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reddone
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 425
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: New TubeS ?? |
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Just in case u hav'nt read the KNOBS post ...
I've been checking out some other 12Ax7 range tubes on this site :
http://www.banzaieffects.com/Tubes-c-250.html
Considering that We have the Ł6 tubes in the Ax7 range , i presume that
The Ł30 (each) Ax7's will offer different tonal qaulities to out "cheap" tubes .
Read what it says beside each tube and workout for yourself if you think they are with investing in . They HAVE to be Ax7 range tho so bare that in mind . All pin layouts are the same . |
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reddone
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 425
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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These sound as though they are worth upgrading to ...
12AX7 / ECC83 Tungsol Matched & Balanced
SKU: SKU15008
Matched & Balanced Premium quality tube.
Tungsol Tube, reissue from original design.
This 12AX7 is the Ultimate 12AX7. Big, warm, and musical. High Gain, ultra-low microphonics, and superb linearity with a dynamic 3-D sound
http://www.banzaieffects.com/Tung-Sol-c-281.html
And ...
Groove Tubes 12AX7M
Reissue of original Mullard design.
The new GT12AX7M is as close to an exact reissue of the original Mullard 12AX7/ECC83 dual triode preamp tube as we could develop. Some people feel this is one of the ultimate vintage 12AX7 tubes. The Groove Tubes 12AX7M is a dual-triode vacuum tube based on the highly sought after Mullard 12AX7, which went out of production in the late 60's.
Its unique triple mica design reduces tube hum and microphonics, and gives performance stability under the most demanding conditions, such as high gain tube guitar amps sitting on 4x12 cabs.
This tube delivers rich, harmonically complex tone and midrange warmth that is just not available in any other currently manufactured tube today.
The new 12AX7M is an excellent choice as a replacement tube for any amplifier design using a 12AX7, ECC83, or 7025 preamp tube. “Of course, the real test is how it sounds,” continued Pittman. “Our new 12AX7M will really ‘wake up' an old (or new) Fender, Ampeg, or Marshall tube amp!”
http://www.banzaieffects.com/Groove-Tubes-c-530.html |
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Ruso
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 984
Location: Sammamish, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| indeed they are, it's the next best sound quality improvement next to putting the electribe through a comrpessor... it also helps get rid of most of that background hiss noise at high volumes... |
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reddone
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 425
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Yeah , man . I thought that they would provide a little more compression .
I presume that we'd have to get the "matched & balanced" , or maybe not . Or will all Ax7 be the same ? What do they mean by microphonics though? Does that mean when u hear that kinda metalic Buzz or fizzing ?
I find that when i make bassy sounds , sometimes i hear the odd fusing kinda sound . Either way , i dont think new tubes do do any harm , as long as their Ax7's of some sort .
Ruso , if you have a look around , let us know what you think mite be most suitable . Cheers |
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Ruso
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 984
Location: Sammamish, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have not replaced my tubes but I've been arround a lot of discussion and there are a LOT of options....
another thing about them being matched or not, my tubes on the esx were not matched and not callibrated, but there's a utility within the esx to tune the tubes....
paul might have a better understanding of what's better for tubes... what I know is what I've seen other people do and the result, I don't talk to those people any more so I'm not sure what to sudgest but I believe it has been brought on this forum before... |
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reddone
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 425
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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I think this tube thing is simple enough .... kinda !
Its basically a matter of thinking about the way you want the tubes to affect your sound , and picking one that is of a high qaulity and is a 12Ax7 spec tube .
Personally , i'm thinking more of the "Groove Tubes 12AX7M" .
To an idea on how tubes work , and about GrOoVe Tubes then ...
http://www.groovetubes.com/tubes_w16.cfm
Other than that there are Loads of tubes out there , so its up to u really .
In the run up to the MX release , the article in Korgs brochure mentioned " Dual Electro Harmonix Matched & Balanced 12Ax7 tubes" , and i'm sure in the manual it says that also .
Any dealer should be able to tell you what will be best for "Phono" application .
Just make sure u get them in there "safely" . u dont want to waste that money , its not light bulbs boys !?
P.S .... My lights behind the tubes are nearly dead , they are going to need re-placed anyway so , i was thinking of having them All done . Yes even the ones behind the screen . But only if Korg UK will do it .
Red would be my preffered choice , but i'll have to see if i can get the right colour . YES , i Know im crazy, but i love it  LOL |
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musikmachine
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:38 am Post subject: |
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If you get the tube will you let us know how they sound and how it goes?If it's worth doing i'll do it but i haven't messed with tube before so i could probably use some help if i decide to get some 
I'm glad to hear that they can get rid of the background hiss as that is an issue a lot of people seem to have and it would be nice to put the emx through some proper tubes 
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TweakMaster oo
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Amen!  |
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reddone
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 425
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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GREAT NEWS GUYS !!
