimately, when you look at what the two different views stand for, it's almost identical.
The difference is, in the UK, the Conservatives (the 'Republicans') have been voted out, and are a looooong way off getting voted in again.
The people have seen through their self centred, jingoistic ways, and can see that their beliefs are out-dated and wrong.
In the 80's, we had a war with Argentina over the Falkland Islands, people actually cheered the sinking of the Belgrano (a huge Argentinian warship that was fired upon and sunk outside of the designated combat zone, causing more than 200 deaths), it was a 'one up' a ' mark for Britain' Margaret Thatcher (Conservative leader/Prime Minister at the time) had put us 'back on the world map' Rolling Eyes

She got voted in again for a second term because of this, no doubt about it. People loved the world attention, the 'coming together' of war, the beating of an enemy. It all seems very similar when conpared to today's 'War on terror'.
Is it entirely impossible that this all could be Bush's motive? A good war does wonders for a leaders popularity, "We are the USA!! We are number one, stick with me etc"
In terms of voters, there will always be the patriotic (regardless of facts) amongst us who buy this stuff.
Today's (normal) British society looks back at the Belgrano incident and cringes. There was no glory in that, we had a better, more equiped army, and used dirty tactics to further our cause. Ok. it's true that a British territory was invaded, and retaliation was inevitable, but the line was crossed. A similar line could be drawn with the whole Iraq thing.

In the modern age, as the world shrinks, people have realised that regardless of what country you are from, we all have one planet to live on, humans are humans, and there seems to be a leaning towards peace, except, unfortunately, in the US.
Ok, there is a terrorism problem, but you only have to look at Riotnrrd's fantastic post to see the actual statistics as to how threatened we all really are.
The problem is the terrorist thing has been switched into a vote winner, regardless of life.

Would Kerry and team sort it all out? Probably not.
Are they more likely to listen to (the worlds) public opinion? I reckon so.

I hope the US public wont view the election campaign as only important and relevant to the States, that is a blind point of view.

Odinmoon · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:44 am Post subject:

Now thats how I like to see posts.

One thing about this subject is it attracted 1557 people viewing. Thats what I call a Hot topic. Wink

regards Terry
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GregC · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject:

"I think there is a common misconception within certain quarters of the US public that attacks on Bush are attacks on America.
This simply isn't true. "

Londonlad- I understand what you are saying, and I don't think you need to be concerned. That is the misconception that the Bush administration
festers into the media and speeches. People believe what they want to believe. It is wierd, but it appears there is blind faith of supporters of Bush, thus I, and other columnists call them the Bush Zombies
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jazlover · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:51 pm Post subject:

Read the first page of this post.

RiotNrrd · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:34 pm Post subject:

Cooperation or more understanding among musicians who use a Triton.

Well... this IS the "Off Topic" section, after all... Smile

Odinmoon · Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:09 pm Post subject:

Jazlover wrote