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BlackForest Full Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2020 Posts: 210 Location: German, Black Forest
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:30 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if us Kronos users will profit from a software update, or new free sounds, at least the Italian F piano... Ah well, probably not. _________________ Kronos 2-88 & X73, Kurzweil MicroPiano, Spitfire Albion V Tundra, BBCO Core, Nylon Guitar Ilya Efimov, Xtant Audio Uilleann Pipes - in use
Korg DS-8, Roland D-10, M1Rex, Wavestation, Korg SP-280, JV2080, Wavestate, Kronos LS - all RIP |
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Broadwave Platinum Member
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 1118 Location: Manchester UK
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:43 am Post subject: |
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BlackForest wrote: | I wonder if us Kronos users will profit from a software update, or new free sounds, at least the Italian F piano... Ah well, probably not. |
It does look like Korg tweaked the graphic interface for the Nautilus - I just wonder that, if the OS is basically the same as the current Kronos, where can the Nautilus go as far as upgrades are concerned? _________________ Synth DIY Projects |
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Kontrol49 Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 1280
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:51 am Post subject: |
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GregC wrote: | Kontrol49 wrote: | I'd welcome this synth if its basically all the engines of the Kronos without all the other crap(Karma/Audio/Midi Sequencer)
s. |
LOL
anything else you don't use ? |
I'd be happy to ditch the Keyboard Workstation Hardware in general,if Korg Decided to make a Nautilus Rack Module,its one less Board to gig with.. _________________ --Korg Nautilus~~Korg Modwave--Korg SV-1-Korg Wavestate-- |
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Kevin Nolan Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 2524 Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:25 am Post subject: |
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When you consider that you're getting the capabilities of an OASYS / Kronos, less the Karma engine, in a bang up to date package and extra features for a minute fraction of the cost of the original OASYS, you can't complain.
Let's not for get the sonic depth of the engines on board.
If this is Korg's "X50 / M3 / N1" moment for Kronos and OASYS - I'll take it all day - because - if I can't make astounding music from an instrument like this, the issue isn't the instrument.
I hope it means Korg are also, behinds the scenes, planning their next moves in the workstation market too; their 'Montage' or 'Fantom'. Given that they've released this, I fully expect they are.
They're revisiting Wavesequencing and even FM - in new packages -today! So it looks liket hey have faith in the future of formats we thought were gone for good!
I like the idea that this might be a budget-package version of the Kronos - because the Kronos is so stunningly capable and so is this - not not only for this reason - because it suggests that Korg haven't abandoned the workstation as a format.
Interesting development - and as an OASYS owner I may well look to one of these as a 'synthesizer engine' backup - but we'll surely increasingly see good 'package deals on Kronos' too if Korg are to pursue their long standing marketing tactics.
It is, genuinely, a real pity that it does not support Karma.
Karma needs a second life - it's arguably the most 'gargantuan' MIDI rhythm engine ever designed, with _endless_ capabilities, and it would be wonderful to see Karma get a second life at its spiritual home of Korg. Let's hope Stephen Kay and Korg are talking / exploring for such a future - perhaps in software, ... - part of Gadget?? |
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entonio
Joined: 19 Sep 2020 Posts: 37
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Meh. To me it looks like a budget package of what the new flagship should be.
Usability-wise, it's the much-needed Kronos update. It's also got up to date sounds. But feature-wise, it's not the latest and grandest.
But I'm not getting my hopes high. I don't think they'd launch this and THEN provide a new flagship later on - unless the new flagship is 'just' a Kronos 3 with all the improvements of the Nautilus. Come to think of it, that might make sense and be close to what we've been asking all along.
It's a given that either the Kronos will get these improvements or it will disappear - the current version will look very dated when compared to the Nautilus. It's still got the edge on looks tho. I don't see the resemblance between the new Korg and its mollusk namesake. |
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Kevin Nolan Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 2524 Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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A new workstation won't be a new Kronos.
They've moved on! This is revenue gathering from an existing technology - but uniquely - I don't think this is a 'meh' moment. Tell me - how much do you understand MOD-7 - a semi-modular digital environment with 600 oscillators and the ability to take on the likes of the Montage or the Virus TI? One of 9 engines.
Your "meh" will be the creative 'making' of other artists. This isn't an N1 or M3 - it's something very different and incredibly powerful, with few if any compromises, at a knock-down price.
But my point - it shows Korg _are_ following past trends, currently.