I've just came off the fone to korg UK , and they tell me that we CAN put BETTER Ax7's in our MX/SX's , no problem !!
I'm told that Korg themselves dont put any parts into their gear that isnt official , but the guy said that its easy for us to do ourselves with little risk , just be careful thats about it .
ive studied this tube thing enough to know that for our best overall performance bet is "groove tubes GT12AX7M " ,
as i read " This tube delivers harmonically complex tone and midrange warmth that is just not available in any other manufactured tube" !!!
Now that sounds like the BIZ-NIZ dont you think ? I bet the price is worth it . I read their site and Trust them the most .
Thats one good option and "Tung-sol 12AX7 / ECC83 Tungsol Matched & Balanced " are another and are still better than ours but only half the price of the groove tubes .
I read " This 12AX7 is the Ultimate 12AX7. Big, warm, and musical. High Gain, ultra-low microphonics, and superb linearity with a dynamic 3-D sound " , sound good yeah ?
Email : M.foster@korg.co.uk ( service dept ) , if u need assistance , but he is a busy guy so just use your head a little and mail if ur strugglin' .
Cant wait to get mine ..... |
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anselmi
Full Member
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 184
Location: montevideo, uruguay
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: |
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i was wonder what happens if you change the tubes...i´m really happy to found kinda answer from you
please let us know if you succesfully change the tubes by the groovetubes ones and if theny performs better than the original EH
mines are really unmatched, with kinda 1 dB of difference between them |
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reddone
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 425
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Yeah , my MX tubes sounded a little unmatched when i got my machine too . But , from what i read , getting "perfectly" matched tubes is pretty impossibe . Although Groove tubes claim to a better balance , so i'm going with them . I get mine on saturday so i'll give the verdict then .
keep in mind tho that the tubes will not change the sound engine , but they have the potential to take the tone to another level .
But ... i'm keepimg my old fuzzy tubes too , as they give some sounds a distinct presence , and certain bass's sound devastatingly raw n fuzzy .
They just have that worn sound , but that does'nt work for all my noize hence getting Groove tubes .
I'll keep everyone posted . |
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anselmi
Full Member
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 184
Location: montevideo, uruguay
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| reddone3 wrote: | | But ... i'm keepimg my old fuzzy tubes too , as they give some sounds a distinct presence , and certain bass's sound devastatingly raw n fuzzy. They just have that worn sound , but that does'nt work for all my noize hence getting Groove tubes |
well, they´re electro-harmonix after all, the kind of s**t all guitarists die for!!! 
put the groovetubes in, but make a bridge to the tubes contacts and connect it to a port in a side of the electribe
then you could make a box (conected to that port) with different tubes inside and a selector to change the tubes without disasemble them from the chasis...kinda the filter cartridge rack on the studio electronics ATC-1 |
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paul_courville
Full Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 189
Location: Tijuana, Mexico (Party Town USA!)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Ruso wrote: | I have not replaced my tubes but I've been arround a lot of discussion and there are a LOT of options....
another thing about them being matched or not, my tubes on the esx were not matched and not callibrated, but there's a utility within the esx to tune the tubes....
paul might have a better understanding of what's better for tubes... what I know is what I've seen other people do and the result, I don't talk to those people any more so I'm not sure what to sudgest but I believe it has been brought on this forum before... |
Microphonics describes the phenomenon where certain components in electronic devices transform mechanical vibrations into an undesired electrical signal (noise). The term is derived by analogy to older microphones where that behavior is inherent in the design, while with modern electronics it is sometimes an intentionally added effect.
When electronic equipment was built using vacuum tubes, microphonics used to be a very serious design problem. The charged elements in the vacuum tubes would vibrate and the motion would change the distance between the elements, producing charge flows in and out of the tube in a manner identical to a capacitor microphone. A system sufficiently susceptible to microphonics could experience feedback.
With the advent of solid state electronics (transistors), this major source of microphonics was eliminated but smaller sources still remain. The ceramic dielectrics used in high-K capacitors ("Z5U" and "X7R") are piezoelectric and will directly transform mechanical vibration into a voltage in exactly the same fashion as a ceramic microphone. Wiring and cables can also exhibit microphonics as charged conductors move around and various materials can develop triboelectric ("static") charges that couple to the electronic circuits.