I had my doubts about their future in the workstation market - but the workstation concept has moved on to something new as exemplified by the Fantom and I'd wager Krog are working on something similar. It won't be Kronos, but it will be significant. |
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Lightbringer Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 356 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Kevin Nolan wrote: |
It is, genuinely, a real pity that it does not support Karma.
Karma needs a second life - it's arguably the most 'gargantuan' MIDI rhythm engine ever designed, with _endless_ capabilities, and it would be wonderful to see Karma get a second life at its spiritual home of Korg. Let's hope Stephen Kay and Korg are talking / exploring for such a future - perhaps in software, ... - part of Gadget?? |
Totally agree!
For me the single best thing that could happen to Karma would be to marry the full programming interface to the instrument rather than having it be an external piece of software. I try hard to avoid the frustration of involving a general purpose computer in my music workflow. So for me having to boot up and connect a PC to make a fully custom performance means I don’t use Karma to the extent that I would if everything was built into the instrument. |
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SeedyLee Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 1379 Location: Perth, Australia
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Just watched the loopop video review and was pretty underwhelmed as a Kronos owner. The only new features I saw were the arpeggiator, set list scenes and a dynamics knob. Everything else looks either the same as the Kronos, or inferior. Lack of a value slider, combined with the resistive touch screen, looks painful.
I do wonder what hardware it’s running inside though. According to the parameter guide it still has a fan. Funnily enough, the parameter guide still refers to KRONOS in quite a few places! _________________ Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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narkosys
Joined: 13 Mar 2017 Posts: 25
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I just checked the Korg site this morning and thankfully the 88 Key version uses the RH3 key bed. _________________ Kronos2 88, UR22 MkII, Faderport 8 |
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jimknopf Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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As I posted in the Kronos forum: this is massively underwhelming!It is nothing more than one further of the recent years long Kronos repackaging efforts (from new colours to the Grandstage) by the actual Korg management, without any remarkable overall concept update.
It offers only two slight OS-improvements:
- one slightly updated engine
- a slightly updated sequencer, not really up to date, but with somewhat better overview and editing.
But the lower price comes with some massive downgrades from the Kronos level:
- a sad joke of a completely insufficient controller interface for live play (and even unnerving in the home studio), still with an outdated capacitative display.
That means among others:
- no vector joystick
- no sliders for B3 play
- no alphanumeric field
- even some of the most basic things require touchscreen use with menu diving.
On top of all that:
- no aftertouch
- a poor man's arpeggiator instead of KARMA
That's no workstation any longer, but some stagepiano with more sounds.
Else it seems to be the same 10 year old hardware concept with 2Gb RAM limit, with a bit more than 700Mb streaming headers left for sampling libraries, like in the Kronos. This all seems to indicate, that we are still facing some old (Intel Atom?) CPU with a 32bit OS. As somone wrote, his cheap Chinese 200$ pad offers a much faster and better processor than that.
I begin to ask myself not only, when the actual Korg management has begun to work on a Kronos successor concept, but rather, if they have begun doing that at all up to now? Maybe we could wait another 5-10 years for anything worth calling a Kronos successor? In the meantime the world would go on and leave them completely behind. _________________ Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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SeedyLee Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 1379 Location: Perth, Australia
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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jimknopf wrote: | As I posted in the Kronos forum: this is massively underwhelming!It is nothing more than one further of the recent years long Kronos repackaging efforts (from new colours to the Grandstage) by the actual Korg management, without any remarkable overall concept update.
It offers only two slight OS-improvements:
- one slightly updated engine
- a slightly updated sequencer, not really up to date, but with somewhat better overview and editing.
But the lower price comes with some massive downgrades from the Kronos level:
- a sad joke of a completely insufficient controller interface for live play (and even unnerving in the home studio), still with an outdated capacitative display.
That means among others:
- no vector joystick
- no sliders for B3 play
- no alphanumeric field
- even some of the most basic things require touchscreen use with menu diving.
On top of all that:
- no aftertouch
- a poor man's arpeggiator instead of KARMA
That's no workstation any longer, but some stagepiano with more sounds.
Else it seems to be the same 10 year old hardware concept with 2Gb RAM limit, with a bit more than 700Mb streaming headers left for sampling libraries, like in the Kronos. This all seems to indicate, that we are still facing some old (Intel Atom?) CPU with a 32bit OS. As somone wrote, his cheap Chinese 200$ pad offers a much faster and better processor than that.
I begin to ask myself not only, when the actual Korg management has begun to work on a Kronos successor concept, but rather, if they have begun doing that at all up to now? Maybe we could wait another 5-10 years for anything worth calling a Kronos successor? In the meantime the world would go on and leave them completely behind. |
I think I missed it - which engine is updated, and in what way has the sequencer been improved? The only sequencer improvement I caught was that now it automatically saves when powering off. _________________ Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A
Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One |
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leonh Full Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 228 Location: Hadleigh UK
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:56 pm Post subject: Nautilus |
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Nice no Karma though price vise not really Modx competition. |
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Narioso Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015 Posts: 300 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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jimknopf wrote: |
- no sliders for B3 play
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Would be possible to do visually in touch screen, I think.
Good way to do it as well, each preset can show current position right away.
Just press and drag with fingers to move drawbars.
But if they did this, no clue.
If there ever is a workstation that competes with computer in the way that at least 32, or rather 64 audio tracks - I might have a look.
Currently there is only Behringer Wing that competes, and can do 64 audio tracks on SD-card. Probably everything you need for recording if having synths and stuff as hardware..
Coming from portastudio world, I will never get a windows 10 machine when current daw dies and rather look at alternatives. _________________ MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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KORG, thanks for coming to this meeting. We've all been great fans of your work so far. MS-20, Kronos, you name it, you've done great work. Maybe not a hit every time, but your track record is way up there.
But today we have to talk about the Nautilus. Do you see why this might be?
No?
Let me share some ideas with you. Do you remember some of the major features of the Kronos? Does Karma ring a bell? How about faders that could be used as organ drawbar equivalents? Aftertouch, maybe? Oh, I know, there was that low-rent Kronos that didn't have it, but as we all know, Kronos came out of the gate with aftertouch.
All right, now what about differentiating features in something else? How about the little brother in the middle of the pack, the Krome? What was perhaps the one feature in the Krome that people kept clamouring for in the Kronos?
No?
Let me help you: piano roll. Direct, detailed, per-note editing. Oh yes, we all know that step editing is a thing, but piano roll is too.
So now let's turn to the Nautilus. What does it cost? Bottom line, the lowest in the range, street price - two thousand dollars. And what do we get? A few sound engines, a few effects engines, a sequencer with arpeggiation, but neither piano roll nor aftertouch. I started to wonder, what else could I do with that money, KORG? What do you think?
I started to do my sums, and I think that for that money, I could buy an MPC One. Yes, it's not a KORG product, is it? But it has a multitouch screen, and great sampling capabilities. What else? No keyboard? Well, for not a lot more money I can get an 88 key MIDI keyboard with aftertouch. Still under the cost of the lowest-end Nautilus. What else? Need more engines? There's still money in the budget for a Blofeld, or a couple of Roland Boutiques, or even a Reface or two. In fact, I could even have a few Volcas. All in the same budget, KORG.
And I'd have more keys, better sampling, stronger interface, more controls, and perhaps enough money left in the budget for a hamburger lunch.
If you want to take it up to the price of the 88 key version, it just gets deeper and better. Effects units, breath controllers, why not? The money's in the budget, KORG.
And we're not even talking about a laptop and controller yet - we'll just assume that we're not interested in computers in a hardware studio.
Now, KORG, I want you to think very hard about what you've done. I want you to really search your heart and ask yourself this question: was your time well spent, KORG?
Was your time well spent? |
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jimknopf Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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SeedyLee wrote: |
I think I missed it - which engine is updated, and in what way has the sequencer been improved? The only sequencer improvement I caught was that now it automatically saves when powering off. |
I think I read somewhere that the Piano engine was slightly updated (Korg calls it "enhanced" on their Webpage, and says it has more different piano content than ever before), and that the sequencer was slightly updated as well (though again not with Piano roll): the Korg page calls it "new" without being specific.
@Narioso
Moving drawbar sliders is neither a good haptic way on a touch screen, nor does it work well on the kind of oldfashioned capacitative screen the Nautilus uses.
What they did, was cost cutting in a way, that does not make much sense. You get sliders and pads in any little cheap controller keyboard nowadays. But you are supposed to get by without any of that in something as controller-hungry as a mighty Kronos synth with 9 sound engines?
Whoever designed that concept was as whack and far away from real life synth keyboard use IMHO, as the actual Korg Japan management aproving it seems to be. They will still sell some of these to people who just want the Kronos sounds at a lower price, but skilled keyboarders will see all the really heavy downsides and probably decide otherwise. _________________ Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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