The sound of guitar amplifiers, since they usually incorporate the electronic chassis into the same cabinet as the speaker, can be highly affected by microphonics. This is usually part of the special sound of a guitar amplifier, though a faulty vacuum tube or other component can cause out of control feedback. Unwanted microphonics-related audible distortions can often be alleviated by using commercially available vacuum tube dampers.
12AX7 is a miniature dual triode vacuum tube with high voltage gain. It is believed to have been originally developed in 1946 by RCA engineers in Harrison, New Jersey under developmental number A-4522. It was released for public sale under the 12AX7 identifier on September 15, 1947. The 12AX7 was originally intended as a miniature form-factor follow-on to the 6SL7 family of dual-triode amplifier tubes for audio applications. Its ongoing wide use in guitar amplifiers (see valve sound) has caused it to be one of the very few small-signal vacuum tubes to continue in production since it was introduced.
The tube has a center tapped filament so it can be used in either 6.3V 300mA or 12.6V 150mA heater circuits.
Contents
1 History
2 Application
3 Twin-triode variations
4 References
History
The 12AX7 is basically two 6AV6 triodes in one package. The 6AV6 was a repackaging of the triode from the octal 6SQ7, which was very similar to the older type 75 triode-diode, dating from 1930.
Presently the 12AX7 is made in various versions by two factories in Russia (Winged C, formerly Svetlana, and New Sensor, which makes current production tubes under the Sovtek, Electro-Harmonix, Svetlana, Tung-Sol, and other brands for which the firm has acquired trademark rights), one in China (Shanguang), one in Slovakia (JJ), and one in Serbia (EI Niš), for a total annual production figure of 2 million units (estimated). The vast majority are used in new-production guitar amplifiers or for replacement purposes in guitar or audio equipment.
Application
The 12AX7 is a high-gain, low plate current triode. As such it is best suited for low-level audio amplification. In this role it is widely used for the input and mid-level stages of audio amplifiers. With its high Miller capacitance, it is not suitable for radio-frequency use.
Typically a 12AX7 triode is configured with a high-value plate resistor, 100k ohms in most guitar amps and 220k ohms or more in high-fidelity equipment. Grid bias and some negative feedback are often provided by a cathode resistor. In this mode each half of a 12AX7 can provide a voltage gain of about 60.
Twin-triode variations
The 12AX7 was the most common member of what eventually became a huge family of twin-triode vacuum tubes, manufactured all over the world, all sharing the same pinout (EIA 9A). Most used a 150 mA heater which could also be connected to run on 6.3V at 300 mA. The variations include the 12AT7, 12AU7, 12AV7, and the low-voltage 12U7, plus many 4-digit EIA series dual triodes too numerous to mention. The variations span a wide range of voltage gain, ruggedness, and transconductance.
Some variants offered lower gain (traded off for higher plate current) than the 12AX7 (which had a voltage gain or Av of 100), for high-frequency applications. Others offered improved resistance to microphonics or were modified for specialized applications, such as digital computers.
Some American variants of the 12AX7:
12AD7 (October 10, 1955 - 225mA heater - low hum)
12AT7 (May 20, 1947, dual 6AB4, Av = 60)
12AU7 (October 18, 1946 dual 6C4, Av = 17-20)
12AV7 (February 14, 1950 - dual 6BC4, Av = 37-41)
12AX7 (September 15, 1947 - like miniature 6SL7, Av = 100)
12AY7 (December 7 1948 - Av = 44, for audio preamp use)
12AZ7 (March 2, 1951 - 225mA heater, Av = 60)
12DF7 (Av = 100, low microphonics)
12DT7 (Av = 100)
12U7 (Av = 20, for use in automotive radios on 12-volt plate supply)
Although commonly known in Europe by its Mullard-Philips tube designation of ECC83, other European variations also existed including the low-noise versions 12AX7A, 12AD7, 6681, 7025, and 7729; European versions B339, B759, CV492, CV4004, CV8156, CV8222, ECC803, ECC803S, E2164, and M8137; and the lower-gain low-noise versions 5751 and 6851, intended for avionics equipment.
It is interesting to note that the 'E' in the European designation explicitly classified this as having a 6.3 volt heater, whereas the American designation of 12AX7 explicitly classified it as having a 12.6 volt heater. It can, of course, be wired for either operation.
The 12AX7's popularity has made a complete cataloging of all manufactured variations impossible. In past decades, versions were known to be made in the USA, Canada, virtually every European country, Australia, Japan, India, Argentina, Chile, Brazil, China, USSR, and possibly in other places. 12AX7s are still being made in Russia, China, Slovakia and Serbia.
12AX7 is a miniature dual triode vacuum tube with high voltage gain. It is believed to have been originally developed in 1946 by RCA engineers in Harrison, New Jersey under developmental number A-4522. It was released for public sale under the 12AX7 identifier on September 15, 1947. The 12AX7 was originally intended as a miniature form-factor follow-on to the 6SL7 family of dual-triode amplifier tubes for audio applications. Its ongoing wide use in guitar amplifiers (see valve sound) has caused it to be one of the very few small-signal vacuum tubes to continue in production since it was introduced.
The tube has a center tapped filament so it can be used in either 6.3V 300mA or 12.6V 150mA heater circuits.
Contents
1 History
2 Application
3 Twin-triode variations
4 References
History
The 12AX7 is basically two 6AV6 triodes in one package. The 6AV6 was a repackaging of the triode from the octal 6SQ7, which was very similar to the older type 75 triode-diode, dating from 1930.
Presently the 12AX7 is made in various versions by two factories in Russia (Winged C, formerly Svetlana, and New Sensor, which makes current production tubes under the Sovtek, Electro-Harmonix, Svetlana, Tung-Sol, and other brands for which the firm has acquired trademark rights), one in China (Shanguang), one in Slovakia (JJ), and one in Serbia (EI Niš), for a total annual production figure of 2 million units (estimated). The vast majority are used in new-production guitar amplifiers or for replacement purposes in guitar or audio equipment.
Application
The 12AX7 is a high-gain, low plate current triode. As such it is best suited for low-level audio amplification. In this role it is widely used for the input and mid-level stages of audio amplifiers. With its high Miller capacitance, it is not suitable for radio-frequency use.
Typically a 12AX7 triode is configured with a high-value plate resistor, 100k ohms in most guitar amps and 220k ohms or more in high-fidelity equipment. Grid bias and some negative feedback are often provided by a cathode resistor. In this mode each half of a 12AX7 can provide a voltage gain of about 60.
Twin-triode variations
The 12AX7 was the most common member of what eventually became a huge family of twin-triode vacuum tubes, manufactured all over the world, all sharing the same pinout (EIA 9A). Most used a 150 mA heater which could also be connected to run on 6.3V at 300 mA. The variations include the 12AT7, 12AU7, 12AV7, and the low-voltage 12U7, plus many 4-digit EIA series dual triodes too numerous to mention. The variations span a wide range of voltage gain, ruggedness, and transconductance.
Some variants offered lower gain (traded off for higher plate current) than the 12AX7 (which had a voltage gain or Av of 100), for high-frequency applications. Others offered improved resistance to microphonics or were modified for specialized applications, such as digital computers.
Some American variants of the 12AX7:
12AD7 (October 10, 1955 - 225mA heater - low hum)
12AT7 (May 20, 1947, dual 6AB4, Av = 60)
12AU7 (October 18, 1946 dual 6C4, Av = 17-20)
12AV7 (February 14, 1950 - dual 6BC4, Av = 37-41)
12AX7 (September 15, 1947 - like miniature 6SL7, Av = 100)
12AY7 (December 7 1948 - Av = 44, for audio preamp use)
12AZ7 (March 2, 1951 - 225mA heater, Av = 60)
12DF7 (Av = 100, low microphonics)
12DT7 (Av = 100)
12U7 (Av = 20, for use in automotive radios on 12-volt plate supply)
Although commonly known in Europe by its Mullard-Philips tube designation of ECC83, other European variations also existed including the low-noise versions 12AX7A, 12AD7, 6681, 7025, and 7729; European versions B339, B759, CV492, CV4004, CV8156, CV8222, ECC803, ECC803S, E2164, and M8137; and the lower-gain low-noise versions 5751 and 6851, intended for avionics equipment.
It is interesting to note that the 'E' in the European designation explicitly classified this as having a 6.3 volt heater, whereas the American designation of 12AX7 explicitly classified it as having a 12.6 volt heater. It can, of course, be wired for either operation.
The 12AX7's popularity has made a complete cataloging of all manufactured variations impossible. In past decades, versions were known to be made in the USA, Canada, virtually every European country, Australia, Japan, India, Argentina, Chile, Brazil, China, USSR, and possibly in other places. 12AX7s are still being made in Russia, China, Slovakia and Serbia.
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"Secret to Electribes: push all the buttons, turn all the knobs, record what sounds good!" |
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reddone
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 425
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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A tube SELECTOR box Anselmi !!!
I like it , alot !!!
I think Ruso or paul could probaly put that togethr no bother , or even Ultra ( he's building a 909 clone !! ) .
So guys ( ruso , paul , Ultra ) what do u think ? |
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reddone
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 425
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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... And Paul ... ur definatly tubed up , lol  |
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